Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by tedster822, Mar 16, 2006.
...reported by Adam Schefter on NFL Network.
Yeah, I was about to post that. I'd be interested in him as a #3 WR . . . with Keyshawn as #2.
Reche if given the chance could be this teams #2 WR. Screw Keyshawn.
He does fit the Patriots' profile of decent size, more quick than fast, etc. And I do trust Belichick's judgement but I would be nervous penciling him in at #2. But I'm not expert on him, I don't watch a lot of Charger games.
I think a good pickup....they need receivers...!!
I'd take him as WR depth, why the Hell not. I trust these guys. They'll need to F up more than one FA off-season in a row before I lose faith in their ability to evaluate personnel.
By the way, I think I'm going nuts. In what world does a 6', 215 guy "fit the Patriots' profile of decent size?" He's a GIANT by our standards.
LOL, I guess I was a little off when I said that. I was thinking of the calls for a big 6'3" type WR but you're right.
Caldwell hasnt produce very much, but it isnt beyond reason to me that plugging him into our system with Brady slinging the rock would end up with as much, or close to as much production as we got from Givens.
My opinion is that BBs decision was that Givens production was as much a product of the system as Givens ability. If that is correct, then BB would feel he can bring in a similarly talented player and the production would be much more for us than in the system they played in.
For my money Reche Caldwell is a much better WR in our system with Tom Brady than in SDs Martyball system with Drew Brees.
In essence, Caldwell here is better than Caldwell there, Givens here is better than Givens in Tenn, or if he were in SD. I actually think that is unquestionable. The question is how much the gap closes.
The "WR plan" may be that we let a guy go who will be paid for what our system allowed him to do, and bring in guys who will be paid for what a lesser system allowed them to do.
In other words, we add VALUE>
Just to expand on that, here is an analogy.
Lets use Mike Vrabel.
Mike Vrabel came to NE for the price of what he could be as a Steeler.
He became a better player as a Patriot. And I think he would be a worse player on any other team.
That means we paid the price of how good he was as a Steeler, and got a bargain.
If he were a FA whoever signed him would have to pay for his ability or value as a Patriot, and they would be overpaying, because he wont be that good there.
This could have a lot to do with a tendancy of BB not signing players WE think have great value, but when they go to another team they seem to have less value, and were overpaid.
Vrable is a 5 in Pitt, an 8 in NE.
We sign an 8 player at the cost of a 5.
If he would now be a 6.5 if he left NE and went to another team, that team would pay for an 8.
We would instead choose to sign someone else 5 that becomes our 8. We get 'another Vrabel' that we pay like someone who isnt supposed to be Vrabel.
As they say about Belichick "He can take his and beat yours or he can take yours and beat his".
He takes yours that dont seem so good, and makes them good.
And he makes his look better than they are going to be for you.
Most insightful stuff I've read all day.
I'm a little concerned about Caldwell's lack of production, considering the quality of the Charger's offense. They've got Brees, Tomlinson, and Gates, but Caldwell couldn't get it going, quickly surpassed by Keenan McCardell (a very good veteran) and Eric Parker (less heralded younger player).
Martyball or not, the Chargers have had a powerful offense for the last two years, and Caldwell hasn't had much to do with it.
That said, we're so thin at WR that we really don't have a choice but to at least look at him. Also, Schottenheimer's been wrong before about releasing his players -- Harrison springs to mind, and the Brees/Rivers choice could end up haunting them -- so there is some precedent to consider as well.
IIRC, He had various injuries in 2003 had a torn ACL in 2004 and I don't think that he was 100% in 2005.
It seems that he'd be at best a 3rd WR but has trouble holding onto the rock.
He drops a lot of footballs that he has no business dropping. I think he has a case of the Seattle's.
Sorry MGColby. You have to go back 3 years to when Caldwell dropped tons of passes. And even then it was only 3. Last year Caldwell didn't drop any and caught almost 2/3s of the balls thrown his way. The year before that, he had no drops and caught 62% of the passes thrown his way. You have to go back to 2003 to find a time when Caldwell had a ton of dropped passes and wasn't catching a lot of balls.
It sure looks to me like Caldwell got acquainted with the JUGS machine after the 2003 season and I think he'd be a great addition to the Pats.
As last year, we need a bunch of guys to compete for several roster spots. It really doesn't matter whether he'd end up as a #2, a #3, a #4 or a #5. We need them all, and BTW, can he return kicks or punts?
I looked at NFL.com and Reche is almost a clone of Givens at 6'0 215# and a four year vet. He doesn't have the receiving stats of Givensn bu the YPC are comparable.
And by the way he averaged 26.6 on KO, but didn't do many...
Don't like him....scouting report says he is always injured.
Another thing that many people should note he played basically behind these 4 guys. L Tomlinson, Gates, McCardell and Parker.
Anyones workload would be significantly declined behind those player types.
The only season he was hurt was 2004. When all he played was in 6 games. Before that in 2003 i believe he was activated for only like 10 of them.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2002/draft/players/17897.html I like to look back at their draft profile...to see what was there before.
[font=arial,helvetica]de [/font][font=arial,helvetica][/font][font=arial,helvetica]H:5'11Ã‚Â½ .................W:[/font][font=arial,helvetica][font=arial,helvetica]194................. 40: [/font][font=arial,helvetica]4.47..........Grade: [/font][font=arial,helvetica]3.82[/font][/font]
Brian Bahr/Getty Images[/font] [font=arial,helvetica]Two-year starter who was a second team All-Conference choice last year as a junior when he caught 65/1,059/16.3/3. Totaled 49/760/15.5/6 as a red shirt sophomore, after 27/269/12.0/2 during his first-year on the football field. Saw minimal action returning both punts and kicks early Consistent, reliable target that makes all the catches. Quick releasing off the line of scrimmage, sells his routes and extends his hands away from his body, giving the quarterback a big target. Looks the pass in, displays focus, concentration and effective running after the catch. Goes over the middle and consistently finds the open spot on the field. Times and anticipates his receptions well, adjusts to the errant throw and makes the difficult catch in traffic. Lacks the top end speed, not getting separation down the field nor does he always win out in battles. Needs more on the field experience but a solid receiver with a good amount of upside potential. Mid to late Second Round. [/font]
Caldwell is an intelligent option.
That's why I like the Pats. They always seems to find the right player. Pioli is cerainly a beast in fantasy draft...
In 2004-2005 Just before is injury, he was on pace to become a no.1 receiver.
Week 1 @HOU W 27-20 4 65 16.3 36 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Week 2 NYJ L 34-28 4 67 16.8 33 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Week 3 @DEN L 23-13 3 39 13.0 16 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Week 4 TEN W 38-17 3 110 36.7 58 1 1 20 20.0 20 0 0 0
3 TD in 4 games
He played with doug Flutie.
Bad luck injury have slowed him.
Very good long shot. He shows promise, and several scouts show in him a very good receiver.
''Caldwell, who was hurt in Sunday's 21-20 loss at Atlanta, is expected to have surgery in the next few days to repair his torn anterior cruciate ligament.
Caldwell was San Diego's leading wideout, with 18 catches for 310 yards -- an average of 17.2 yards -- and three scores. Tight end Antonio Gates leads the team with 37 catches for 422 yards and three scores''
"I was very disappointed because I'm playing well this year," said Caldwell, who made a spectacular one-handed, 58-yard touchdown catch on Oct. 3 in a win against Tennessee. "Unfortunately, it happened. I'm looking forward to playing next year."
""The Chargers can use some production from their wide receivers. Including Caldwell's 18 catches, wideouts have caught only 35 balls this year. Caldwell was the only Chargers' wide receiver to catch passes in consecutive wins over Tennessee and Jacksonville.
I don't think this is necessarily true...
"Mike Vrabel came to NE for the price of what he could be as a Steeler.
He became a better player as a Patriot. And I think he would be a worse player on any other team."
I don't agree on this one......I think that Vrabel has "matured" alot and grown as a player here in NE......and I think if he went elsewhere with a similiar defensive scheme......he would EXCEL there as well. I don't think Vrabel is a "system" kind of player. I think he has gained experience and confidence here...and would be great elsewhere!!!! Thankfully he isn't going anywhere this year!!!! one man's opinion....
Don`t think pats interested in him . If they were BB wouldn`t been
in Florida. he watched celtics game there.
There are very few places he would have the talent around him and schemes that he has here.
I think almost by definition he would be less effective on almost any other team because of that.
fwiw, i have a buddy who is a huge diehard chargers fan, as in has seen every game for like the last 20 years. this is what he said when i mentioned pats interested in caldwell:
take it fwiw, but this is from a guy who has seen every game caldwell has played, as opposed to lots of folks like us who are making judgements based on things we've heard vs. seen.
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