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Protecting the QB - 2 Key Matchups

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Nov 14, 2009.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1) The dinged patriot OL needs to be able to protect Brady and diminish Freeney and the rest of the colt pass rush. We will likely run a lot of six man lines, using one of our TE's as a blocker.

    2) The patriots need a pass rush or need to blitz. They CANNOT allow Manning time to throw. Bltitzing will out pressure on the secondary, but pressure that they can handle. What they can't handle is Manning with time in the pocket.

    BOTTOM LINE
    Whichever quarterback gets protection will likely pick apart the opposing secondaries.
     
  2. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I expect us to not blitz a whole lot other than a few surprise ones and some 3rd and longs. Good QB will eat it up, I expect a 3-4 man pass rush and a ton of coverage most of the game. I know it will irritate people to no end but our secondary is becomming a strength, I expect to see 6 of them in as our base defense. I think the big nickel returns with 3 CB and 3 Safeties. As Belichick has admitted we can't change personnel much inside a drive, I would start 6 DBs and McGowan and/or Chung can move up to a LB position based on Down & Distance. On passing downs, rather than blitz consistently I expect all three Safeties and 3 CB in coverage.
     
  3. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What you basically saying is give Manning all the time he wants and our six top defensive backs will take care of the receivers of the colts.

    While I am a strong believer in "bend and don't break" and of relatively few blitzes, I don't think that would work against Manning. I think the colts would simnply go into the no-huddle and accept the defense that you have outlined.

    In the end, you believe that our secondary will defeat Peyton Manning with unlimited time. I just don't agree.

     
  4. patriotscpfc

    patriotscpfc Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Without meaning to sound stupid.

    Isn't that kinda obvious.
     
  5. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    Your'e right. They are gonna play a ton of coverage. Indy is gonna need to show they can run em' out of it.
     
  6. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think the key is for the front 4 to get good pressure. I don't think we will (nor should) be blitzing a whole lot, but the front 4 need to disrupt things enough so that he doesn't have all day. I expect to see the occasional 5 man blitz with a few 6-7 man blitz. If the front 4 can get pressure, we should be successful. If they can't, it won't matter how good our secondary is, Peyton can beat any secondary with time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2009
  7. MoLewisrocks

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    Manning historically diagnoses and eats blitzes for lunch. We used to be able to confuse him with exotic scheme, but he caught up. The game plan for this week will likely focus on disrupting his timing with his receivers and more man than zone coverage with McGowan in Clark's hip pocket while ideally getting just enough pressure to force Peyton off his spot. Kinda like the game plan for XXXVI. If in the process we occasionally manage to smack him in the mouth a couple of times, that won't hurt.
     
  8. BelichickFan

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    Basically, yeah. I don't expect consistent blitzing to get to him - just the occasional surprise blitz. The Colts usually have 5 receiving option, even if a LB can take Addai that leaves 4. For any kind of doubling or a Safety giving extra attention to Wayne (if not a true double) we will need 5-6 DBs in coverage.

    This is a 6 DB Big Nickel game all the way if I'm Pees. You can play what you want without changing personnel as I think McGowan and Chung can come up and do a creditable job at LB on occasion.

    Bodden, Butler, Wilhite, Meriweather, Chung, McGowan, Mayo, Guyton, Burgess, TBC and Wilfork would get the most time if I were running this thing with all kinds of formations off that personnel.
     
  9. RussFrancis

    RussFrancis Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    For my money, the key matchup is Kaczur on Mathis. Mathis is even faster than Freeney, imo. And Kaczur is probably our weak link on the line. They know getting Mathis in Brady's face is one of their keys. But I think Vollmer is the real deal. I see Freeney being a challenge, but ultimately I think he engulfs Freeney, and controls his spin move. And we run right over Vollmer's side, and the rookie pancakes the smaller man on multiple occasions.
     
  10. BelichickFan

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    He did catch up - but our DBs have also gotten worse over the years. This is the first year that we have made a significant upgrade there and can try some new things. I expect some of that although I expect some stuff to be saved for the playoffs too. This game is important for a bye but we're in great shape if we win the Jets and Fins games and we may have a more important game at Indy down the road.

    Last year for this game Wheatley and O'Neal were our #2 and #3 CB. Ouch.
     
  11. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think the Pats will send 5 more than they have in the past. Regardless of the numbers, the key is going to be disguising where the pressure is coming from. Have 7 at the line poised to rush and bring 4 or 5. Middle pressure from Guyton, Mayo, Chung and Meriweather could be effective at disrupting Manning's timing.
     
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree that it is obvious that whichever quraterback is protected will pick apart the opposing defense.

    Others think that it is OK to give Manning lots of time and stay back with six in coverage.

     
  13. Willie55

    Willie55 In the Starting Line-Up

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    As BelichickFan said I see alot of coverage. In having 5 or 6 defensive backs it allows the corners to play press coverage on the WR's and knock them off their routes. If in playing press coverage the CB's whiff when trying to hit the receivers coming off the line there will be help over the top.

    In addition, McGowan will be in Clark's grill all day. Watching some replay from last week McGowan was obviously responsible for Fausano. On one particular play, which was a running play, McGowan didn't attempt to break for the backfield to make the tackle. He stayed at home stuck to Fausano even though he was run blocking.
     
  14. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    The good thing we FINALLY have going is we have the Safeties who can cover, blitz and even play the run as a LB if necessary. After 7 years of trying off and on I think Belichick finally can run the Big Nickel (or even Big Dime) and do what he wants against the Colts without trying to change personnel within a drive.
     
  15. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    3 cb and 3 safeties = dime, not nickel.
     
  16. MoLewisrocks

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    Others including the guy with access to all the film and stats on your target to back his informed opinion. You can try and hope to get to him via blitz, but history shows that to be a failed approach.

    Belichick concerned about pressuring Peyton | ProFootballTalk.com
     
  17. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah, I know, that's why I referenced the Big Dime in my last post. We've talked about this Big Nickel so much, though, it's more familiar wording.
     
  18. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For me

    NORMAL DIME PACKAGE
    6 defensive backs in coverage
    The #5 is the nickel back who is primarily responsible for coverage
    The #6 is in the game for coverage. It doesn't matter whether he is called a safety or a corner; he has responsibilities of a corner.

    THE BIG NICKEL
    Here the #5 is a safety with size that also has significant run responsibilities

    WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING - THE BIG DIME
    Three with corner responsibilities and three with safety responsibilities.
    This is NOT a good idea and should be considered only if we are so restricted in our players who can cover that we need to improvise.

    I would HOPE that when we played dime, we ALWAYS would have four players who can cover well. Personally, I would rather have Wheatley in the game against Manning than Chung.

     
  19. BelichickFan

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    I think it's a good idea IF we can take Clark with McGowan. The Colts usually have 3 WR, we would have 3 CB. McGowan on Clark leaves 2 more Safeties to help the CB as needed.

    Remember a big key in this game is we cannot change personnel in a series or Manning will quick snap us. The Big Dime, IMO, gives us the best combination of coverage, ability to blitz and ability to play a tighter defense in run situations.
     
  20. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    The Dime has usually been 4 safeties and 2 CBs, with McGowan in as hybrid LB/S.
     
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