Reevaluating the New England Patriots for 2009

[RayClay]

The normal 4-3 gives the ends pass-rush responsibility. It is less effective against the run since only two linemen have primary run responsibility.

I think Big Sey, with an OLB or quick DE on the other side, covers that.

 

[BSR]

I'll play devil's advocate here, but I for one am quite worried about the defense. Not because I think there are bad players but rather because we don't know what we have.

The entire secondary is a question mark. At this point can we definitively say who will be a starter at a specific position? I'd want to say Merriweather wins a spot but I wouldn't be shocked if someone beat him out. Otherwise, Sanders looks good for the other safety spot but it would be even less of a suprise if he doesn't. Corners are anyones guess.

We also still don't have a clue as to who two of our starting four linebackers will be. Its totally up in the air and based of what we've seen of those on the roster, someone will really need to make significant improvement if we are going to have the same level of production that we are used to from these positions. Of course we still have hope that JT will sign on but that isn't a reality for now.

I'm also a bit worried about our oline which will need to protect our greatest asset. Can Neal stay healthy? Do we have any depth beyond the starters? We really need some of these young players to step up as we will probably need them at one point or another during the year.

Can all these be resolved before the start of the season? Of course. But given what we have right now, I am a bit worried. I think (hope?) that they will all be taken care off and that BB knows what he is doing and found the right men for the job, but for now there are some serious question marks.

 

[Ring 6]

I sure don't, as we stand. I have minor questions about the linebackers, but the pass rush is a major question.

We lost Vrabel. It should be worse.

I can't see how we proceed without a fairly major acquisition.

I think that in our base 34, last year we had 3 DL and mostly Vrabel rush the QB. This year it will be 3 DL and someone else. I think someone else, given all of the players we have to chose from will do better than Vrable did last year, as Vrable was very ineffective.
In the sub packages, last year was 2 DL and 2 OLBs playing DE, usually Thomas and Vrabel. This year it will be the same DL rotation Thomas and someone else. I think, again, someone else will be an imporvement over Vrable.
Vrable has been one of my favorite Patriots for a long time. However, there is no mistaking that he had a poor year last year, and whoever on the roster earns that role will very likely be better than he was in 2008. The same goes for Rodney Harrison.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'll play devil's advocate here, but I for one am quite worried about the defense. Not because I think there are bad players but rather because we don't know what we have.

The entire secondary is a question mark. At this point can we definitively say who will be a starter at a specific position? I'd want to say Merriweather wins a spot but I wouldn't be shocked if someone beat him out. Otherwise, Sanders looks good for the other safety spot but it would be even less of a suprise if he doesn't. Corners are anyones guess.

We also still don't have a clue as to who two of our starting four linebackers will be. Its totally up in the air and based of what we've seen of those on the roster, someone will really need to make significant improvement if we are going to have the same level of production that we are used to from these positions. Of course we still have hope that JT will sign on but that isn't a reality for now.

I'm also a bit worried about our oline which will need to protect our greatest asset. Can Neal stay healthy? Do we have any depth beyond the starters? We really need some of these young players to step up as we will probably need them at one point or another during the year.

Can all these be resolved before the start of the season? Of course. But given what we have right now, I am a bit worried. I think (hope?) that they will all be taken care off and that BB knows what he is doing and found the right men for the job, but for now there are some serious question marks.

I think it's safe to give out 3 of the 4 starting spots now. I expect that Meriweather, Springs and Sanders will be starting week 1, barring injury.

 

[mgteich]

I would be surprised if Bodden weren't starting barring injury. In any case, the nickel will play almost 75% of the defensive reps, so he is almost as critical as the starter.

I think it's safe to give out 3 of the 4 starting spots now. I expect that Meriweather, Springs and Sanders will be starting week 1, barring injury.

 

[CrazyDave]

The open question is why we think our passrush will be better this year than in the last two years.

Coverage sacks?

 

[Ring 6]

I'll play devil's advocate here, but I for one am quite worried about the defense. Not because I think there are bad players but rather because we don't know what we have.

The entire secondary is a question mark. At this point can we definitively say who will be a starter at a specific position? I'd want to say Merriweather wins a spot but I wouldn't be shocked if someone beat him out. Otherwise, Sanders looks good for the other safety spot but it would be even less of a suprise if he doesn't. Corners are anyones guess.

We also still don't have a clue as to who two of our starting four linebackers will be. Its totally up in the air and based of what we've seen of those on the roster, someone will really need to make significant improvement if we are going to have the same level of production that we are used to from these positions. Of course we still have hope that JT will sign on but that isn't a reality for now.

I'm also a bit worried about our oline which will need to protect our greatest asset. Can Neal stay healthy? Do we have any depth beyond the starters? We really need some of these young players to step up as we will probably need them at one point or another during the year.

Can all these be resolved before the start of the season? Of course. But given what we have right now, I am a bit worried. I think (hope?) that they will all be taken care off and that BB knows what he is doing and found the right men for the job, but for now there are some serious question marks.

I think there is a big difference between not knowing HOW it will come together and being worried that it wont. Primarily because BB is running the show.
We aren't making changes because we were forced to we are making them by choice, BBs choice.
Vrable and Hobbs are being replaced. They are being replaced because BB decided they were not capable (because clearly it wasnt because of the value we got back). That implies very strongly that BB feels the repalcement is an improvement, otherwise he would have kept both around, at least until they were officially beaten out and cut. Now, many teams make those type of decisions and are wrong, but BB really does not. His track record of when to replace a player has been great.

 

[BSR]

But is there any basis for those predictions, other then at safety. At corner, I wouldn't be shocked if any combination of Springs, Bodden, Wilhite, Wheathly and Butler were the starters on opening day. I think it is that wide open. Sure Springs and Bodden have the experience, but Wilhite and Wheatly know the system, while Butler has some great talent. I think its truly an open competition.

As for safety, you are right that Merriweather and Sanders are the probable starters but it isn't a certainty by any means. Neither of them have the trackrecords that you could point to and say there is our starter.

 

[Deus Irae]

I would be surprised if Bodden weren't starting barring injury. In any case, the nickel will play almost 75% of the defensive reps, so he is almost as critical as the starter.

Well, Wheatley had stepped into the starter role just prior to snapping his OTHER wrist. Now, granted, he was beating out Deltha O'Neal, but he still had won the gig. I don't see Wilhite getting the job, and I don't see the rookie winning it either. I could, however, see a scenario where the team lines up with Springs, Wheatley and Wilhite as the 2 starters and the nickel. Not to fully rehash another thread, but we really don't know what Bodden's going to bring to the table after his experience in Detroit.

I would, however, expect that he's the favorite to win that 4th starting DB job, the way Bryant was the favorite last season.

 

[Ring 6]

I think it's safe to give out 3 of the 4 starting spots now. I expect that Meriweather, Springs and Sanders will be starting week 1, barring injury.

I would agree with Meriweather and Sanders as definites. I would say that its a safe bet that 2 of Springs, Bodden and Wheatley will start, but it could be any 2 of those 3. (My hunch personally is that Wheatley is the reason for the Hobbs trade and he will start and play very well this year)

 

[BSR]

I think there is a big difference between not knowing HOW it will come together and being worried that it wont. Primarily because BB is running the show.
We aren't making changes because we were forced to we are making them by choice, BBs choice.
Vrable and Hobbs are being replaced. They are being replaced because BB decided they were not capable (because clearly it wasnt because of the value we got back). That implies very strongly that BB feels the repalcement is an improvement, otherwise he would have kept both around, at least until they were officially beaten out and cut. Now, many teams make those type of decisions and are wrong, but BB really does not. His track record of when to replace a player has been great.

I agree with you, that it probably WILL come together. We all have faith in BB but it wouldn't be the first time that one of his plans hasen't worked. Like the WRs in 06 or the DBs in 08, the secondary might not come together in 09. Like I said, I trying to play devil's advocate here and point out there are still some serious concerns.

 

[Deus Irae]

But is there any basis for those predictions, other then at safety. At corner, I wouldn't be shocked if any combination of Springs, Bodden, Wilhite, Wheathly and Butler were the starters on opening day. I think it is that wide open. Sure Springs and Bodden have the experience, but Wilhite and Wheatly know the system, while Butler has some great talent. I think its truly an open competition.

As for safety, you are right that Merriweather and Sanders are the probable starters but it isn't a certainty by any means. Neither of them have the trackrecords that you could point to and say there is our starter.

Basis for the predictions:

1.) Sanders just re-upped and is getting paid to start, while Chung is a rookie.

2.) Meriweather was improving all throughout last season.

3.) Springs wasn't signed to ride the pine, given his contract.

I'd be stunned if Chung, Butler or Wilhite were in the starting 4 for opening day, barring injury to other DBs.

 

[ScottieC]

They look deep at every position. Will they be the first team to primarily employ a 4-2-5 defense?

If they fill that OLB with J. Taylor - That will be a scary scary football team.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree with you, that it probably WILL come together. We all have faith in BB but it wouldn't be the first time that one of his plans hasen't worked. Like the WRs in 06 or the DBs in 08, the secondary might not come together in 09. Like I said, I trying to play devil's advocate here and point out there are still some serious concerns.

I understand what you are saying. I'm just pointing out that not knowing the plan is different than the plan being flawed.

 

[mgteich]

And having three starting quality corners is a good thing, even if we don't know now who will be the starters and who will be the nickel. No one knows who of Wheatley, Spings and Bodden will get the most reps and who will start. I'm not sure it matters.

Wilhite is a reasonable backup, who started some last year. And how awesome is it to have drafted a #1 valued DB and have him 5th on your depth chart, needing little from him in his rookie year other than special teams play!

This backfield isn't of the quality we had in our Super Bowl years, but it could develop into that. We certainly have better depth.

 

[Ring 6]

And having three starting quality corners is a good thing, even if we don't know now who will be the starters and who will be the nickel. No one knows who of Wheatley, Spings and Bodden will get the most reps and who will start. I'm not sure it matters.

Wilhite is a reasonable backup, who started some last year. And how awesome is it to have drafted a #1 valued DB and have him 5th on your depth chart, needing little from him in his rookie year other than special teams play!

This backfield isn't of the quality we had in our Super Bowl years, but it could develop into that. We certainly have better depth.

What I like is we have a combinaiton of consistent reliable veterans and young players with upside. The young players may play a small or big role, depending on what the EARN. Butler will be on the field as much as he is good enough to be and not at all if he isnt ready.

 

[JackBauer]

I sure don't, as we stand. I have minor questions about the linebackers, but the pass rush is a major question.

We lost Vrabel. It should be worse.

I can't see how we proceed without a fairly major acquisition.

Uh, did you watch Vrabel rushing the passer last year?

 

[JackBauer]

As for safety, you are right that Merriweather and Sanders are the probable starters but it isn't a certainty by any means. Neither of them have the trackrecords that you could point to and say there is our starter.

Other than, you know, the fact that they started all of last season?

 

[Sicilian]

I'd want to say Merriweather wins a spot but I wouldn't be shocked if someone beat him out.

I would be. Meriweather improved significantly from the beginning of his rookie year to the end of it. He then improved a great deal again from the end of 2007 to the beginning of 2008. He then continued to show improvement and added versatility from the beginning of 2008 to the end of it.

Barring a major setback, not only would I be surprised if he's not the starting FS, I'd be surprised if he doesn't continue to get better and better in year three.

 

[ScottieC]

I think it's safe to give out 3 of the 4 starting spots now. I expect that Meriweather, Springs and Sanders will be starting week 1, barring injury.

I'd be surprised to see Bodden not in the starting line up - and incredibly disappointed.