Story on Patriots' documentary brings recent dysfunction to light

[Wozzy]

I remember how it actually happened. I remember that two games into the 2001 season the Patriots were 5-13 under Belichick and, going back to the end of the Pete Carroll days, 7-19 in their last 26 games. I remember that they were at the bottom of everyone's Power Rankings (or whatever they called Power Rankings in those days) and were widely viewed as having the worst roster in the NFL. They were unanimously viewed as having the worst offensive talent (and especially so by all the Drew Bledsoe apologists).
I remember Joel Buschbaum's article in Pro Football Weekly, from before the 2001 season, declaring the Patriots the least likely team to win a Super Bowl in the next five years, as voted on by NFL GMs and personnel heads.
And I remember the transformation in the team when Brady took over. I remember declaring after the San Diego game that that was the best game from a Patriots' quarterback that I had ever seen - and I go back to Babe Parilli as a fan. And I remember the incredible obtuseness of fans and media who were convinced Drew Bledsoe would be doing even better - obtuseness that obviously continues to this day.
Brady eventually put up great numbers in his career, but he had what made him great right from the beginning. Numbers don't tell the whole story of great QBs but here's one you should check out: drives in the 4th quarter and overtime to tie or take the lead. Compare Brady's numbers at the beginning of his career to, oh. say, Mac Jones'. You'll see the difference a great quarterback makes when playing with marginal offensive talent, even when he's not putting up big numbers.

Richard Seymour also started the season as a complete inactive, before coming off the bench, before eventually becoming a starter.

Brady completed 57% of his passes in his first three starts before averaging 67% the rest of the way.

The team played poorly before eventually playing better. Tom played better than Drew and did more not to lose the game than win it.

BB inherited Bledsoe, he drafted and developed Brady… Brady was his guy.

You say you remember, but it was a long time ago.

 

[Wozzy]

I wouldn't frame it as "He saved Bill's ass" more that if Drew didn't go down when he did and Brady didn't step in there's a very solid chance that Bill would be fired by the end of 2001 or at some point in 2002. Brady technically "saved" Bill in that sense but Bill saved himself by developing and carrying Brady on the roster his rookie year.

There’s also a solid chance BB switched to Brady anyway. Michael Holley in his book Patriot Reign said BB preferred Tom’s economical and efficient style of play to Bledsoe in camp.

My aim isn't to discredit Bill for the early super bowls but just to state that Brady wasn't just a passenger on the Bill train for the first 3. I won't argue Bill and the coaching staff deserve a ton of credit for finding and developing Brady into a top 5 quarterback. I just think that it gets neglected by some of the staunch pro-Bill crowd that he was a top 5 quarterback from 2002-2006 by most metics.

Yeah, nobody was a passenger. But judging from reports about this new documentary and players who feel duped by the producers… the architect of the entire thing, who drafted and developed Brady was a passenger.

By 2003-2004 Tom was easily top ten, that was years four and five. By 2007 he was the best QB in the league, but the whole thing was a journey and there was a lot of player development along the way.

If Tom gets drafted by a league doormat like the Cardinals, his prospects to succeed shrinks considerably. It was an entire team that improved, much the same way I’m sure BB learned and improved from his time in Cleveland where he was the youngest head coach in history to that point.

There was no BB versus Brady, it never happened. There was tension by 2019 from two decades of working together and the clear prospect that the team’s ring hopes were fading because they’d used up all their cap space and resource’s.

Tom was smart to leave, the Pats were smart to start over… something I said after 2019 before Tom even announced he was leaving.

 

[203Pat]

There’s also a solid chance BB switched to Brady anyway. Michael Holley in his book Patriot Reign said BB preferred Tom’s economical and efficient style of play to Bledsoe in camp.

Yeah, nobody was a passenger. But judging from reports about this new documentary and players who feel duped by the producers… the architect of the entire thing, who drafted and developed Brady was a passenger.

By 2003-2004 Tom was easily top ten, that was years four and five. By 2007 he was the best QB in the league, but the whole thing was a journey and there was a lot of player development along the way.

If Tom gets drafted by a league doormat like the Cardinals his prospects to succeed shrink massively. It was an entire team that improved, much the same way I’m sure BB learned and improved from his time in Cleveland where he was the youngest head coach in history to that point.

There was no BB versus Brady, it never happened. There was tension by 2019 from two decades of working together and the clear prospect that the team’s ring hopes were fading because they’d used up all their cap space and resource’s.

Bill may have pulled the plug on Drew but in all likelihood if would have been later in the season than week 2 and if that season/Drew was going the way it was they probably would have been out of playoff contention by the time Bill made the move. Maybe Brady would have came in and showed promise but even with the way things went that 2002 team still had flaws and didn't make the playoffs. I don't know if Bill realistically would have made the change early enough to save himself.

I have said it before I don’t think either one of them has 6 rings wings without the other one and I think things worked out pretty perfectly for both sides the first decade or so but Bill can't take credit for the success without taking credit for the demise of the dynasty. It was poor drafting and roster building down the stretch coupled with an inability to compromise in the slightest with Brady that ended things. Bill deserves a ton of credit, especially early on but, but he deserves a ton of blame for the state of the team and the deteriorating relationships over the last few years.

 

[BTTA]

Well then which is it?

A) Correlation does not imply causation, or
B) There is a direct relationship between the Patriots starting Tom Brady and the team's success

You are moving the goalposts and creating false choices. This conversation is about his first three years.
Brady was a contributor. That contribution grew over time. Same with many players.
By the time he got to 2004, he had grown a lot and was making a bigger contribution, for sure the biggest of any individual player. They won a title that year. They won again a decade later.

 

[XLIX]

You are moving the goalposts and creating false choices.

You're the one who brought "correlation does not imply causation" into the thread. Now you're running away from your own words. Perhaps because you know how silly you sound defending the indefensible?

This conversation is about his first three years.

Then I will happily rephrase the question. Have the courage to answer. Well then which is it?

A) Correlation does not imply causation, or
B) There is a direct relationship between the Patriots starting Tom Brady and the team's success from 2001-2003

 

[JohnJH]

I haven't seen the documentary yet, so I can't comment on its contents. That being said, regarding the current state of the team (ownership/personnel/coaching staff, etc.), to use a common line in every Star Wars movie "I have a bad feeling about this". I obviously hope that I'm wrong, however, there's a very real possibility that Patriots Fans could be watching a serious Fluster-Cluck for the next few years.

 

[Trocadile]

You say you remember, but it was a long time ago.

Oh, I don't know - I still remember the Golden Age of Mike Taliaferro pretty well.