Pro Bowl voting & Patriot players (merged many times)

[drew4008]

Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Why don't you go ahead and rate the safeties in the AFC for us?

Well here's all the AFC safeties I'd put above him, not in order except for by division:

Whitner
Bell
Leonhard
Chung
Landry
Ward
Polamalu
Clark
Bethea
Hope
Griffin
Dawkins
Berry
Weddle
Branch
Huff

 

[patriotscpfc]

Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Well here's all the AFC safeties I'd put above him, not in order except for by division:

Whitner
Bell
Leonhard
Chung
Landry
Ward
Clark
Bethea
Hope
Griffin
Dawkins
Berry
Weddle
Branch
Huff

Other than adding Polamalu, Reed, B.Sanders (when healthy... so one game a year), J.Sanders, Byrd and Zbikowski. Removing Bethea, probably Huff and maybe Griffin.

I agree with the list.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Re: Pro Bowl voting & Patriot players

No. I don't mind different opinions on things that are legitimately arguable. That's a large part of what makes sports discussions fun. Barry Sanders v. Jim Brown v. Walter Payton v. Bo Jackson, etc... That's good stuff. The reason you must be hitting the pipe is because you're making ridiculous assertions. There's a difference. Meriweather is the team's starter. Page is not. Either BB is unjustly holding Page back, or he doesn't have Page ranked higher than those ahead of him. To the best of my knowledge, the only situation where BB has ever really deferred making the switch in such a case was Brady/Bledsoe.

It's the same reality that the Maroney basher, Light bashers, etc... like to ignore when they insist a backup is better than the starter on this team.

However, I'm not a Maroney basher even though I defended Green-Ellis vs those who wanted to cut him. Same with Light. The only guy I think i've ever bashed is Meriweather and possibly Koppen at some point. I also believe I really underrated Mankins earlier in the year although I still think Dan Connolly is a startable Guard.

ProFootballFocus is a joke of a site. Why would I look there? As for the writers, the Pro Bowl is determined largely (2/3) by coaches and players. I'll take that, generally, over what Mike Reiss and Ron Borges decide.

Agree on PFF, but you don't have this many of the local reporters (other than Gasper who thinks Meriweather is a HOF candidate) going after a player as terrible.

Then why is he the starter? In Buffalo, he played every snap, along with Chung. Page played 22 fewer snaps and Sanders barely saw the field. Is BB trying to hold back better players? Meriweather was also the safety who played the most snaps against the Jets, by a wide margin. The week before that, he and Sanders were the safeties with the most snaps, and the same thing happened the week prior. The week before that, it was Meriweather getting 77 of 78 snaps.

Sanders has had the flu. Unlike Mayo and Wilfork, we do have other serviceable options at Safety. Sanders played the first 3 snaps and then sat out. I'll agree that Meriweather is ahead of Page though. I'd guess that the 22 snaps when Page wasn't on the field, was when Chung was playing as Safety rather than Nickel.
Before the Jets, Chung was injured and remained banged-up for a few weeks after the Bye. We were badly hit at Safety through Chargers, Ravens, Browns, Steelers games. Page was also hurt at the time.

The truth is that there was a two week stretch between the Jets and Bills games where Meriweather wasn't a top snaps guy and, strangely enough, they coincided with a reported lateness issue. Outside of that, Meriweather is the team's #1 safety.

He isn't. Chung is.

You should explain all of this to Belichick. I'm sure he'd appreciate your saving him from continuing to make the mistake of believing that Meriweather is his best option at safety for most snaps.

No need, injuries and scheme aside, he is not our best option at Safety.

 

[drew4008]

Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Other than adding Polamalu, Reed, B.Sanders (when healthy... so one game a year), J.Sanders, Byrd and Zbikowski. Removing Bethea, probably Huff and maybe Griffin.

I agree with the list.

haha I had Polamalu and then erased him to organize it better and forgot to put him back on, but obviously he belongs there.

I actually don't think Reed deserves to be there... even back when everyone loved him I remember watching numerous film analyses on him, with the point of which being to show that he actually blows a lot of coverages. Now he's even more one-dimensional and wearing down with age.

I didn't like Griffin much before this year either, but he's put together a solid season, and at least belongs in the discussion here. Not sure about Byrd... I mean he creates a lot of turnovers, but he's just not a consistently good safety, not yet at least.

And I actually like Bethea. He's been one of the only ones on the back-end of that D to consistently be there for the Colts, and plays the run and pass both fairly well.

As for Sanders, it's tricky. Some weeks I think he's definitely a better option, and then others it seems like he makes mistake after mistake. Despite his 3 picks, he's a liability in coverage usually too. And BB continuously has Brandon's snap count significantly higher than Sanders', so there must be a reason for that too.

My wild card would be Page. He's looked so impressive lately, and in both the run game and pass game. I really hope his snap count increases and he can stay healthy.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Pro Bowl voting & Patriot players

However, I'm not a Maroney basher even though I defended Green-Ellis vs those who wanted to cut him. Same with Light. The only guy I think i've ever bashed is Meriweather and possibly Koppen at some point. I also believe I really underrated Mankins earlier in the year although I still think Dan Connolly is a startable Guard.

Agree on PFF, but you don't have this many of the local reporters (other than Gasper who thinks Meriweather is a HOF candidate) going after a player as terrible.


Sanders has had the flu. Unlike Mayo and Wilfork, we do have other serviceable options at Safety. Sanders played the first 3 snaps and then sat out. I'll agree that Meriweather is ahead of Page though. I'd guess that the 22 snaps when Page wasn't on the field, was when Chung was playing as Safety rather than Nickel.
Before the Jets, Chung was injured and remained banged-up for a few weeks after the Bye. We were badly hit at Safety through Chargers, Ravens, Browns, Steelers games. Page was also hurt at the time.


He isn't. Chung is.

No need, injuries and scheme aside, he is not our best option at Safety.

You agree that PFF sucks, but you cite it to attack Meriweather.

Meriweather gets the most snaps of all the safeties, and Chung plays a bunch of snaps as the nicke/dime DB while Meriweather remains at safety, but somehow Chung is the #1 safety.

As I said.... crack pipe.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Well here's all the AFC safeties I'd put above him, not in order except for by division:

Whitner
Bell
Leonhard
Chung
Landry
Ward
Polamalu
Clark
Bethea
Hope
Griffin
Dawkins
Berry
Weddle
Branch
Huff

When you come up with a list like this, you just demonstrate how silly your position is.

First, there are a boatload of players you listed that aren't nearly as good as Meriweather.

Second, you didn't bother to differentiate between the safety positions. Meriweather (and Reed) got in as free safeties, while Polamalu got in as a strong safety. As a result of the voting being based upon a split position, If you're not making the distinction, you're argument is useless.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

When you come up with a list like this, you just demonstrate how silly your position is.

First, there are a boatload of players you listed that aren't nearly as good as Meriweather.

Second, you didn't bother to differentiate between the safety positions. Meriweather (and Reed) got in as free safeties, while Polamalu got in as a strong safety. As a result of the voting being based upon a split position, If you're not making the distinction, you're argument is useless.

Brian Dawkins? LaRon Landry?

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

My favorite website...

Pro Bowl Snubs

Undeserving Pro Bowlers

 

[patriotscpfc]

Re: Pro Bowl voting & Patriot players

You agree that PFF sucks, but you cite it to attack Meriweather.

Meriweather gets the most snaps of all the safeties, and Chung plays a bunch of snaps as the nicke/dime DB while Meriweather remains at safety, but somehow Chung is the #1 safety.

As I said.... crack pipe.

The reason Meriweather doesn't go to Nickel/Dime DB rather than staying at Safety is because he cannot play that position.

Chung struggles with it as well.

One thing I would say is that the other Safeties named that are better than Meriweather, maybe if we saw them 16 games a season making mistakes then we'd be better placed to judge him.

When Sanders is on the field, we don't give up the big play. Give me that in our young bend but don't break defense ahead of a guy who gives away penalties, is out of position and tries to make plays rather than just doing what he's supposed to do.

We'll see in the play-offs who are the starters at Safety if all 4 are healthy.

I do like our situation though and said this at the start of Camp when we had McGowan instead of Page. 4 different Safeties who if play to their potential add a lot to the secondary.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Brian Dawkins? LaRon Landry?

Weddle.

Meriweather won't get back in once Berry starts to play lights out like he has recently (other than the Chargers debacle)

 

[JackBauer]

My favorite website...

Pro Bowl Snubs

Undeserving Pro Bowlers

Let me help you out for the future: that website is terrible.

 

[drew4008]

Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

First, there are a boatload of players you listed that aren't nearly as good as Meriweather.

Which ones? And why?

Second, you didn't bother to differentiate between the safety positions. Meriweather (and Reed) got in as free safeties, while Polamalu got in as a strong safety. As a result of the voting being based upon a split position, If you're not making the distinction, you're argument is useless.

That wasn't my point. I specifically said he's not in the top half of safeties in the AFC, and someone asked me to list who was better than him, so I laid out a rough list of who I would put above him.

 

[drew4008]

Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Brian Dawkins? LaRon Landry?

Yup I still think Dawkins is a fairly strong all-around player. And a true leader, which is worth a lot. And Dawan Landry of the Ravens, not LaRon.

 

[sbpatfan]

People get pissed at Meriweather for taking bad angles but I've never seen any animosity towards Chung for all the TDs he has given up.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Let me help you out for the future: that website is terrible.

I believe one of them will be on Patriots Playbook today.

Rooke slammed the site last week as did the PFW guys.

They met one of the guys from the website in the press box in Buffalo last week.

His rankings from actually being at the game (I asked him for them rather than buying a subscription) were pretty accurate compared to his ratings from TV.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Weddle.

Meriweather won't get back in once Berry starts to play lights out like he has recently (other than the Chargers debacle)

Except Reed is winding down, so there will be two competitive spots at FS in the AFC.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Yup I still think Dawkins is a fairly strong all-around player. And a true leader, which is worth a lot. And Dawan Landry of the Ravens, not LaRon.

That's not a whole of a lot better.

Have we watched many Broncos games this year?

 

[patriotscpfc]

People get pissed at Meriweather for taking bad angles but I've never seen any animosity towards Chung for all the TDs he has given up.

I recall Chung giving up a few, but not that many.

I'd add that this is Chung's first year as a Starter and his 2nd year in the system rather than the 4th.

 

[JackBauer]

I recall Chung giving up a few, but not that many.

I'd add that this is Chung's first year as a Starter and his 2nd year in the system rather than the 4th.

I'd guess more than Meriweather has. He gave up essentially the same touchdown twice in the Indy game. If that had been Meriweather, he would've gotten raked over the coals for it.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Re: Meriweather...pro bowler??

Except Reed is winding down, so there will be two competitive spots at FS in the AFC.

Good point that.

Meriweather can make the ProBowl from Houston starting next year.