Report: Brady tried to push Belichick out for Bill O'Brien

[Ian]

Seriously! I don’t want to remember any of that. I won’t read those posts and why should I? I’m looking forward to the future and I’m very encouraged.

That one remains a nightmare that I don't think I'll ever get over. Every once in a while we'll go out to eat and NFL Network will have it on and it just drives me bonkers...just awful. And I remember when that report came out the Saturday before (if I recall correctly) and players went on to say years later that it was definitely recognized by the guys in the locker room even though they all tried to ignore it. Obviously, we know it turned out to be false but the damage is done and the end result was what it was...but it still sucks.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

We can debate the details and where it wasn't perfect, but he did enough in each game (and more than enough in others) for them to win those titles. No QB goes out and throws for 500-yards and 6 touchdowns in each Super Bowl because they're facing the team that was also the best in their conference. That's why so many of these, save for a few, are typically hard-fought close games. But great players find ways to win, and that's what he did for us six times.

Period.

When your offense averages 38 points per game in 2007 and you end up only scoring 14 points, while your defense averaged 17 points and only gave up 17 points, the game is on the offense period. The defense met its expectations, while the offense was about 3 touchdowns below its expectations. It's lunacy to put the blame on Bill for the Giants last touchdown drives in SB 42 and 46. As you said, in the SB, you are facing the top team from the other conference and so the expectation is they are going to put up points.

 

[Ian]

When your offense averages 38 points per game in 2007 and you end up only scoring 14 points, while your defense averaged 17 points and only gave up 17 points, the game is on the offense period. The defense met its expectations, while the offense was about 3 touchdowns below its expectations. It's lunacy to put the blame on Bill for the Giants last touchdown drives in SB 42 and 46. As you said, in the SB, you are facing the top team from the other conference and so the expectation is they are going to put up points.

I get it - but you're focusing on one game and not the whole, while also leaving out a key detail that likely didn't help things.

And it's not like Brady fell apart. He drove them 80-yards on 12 plays down the field for the go-ahead score, which left 2:39 remaining on the clock. Instead, the Giants put a drive together and the defense couldn't come up with another stop (helmet catch, Seymour...ugh). That left Brady with :29 to try and pull off a miracle.

That's just ridiculous. So you've got to let that one go, and shame on you for making me have to dig that back out and re-live it in my brain again.

 

[Ian]

@MAC10

 

[TheRainMaker]

When your offense averages 38 points per game in 2007 and you end up only scoring 14 points, while your defense averaged 17 points and only gave up 17 points, the game is on the offense period. The defense met its expectations, while the offense was about 3 touchdowns below its expectations. It's lunacy to put the blame on Bill for the Giants last touchdown drives in SB 42 and 46. As you said, in the SB, you are facing the top team from the other conference and so the expectation is they are going to put up points.

Imagine the defense saying to the offense after giving up a TD on the last drive of the game, "well... if you would've scored more points, we would've won the game"!

Also, the offense was terrible against the Chargers two weeks earlier, but that's not mentioned because the defense didn't allow a comeback.

The defense was also awful in 2006 AFCCG.

 

[Ian]

Imagine the defense saying to the offense after giving up a TD on the last drive of the game, "well... if you would've scored more points, we would've won the game"!

Also, the offense was terrible against the Chargers two weeks earlier, but that's not mentioned because the defense didn't allow a comeback.

The defense was also awful in 2006 AFCCG.

In fairness, the defense also had the flu in that 2006 game and most of the team was sick. That's also one of the things that gets lost and that year was frustrating because despite all their shortcomings, they were still in a position to win it all and had they been healthy, they likely wouldn't have lost that lead and they would have wiped the floor with the Bears for probably the only non-stressful Super Bowl we would have witnessed.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I get it - but you're focusing on one game and not the whole, while also leaving out a key detail that likely didn't help things.

And it's not like Brady fell apart. He drove them 80-yards on 12 plays down the field for the go-ahead score, which left 2:39 remaining on the clock. Instead, the Giants put a drive together and the defense couldn't come up with another stop (helmet catch, Seymour...ugh). That left Brady with :29 to try and pull off a miracle.

That's just ridiculous. So you've got to let that one go, and shame on you for making me have to dig that back out and re-live it in my brain again.

The Tomase report didn't help, but neither did Brady's laughing at Plaxico suggestion that the offense was only going to score 17 points. If you are going to diminish your opponent before the game, you'd better show up. That had a bigger effect on the game than most people think. And yeah there were only 29 seconds left to pull off a miracle, but the Pats had 3 timeouts left. It's not an impossible feat. Mahomes did it this past year against the Bills with 13 seconds left.

 

[TheRainMaker]

In fairness, the defense also had the flu in that 2006 game and most of the team was sick. That's also one of the things that gets lost and that year was frustrating because despite all their shortcomings, they were still in a position to win it all and had they been healthy, they likely wouldn't have lost that lead and they would have wiped the floor with the Bears for probably the only non-stressful Super Bowl we would have witnessed.

There was also some momentum killing calls like the "face guarding" that got the Colts back in the game. I think Troy Brown got mauled by Marlin Jackson that wasn't called on the Pats last drive.

Brady also had a bad ankle sprain after the 2007 AFCCG and couldn't move during SB42 that some posters don't want to recognize.

 

[Ian]

The Tomase report didn't help, but neither did Brady's laughing at Plaxico suggestion that the offense was only going to score 17 points. If you are going to diminish your opponent before the game, you'd better show up. That had a bigger effect on the game than most people think. And yeah there were only 29 seconds left to pull off a miracle, but the Pats had 3 timeouts left. It's not an impossible feat. Mahomes did it this past year against the Bills with 13 seconds left.

Mahomes did it - but not against that Giants defense.

And that Tomase report was big, don't undervalue it. I get what Brady did leading up to it but it doesn't change the fact the guy did well down the stretch.

At the end of the day, the point was that you're trying to pick apart the losses while dismissing the wins. There's no argument to be made because the Lombardis are in the trophy case and the guy played well enough to win 6 championships here. It would be different if another QB had 3 and another had 4 and another had 5 over that span. But there isn't one. So trying to diminish that accomplishment - and make all of us relive that game again - isn't going to change that.

And I'll say again:

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady also had a bad ankle sprain after the 2007 AFCCG and couldn't move during SB42 that some posters don't want to recognize.

Brady didn't pay well in the 2007 postseason period. He himself admitted as such in Man in the Arena.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Mahomes did it this past year against the Bills with 13 seconds left.

Different era.

The Tomase report didn't help, but neither did Brady's laughing at Plaxico suggestion that the offense was only going to score 17 points. If you are going to diminish your opponent before the game, you'd better show up.

He should've kept quiet given his injury.

That had a bigger effect on the game than people think.

Brady's injury and Stephen Neal's injury had more of an effect than words. You probably also didn't know Michael Strahan called a meeting between him, Osi and Tuck and said they were going to lose if they didn't play the game of their lives. Strahan feared they were going to get embarrassed.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Brady didn't pay well in the 2007 postseason period. He himself admitted as such in Man in the Arena.

He was fine against the Jags. Chargers had a really good D.

 

[Ian]

There was also some momentum killing calls like the "face guarding" that got the Colts back in the game. I think Troy Brown got mauled by Marlin Jackson that wasn't called on the Pats last drive.

Brady also had a bad ankle sprain after the 2007 AFCCG and couldn't move during SB42 that some posters don't want to recognize.

The other loss to the Giants included the dirty play by Pollard on Gronk in the AFCCG that killed them. The Patriots really had no business being in that game and they went on an unreal run, largely thanks to Brady's play down the stretch that season - albeit I believe the win over Baltimore wasn't his best game IIRC and he admitted it after. But if Pollard doesn't do Gronk dirty in that game, the outcome might have been different. He was unreal late in the year that season.

 

[Ian]

Brady didn't pay well in the 2007 postseason period. He himself admitted as such in Man in the Arena.

You realize that no other QB - aside from Manning or Eli (and big Ben) - won more than 2 over that span. I am right on that, correct? I didn't go to college and I wasn't a math major, but I feel like I'm accurate there...?

 

[TheRainMaker]

The Patriots really had no business being in that game and they went on an unreal run, largely thanks to Brady's play down the stretch that season

Not sure what you mean here as they were 13-3.

But if Pollard doesn't do Gronk dirty in that game, the outcome might have been different. He was unreal late in the year that season.

I'm confident with a healthy Gronk they beat the Giants.

 

[Ian]

Not sure what you mean here as they were 13-3.

That was during the regular season. There were some who felt they were going to have a tough time in the postseason and it was a surprise to many they blew out Denver and got past Baltimore. Ochocinco was a massive disappointment and there was doubt they had enough on offense in the passing game to go deep in the playoffs, with Gronk and Hernandez being the wild cards there.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You realize that no other QB - aside from Manning or Eli (and big Ben) - won more than 2 over that span. I am right on that, correct? I didn't go to college and I wasn't a math major, but I feel like I'm accurate there...?

Of course. It’s what happens if you work under the GOAT coach

 

[Ian]

Of course. It’s what happens if you work under the GOAT coach

LOL, finally, you and I reach an agreement on something. Albeit - it takes a smart, ubelievably talented QB to do it.

 

[Pape]

Bottom line is, posters on this board claim the Pats won their early Super Bowls based on defense. But when the defense can't stop a team on the final drive the excuse is "well, the offense didn't score enough".

And you dodged my earlier question regarding Malcolm Butler.

Bottom line, they would be correct.

The offense, after 2007 became the focal point of the team. Period.

as for Butler, it wasn't a dodge - it was a didn't see.

Bottom line, he did make the play. Your hypothetical point is moot.

Trying so hard to make everything good that happened be the result of Brady; and everything bad a failure of Bill ... maybe get a job for lens crafters? its so transparent...

 

[Ian]

Bottom line, they would be correct.

The offense, after 2007 became the focal point of the team. Period.

as for Butler, it wasn't a dodge - it was a didn't see.

Bottom line, he did make the play. Your hypothetical point is moot.

Trying so hard to make everything good that happened be the result of Brady; and everything bad a failure of Bill ... maybe get a job for lens crafters? its so transparent...

They were an unreal pair. Great coaching + Consistently Great QB play = 6 titles. Good coaching + Great QB play will win you 1 or 2 (see the Mannings, Roethlisberger, etc.) But we saw firsthand what great will get you here and it was an unreal 20-years that none of us who endured the 80s (late 80s for me) and 90s will ever forget.