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Pro Bowl voting & Patriot players (merged many times)


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I recall Chung giving up a few, but not that many.

I'd add that this is Chung's first year as a Starter and his 2nd year in the system rather than the 4th.

Chung has been hit for a few TDs no question. I recall getting ticked a couple of times at him. I also do anticipate him improving in coverage. Deciphering NFL passing patterns and offenses is the toughest thing for a DB to learn- especially around the goal line.
 
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People get pissed at Meriweather for taking bad angles but I've never seen any animosity towards Chung for all the TDs he has given up.

Chung usually gets beat when in man coverage on a wide receiver. He gave up a few TDs against Blair White and the Colts, and one wasn't great, but the other was just a fantastic pass from Manning. The fact that we even think Chung should be in the nickel covering a WR says a lot about the confidence we have in him though. That's a bit different than the poor angles Meriweather often takes while in a support role in coverage.

Meriweather has had some really good games but very inconsistent. It was the same thing last year. I don't hate him or anything, but it's clear he has an extreme amount of talent that seems to go to waste at times.
 
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Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Which ones? And why?

Why on Earth would I get into a player-by-player comparison with someone who's so insanely anti-Meriweather that he's got him below all of those safeties, when he's clearly superior to many of them?

That wasn't my point. I specifically said he's not in the top half of safeties in the AFC, and someone asked me to list who was better than him, so I laid out a rough list of who I would put above him.

And your list is a joke, since you obviously didn't follow those players this year. Dawkins? Seriously?
 
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Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

That's not a whole of a lot better.

Have we watched many Broncos games this year?

And your list is a joke, since you obviously didn't follow those players this year. Dawkins? Seriously?

Did you see how much worse they were without Dawkins though when he was hurt? Also, if not for injury, he'd be on pace for nearly 100 tackles again. Last year he was borderline great, and this year he hasn't regressed all that much. And, as I mentioned, his leadership definitely counts for something. One game, right now, you're picking Brandon freakin' Meriweather over Dawkins? I think you're the joke. You haven't said one piece of information to prove any of your points other than saying I don't know what I'm talking about. Great argument style.
 
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Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

..One game, right now, you're picking Brandon freakin' Meriweather over Dawkins?...

Yes. But, then again, I've watched both of them play this year.


In a position to put the wood to San Diego receiver Patrick Crayton late in the second quarter, Dawkins swung and missed, with his mistake resulting in a 40-yard touchdown that allowed the Chargers to take a 14-point lead to halftime.

"I've got to make that play," Dawkins said.


Read more: Kiszla: Dawkins grasps at fountain of youth - The Denver Post Kiszla: Dawkins grasps at fountain of youth - The Denver Post
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: Terms of Use - The Denver Post

OMG!!! Brandon Meriweather is not the only NFL safety to blow a play this season? Why has this not been making national headlines?

Well, maybe we can look to Broncos boards for some insight:

Should Dawkins be benched? - Broncos Forums

Dawkins - Broncos Forums
 
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Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Pro Football Focus live on Patriots Playbook on Patriots.com now.

Enjoy it, I think Rooke will go mad at the guy at some point
 
Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Right now? Absolutely.

Our D needs a guy back there who can cover ground and protect vs the deep pass. Dawkins wouldn't meet our needs in that capacity.

In 2004, I would take him in a heartbeat.
 
Re: Brady comes from behind to clinch fan vote 2011 Pro Bowl

I thought this Pro Bowl was back to where it should be, AFTER the Super Bowl.

I'm not watching it again until they put it back where it belongs.
 
Generally speaking I like Meriweather but I do see him doing some dumb stuff now and again. I don't see the same from Chung. Wouldn't the fact that Chung has significantly more tackles and assists that Meriweather indicate that he's generally in better position? In my mind, Chung is our #1 but Meriweather is still #2 over both Sanders and Page. I would think Chung taking reduced snaps lately has more to do with his injury than anything else.
 
Generally speaking I like Meriweather but I do see him doing some dumb stuff now and again. I don't see the same from Chung. Wouldn't the fact that Chung has significantly more tackles and assists that Meriweather indicate that he's generally in better position? In my mind, Chung is our #1 but Meriweather is still #2 over both Sanders and Page. I would think Chung taking reduced snaps lately has more to do with his injury than anything else.

My take is that Chung sometimes play slot nickel DB and is a bit closer to the LoS therefore has more of an opportunity to make more tackles.
 
My take is that Chung sometimes play slot nickel DB and is a bit closer to the LoS therefore has more of an opportunity to make more tackles.

Yeah but he still has to beat Mayo to every last one!
 
I'll try not to get too deep into the back-and-forth that will undoubtedly end at an impasse anyway, but here goes . . .

I've seen recent posts comparing Chung to Meriweather, but I don't know if a true comparison between the two can be made here. They're just too different in some respects:

1. The plays that Chung gives up are usually in man coverage and that's an area where he needs improvement. We all knew that coming into the season, though, so it shouldn't be a shock that he's given up some plays. Chung was a safety throughout his college career, so he's essentially learning a whole new skill at the pro level against pro receivers. Nowadays, thanks in part to NE, teams value slot receivers more than ever before. There are a few in the league that could probably easily be another team's No. 1 or 2. Asking a guy who has played safety most of his career to matchup one-on-one is asking a lot. The coaching staff obviously has enough confidence in him to ask such a thing, but that probably just means he's the best option to them right now. Maybe they just don't feel Butler can do the job as well, or maybe they think he's just too athletically gifted to take him off the field. Either way, he's got some learning to do.

Meriweather, on the other had, played corner in college. I'm not sure if he played that position full-time or not, but he played it enough that you'd think he could/would be asked to do some of that at the pro level. The coaching staff has not asked that of him. There could be a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with a perceived lack of merit or skill, but one can only speculate. Why would such a tall order be entrusted to a second-year guy who is essentially a rookie since he didn't play a large number of defensive snaps last season and not a veteran of four season?

Meriweather does take bad angles. That's not opinion or subjective analysis. It's rather obvious if you're really watching. The Green Bay play where he annihilated McCourty it one such play that jumps out at me. McCourty was beat by a half-step or so, but he would have at least made the tackle had he not been torpedoed by his teammate.

2. As mentioned briefly, Chung is a second-year player. He's not only learning how to be a professional, but he's learning what is considered one of the more difficult defensive schemes in the league under a very demanding coach. That's got to be difficult for anyone. In spite of that, Chung has looked like a seasoned pro at times this season. The defense was OBVIOUSLY better when he returned to the lineup in the Pittsburgh game. I remember even Collingsworth noted the difference about ten or so minutes after I said it to my GF. The defense just didn't seem to function the same in the games that he missed this year. That's saying a lot when such a young guy can have that impact.

Meri is in his his fourth season. I don't recall a time when I thought that the D lacked something without him. He's around the ball enough that he does make a little impact here and there, but I don't think it's consistently enough that there's a considerable drop off when he's not on the field. Even last season when he occupied the SS position I don't feel like he had the same impact as Chung has had this season.

3. This is perhaps the biggest reason why I think the comparison shouldn't be made. When looking at Chung, I see a guy who is improving as time goes on. I see a guy who seems to want to get better with each practice and become the consummate professional. In fact, I've read article after article about how he's just as intense and passionate in practice as he is on the field. In meetings, he asks tons of questions and studies a lot.

Meriweather, on the other hand, was benched for a while for arriving late to a meeting. Now, I certainly don't know the circumstances behind his tardiness, but the fact remains that he was tardy and that's usually a knock against a person no matter the reason (even in the "real" world). One has to think that if the reason was really that good, then BB and co. wouldn't have felt the need to send a message to the kid by benching him.

There just seems to be something lacking mentally with the guy, whether it's a legitimate lack of intelligence or lack of passion or he thinks too highly of himself. Anyone who says that Meriweather has not regressed to a degree is just being foolish, IMHO. I need only to point you to the first game against Buffalo and some of the bonehead things he did in that game to illustrate that he is not playing to the level he did last season . . . or any of his previous seasons for that matter.

Disclaimer: Even with all that said, I actually still like the kid a lot. He possesses so much talent and he's a hard-hitter. Having two safeties who can lay the wood is a wonderful thing for the secondary. I would hate to lose him if he is still "coachable" and willing to make the changes that the coaching staff is asking of him.
 
Maybe they just don't feel Butler can do the job as well, or maybe they think he's just too athletically gifted to take him off the field. Either way, he's got some learning to do.

I agree with most of what you wrote. On this one, it may have been lack of faith in Butler's early play, but he's improved since that time. So it makes me wonder if perhaps they think they lose less in the pass defense with Chung in there vs. what they lose in run support with Butler in there.

Chung is usually playing coverage when we have 5 DBs out there, either in a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5, so his run support is extremely valuable.
 
I've been checking the net looking for possible Pats alternates to the Pro Bowl, and have come up empty handed. Several other teams have lists of alternates, and the succession in which they'll be picked, but nothing on the Pats.

Anyone have any info on who else from the Pats might get in?
 
Who honestly cares about the Pro-Bowl it is a worthless game.
 
Re: Pro Bowl voting & Patriot players

Yeah, obviously the players and coaches know nothing. :rolleyes:

Meriweather is much better than the "31 Iz SUK" brigade at PatsFans.com gives him credit for. Get over it, haters.

I forget who it was, maybe Matt Light.

He said they get like 10 minutes to vote and don't really care they just want to get it out of the way to get to practice. Then they pick based who's name they recognize.
 
Wow, this is still going on? People sure do hate Meriweather around here.
 
Wow, this is still going on? People sure do hate Meriweather around here.

With Watson, Maroney and Moss gone, someone had to become the whipping boy.
 
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