Report: Brady tried to push Belichick out for Bill O'Brien

[sb1]

Got to disagree, they were pretty bad because they couldn't get off the field. Giants were converting 3rd down after 3rd down. The time of possession was almost 2:1 in the Giants favor.

Ditto with the 1st Super Bowl. They were terrible given the amount of missed opportunities for turnovers Eli and the Giants tried to give them.

Also the Giants had absolutely no running game. The worst ranked rushing offense in the league in 2011 and they still got 114 yards on us in the Super Bowl. Bradshaw was a sub 4 ypc running back and he had some nice runs including the game winning TD.

Spikes penalty also wiped out a fumble recovery that would have prevented a Giants TD.

The defense was bad that year. Pats were getting torched by guys like Dan Orlovsky Chad Henne and Vince Young. Even had some trouble against Tebow in Denver.

Eli Manning had a 74 rating in 2007. And beat us. Amazing.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Got to disagree, they were pretty bad because they couldn't get off the field. Giants were converting 3rd down after 3rd down. The time of possession was almost 2:1 in the Giants favor.

Ditto with the 1st Super Bowl. They were terrible given the amount of missed opportunities for turnovers Eli and the Giants tried to give them.

Not to mention, they both gave up TD's on the final drive knowing the game was on the line.

In SB 42, the time of possession was dead even. Patriots drives were:

-touchdown

-punt

-punt

-fumble (Brady)

-turnover on downs

-punt

-touchdown

-turnover on downs

What I still can't figure out is that with 28 second left to go in the game and 3 TOs ,why Brady was throwing bombs to Randy Moss and Gaffney when all he had to do was throw 3 intermediate passes (15 yards or so) each followed by a TO. That would have put the team in FG range and sent the game to OT. Brady moved the ball efficiently on the last touchdown drive but then couldn't do it on the final one.

 

[crawhammer]

Of course there was turmoil between belichick and Guerrero because Guerrero was telling players to not follow the teams training program.
Belichick was right about that.

Do we know that's absolutely true? Guerrero was actually telling players to not follow the team's training program? I really asking because I don't recall definitive proof of it... like players going on record.

 

[Ring 6]

Do we know that's absolutely true? Guerrero was actually telling players to not follow the team's training program? I really asking because I don't recall definitive proof of it... like players going on record.

He was recruiting players to train with him and his training conflicted with the pats training staff. THAT was why belichick pushed him out. Guerrero doesn’t believe in weightlifting.

 

[crawhammer]

What I still can't figure out is that with 28 second left to go in the game and 3 TOs ,why Brady was throwing bombs to Randy Moss and Gaffney when all he had to do was throw 3 intermediate passes (15 yards or so) each followed by a TO. That would have put the team in FG range and sent the game to OT. Brady moved the ball efficiently on the last touchdown drive but then couldn't do it on the final one.

I sort of agree with you here. However, I think it was the third down throw to Moss, they nearly had a completion there... incredible throw. I'm not sure what the call was on second down but Brady got immediately sacked for a big loss, which pretty much eliminated intermediate passes on third and fourth down. I don't recall what defense the Giants were in for that final 28 seconds either... I guess the first down look was probably the key.

I still say the Patriots defense choked up the game. Inexcusable allowing Eli Manning a 12-play 83-yard TD drive. They had given up another 80-yard TD drive two possessions earlier too.

 

[crawhammer]

He was recruiting players to train with him and his training conflicted with the pats training staff. THAT was why belichick pushed him out. Guerrero doesn’t believe in weightlifting.

Ok, well that sounds a bit less egregious than how you stated it previously. Still, I can agree if there was a conflict there, then the team had to take action.

 

[TheRainMaker]

In SB 42, the time of possession was dead even. Patriots drives were:

-touchdown

-punt

-punt

-fumble (Brady)

-turnover on downs

-punt

-touchdown

-turnover on downs

I was referring to Super Bowl 46 with time of possession.

What I still can't figure out is that with 28 second left to go in the game and 3 TOs ,why Brady was throwing bombs to Randy Moss and Gaffney when all he had to do was throw 3 intermediate passes (15 yards or so) each followed by a TO. That would have put the team in FG range and sent the game to OT. Brady moved the ball efficiently on the last touchdown drive but then couldn't do it on the final one.

Because they panicked after the Giants last drive. That was a back breaker.

 

[Pape]

Got to disagree, they were pretty bad because they couldn't get off the field. Giants were converting 3rd down after 3rd down. The time of possession was almost 2:1 in the Giants favor.

Ditto with the 1st Super Bowl. They were terrible given the amount of missed opportunities for turnovers Eli and the Giants tried to give them.

Not to mention, they both gave up TD's on the final drive knowing the game was on the line.

Got to disagree, they were pretty bad because they couldn't get off the field. Giants were converting 3rd down after 3rd down. The time of possession was almost 2:1 in the Giants favor.

Ditto with the 1st Super Bowl. They were terrible given the amount of missed opportunities for turnovers Eli and the Giants tried to give them.

Not to mention, they both gave up TD's on the final drive knowing the game was on the line.

Two 3 and outs, the safety and the 3rd q int didn't help the top battle.

And my math was wrong, it was 19 points.

Of those 19 points, 12 in the 2nd half fg fg then td with a failed conversion.

The team was offense driven at that point. They didn't get it done. Much more so than the defense.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Two 3 and outs, the safety and the 3rd q int didn't help the top battle.

And my math was wrong, it was 19 points.

Of those 19 points, 12 in the 2nd half fg fg then td with a failed conversion.

The team was offense driven at that point. They didn't get it done. Much more so than the defense.

I do agree that the offense didn't put their foot on the Giant's throat's up 17-9 knowing their D is bad.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I still say the Patriots defense choked up the game. Inexcusable allowing Eli Manning a 12-play 83-yard TD drive. They had given up another 80-yard TD drive two possessions earlier too.

That final drive was Bill's spotlight to show the world he's a defensive genius and get them into immortality needing only one stop. Couldn't do it.

It took his defense 7 years to finally get a stop.

 

[Pape]

That final drive was Bill's spotlight to show the world he's a defensive genius and get them into immortality needing only one stop. Couldn't do it.

It took his defense 7 years to finally get a stop.

Pitiful.

The offense choke up fur balls against the gints... Twice.

I know it hurts to admit that, but the offense scored 14 and 17 points. No matter how hard you try to twist it, the offense crapped their pants in those games. 18-1 because they could score 18 points against a team they hung 38 on three weeks before the super bowl... and then they open the second game with a dumbass safety and couldnt run the clock when they needed to.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Pitiful.

The offense choke up fur balls against the gints... Twice.

I know it hurts to admit that, but the offense scored 14 and 17 points. No matter how hard you try to twist it, the offense crapped their pants in those games. 18-1 because they could score 18 points against a team they hung 38 on three weeks before the super bowl... and then they open the second game with a dumbass safety and couldnt run the clock when they needed to.

Yes, the offense sucked. However, the D knew the offense wasn't going to be able to go back out there with enough time to respond. They failed twice.

 

[Pape]

the offense sucked.

Stop.

End of Story.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Stop.

End of Story.

Would the defense get a pass had Malcolm Butler not got that miracle INT?

 

[Pape]

Would the defense get a pass had Malcolm Butler not got that miracle INT?

If I told you the defense would only give up 17 and 19 points prior to those games, would you think the Pats would win?

dont bother, we both know the answer to the question

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

 

[Ian]

In SB 42, the time of possession was dead even. Patriots drives were:

-touchdown

-punt

-punt

-fumble (Brady)

-turnover on downs

-punt

-touchdown

-turnover on downs

What I still can't figure out is that with 28 second left to go in the game and 3 TOs ,why Brady was throwing bombs to Randy Moss and Gaffney when all he had to do was throw 3 intermediate passes (15 yards or so) each followed by a TO. That would have put the team in FG range and sent the game to OT. Brady moved the ball efficiently on the last touchdown drive but then couldn't do it on the final one.

Man...I haven't checked in on this in a while, but all I'm going to say is this:

Many of us watched the Patriots in the 80s and 90s, while others were able to enjoy 20-years of dominance and six Super Bowl wins here in the 2000s.

As "bad" as you think Brady was - or that you're trying to infer for the sake (I'm assuming) of getting a rise out of people - I'll take it.

And he still goes down as the GOAT.

We can debate the details and where it wasn't perfect, but he did enough in each game (and more than enough in others) for them to win those titles. No QB goes out and throws for 500-yards and 6 touchdowns in each Super Bowl because they're facing the team that was also the best in their conference. That's why so many of these, save for a few, are typically hard-fought close games. But great players find ways to win, and that's what he did for us six times.

Period.

 

[TheRainMaker]

If I told you the defense would only give up 17 and 19 points prior to those games, would you think the Pats would win?

dont bother, we both know the answer to the question

Bottom line is, posters on this board claim the Pats won their early Super Bowls based on defense. But when the defense can't stop a team on the final drive the excuse is "well, the offense didn't score enough".

And you dodged my earlier question regarding Malcolm Butler.

 

[Ian]

LOL, and I should ban anyone who talks about the Super Bowl from the 2007 season. It's bad enough the NFL Network plays it all the time...there's nothing that will make me ever feel better about that one, although you sort of left out the slight detail about the distraction from the Tomase article that came out that weekend and completely blew up everything and likely also played a role in some way in that loss. But I don't want to talk about that either

 

[Zuma]

LOL, and I should ban anyone who talks about the Super Bowl from the 2007 season.

Seriously! I don’t want to remember any of that. I won’t read those posts and why should I? I’m looking forward to the future and I’m very encouraged.