Pope Francis says Atheists Can Be saved..

[DarrylS]

Holy Crapola, the Catholic Church has begun to catapult themselves into the 19th Century.. first he washes the feet of an incarcerated Roma youth, then he walks amongst the crowd at St. Peters Square.. and now this.

Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

“They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

 

[everlong]

If he condones birth control, premarital sex, homosexuality and a few other things I'm forgetting maybe I'll un-excommunicate myself and go to midnight mass with a certain RI poster to praise Jesus. Oh and admit he never rode a dinosaur of course.

 

[DarrylS]

If he condones birth control, premarital sex, homosexuality and a few other things I'm forgetting maybe I'll un-excommunicate myself and go to midnight mass with a certain RI poster to praise Jesus. Oh and admit he never rode a dinosaur of course.

I'll never go back, not matter what he does.. all I hope that amongst my catholic friends we will have more common ground.

Hope that the Catholic Church weaves its way back to its original mission, caring for the poor, feeding the hungry, waging peace, once again becomes a voice for the less fortunate and gets out of a lot the financial shenanigans that they have been involved in..

 

[RI Patriots fan]

You're not understanding what he is saying. Everyone is "redeemed" by the death of Christ. Jesus' death was sufficient to save all men.

But not eveyone is saved. Big difference.

He's saying that Atheists are redeemed as all people are redeemed and that they should strive to do good....as all people should strive to do good.

He's not saying you can deny the existence of God but still be saved if you help some people.

Another hack job by the Progressive media that is clueless when it comes to the Catholic faith.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

If he condones birth control, premarital sex, homosexuality and a few other things I'm forgetting maybe I'll un-excommunicate myself and go to midnight mass with a certain RI poster to praise Jesus. Oh and admit he never rode a dinosaur of course.

Sorry, he can't do that....all those teachings are part of the Universal and Ordinary Magisterium. They are infallible and will never change.

 

[DarrylS]

Sorry, he can't do that....all those teachings are part of the Universal and Ordinary Magisterium. They are infallible and will never change.

Vatican II changed a bunch of things that were thought to never change... including some decisions made by Magisteriums...

 

[DarrylS]

You're not understanding what he is saying. Everyone is "redeemed" by the death of Christ. Jesus' death was sufficient to save all men.

But not eveyone is saved. Big difference.

He's saying that Atheists are redeemed as all people are redeemed and that they should strive to do good....as all people should strive to do good.

He's not saying you can deny the existence of God but still be saved if you help some people.

Another hack job by the Progressive media that is clueless when it comes to the Catholic faith.

Blame the "Progressive Media", convenient talking point which means nothing.. perhaps this account is more palatable..

Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too! - Living Faith - Home & Family - Catholic Online

The disciples, Pope Francis explained, "were a little intolerant," closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that "those who do not have the truth, cannot do good." "This was wrong... Jesus broadens the horizon." Pope Francis said, "The root of this possibility of doing good - that we all have - is in creation."

"Even them, everyone, we all have the duty to do good, Pope Francis said on Vatican Radio.

"Just do good" was his challenge, "and we'll find a meeting point."

Francis explained himself, "The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart, do good and do not do evil. All of us. 'But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.' Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ, all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone!" We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there."

 

[everlong]

Sorry, he can't do that....all those teachings are part of the Universal and Ordinary Magisterium. They are infallible and will never change.

So the church must still condone things out of the bible like beating your slaves, taking concubines when you conquer another country but setting them free after 7 years (or whatever it is).

Bottom line the church will do whatever serves it's best interests so nothing is infallible.

 

[everlong]

I'll never go back, not matter what he does.. all I hope that amongst my catholic friends we will have more common ground.

Hope that the Catholic Church weaves its way back to its original mission, caring for the poor, feeding the hungry, waging peace, once again becomes a voice for the less fortunate and gets out of a lot the financial shenanigans that they have been involved in..

That's pretty much how I feel. The problem is you have certain people stuck in the inquisition and they haven't learned that Jesus didn't ride a dinosaur, the Catholic Church is a dinosaur on it's way to extinction. Hyperbole but the point is it's influence is waning and will continue to do so.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Vatican II changed a bunch of things that were thought to never change... including some decisions made by Magisteriums...

You have no idea what you're talking about...what else is new.

There aren't "Magisteriums".....there is only one Magisterium expressed ordinarily and extraordinarily.

Those teachings taught by the church infallibly have never changed, thus the term...."infallible".

The church has never......I repeat.....never.....contradicted an infallible teaching.

Do you honestly think that if you can't repeat something over and over again that you'll be correct? Provide proof....for once....about anything.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

That's pretty much how I feel. The problem is you have certain people stuck in the inquisition and they haven't learned that Jesus didn't ride a dinosaur, the Catholic Church is a dinosaur on it's way to extinction. Hyperbole but the point is it's influence is waning and will continue to do so.

Extinction....lol.

The Catholic church is growing worldwide so I'm not exactly sure how u can claim "extinction" for Roman Catholicism.


"On the same date Catholics in the world numbered 1,180,665,000 units with an overall increase of 14,951,000 units more than the previous year. The increase affects all continents: Africa (+6,530,000); America (+5,863,000); Asia (+1,814,000); Europe (+597,000), Oceania (+147,000). The World percentage of Catholics increased by 0.02%, settling at 17.42%. By continent: increases were registered in Africa (+0.3); America (+0.04) and Asia (+ 0.01), a drop in numbers was registered, like last year, in Europe (- 0.02) and Oceania (- 0.3)."



http://www.news.va/en/news/vatican-world-mission-day-catholic-church-statisti


Just because the church isn't growing in Progressive New England doesn't mean that it isnt growing in the rest of the world. Unless of course Africans and Asians have less value than New Englanders.
But darn those pesky facts again.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

So the church must still condone things out of the bible like beating your slaves, taking concubines when you conquer another country but setting them free after 7 years (or whatever it is).

Bottom line the church will do whatever serves it's best interests so nothing is infallible.

Wow....talk about ignorance of Catholic teaching.

The Catholic church doesn't "condone things out of the bible". That's evangelical christianity. The Catholic church formulates its doctrine and dogma from the entirety of Tradition (both oral and written)....not bible verse hunting. In fact, there was no universal agreement in the church on what the Canon of the Bible (which books) should be for about 4 centuries. So the church relied heavily upon oral tradition well before there was even a "bible".

The facts show a well documented font of teachings that the church has always taught. All you need to do is read the Ecumenical Councils of the church (there are 21 of them) and you will see infallible teachings that have not been contradicted. Not that you will, I'm sure. I'm sure you'd much rather stew in your ignorance.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Blame the "Progressive Media", convenient talking point which means nothing.. perhaps this account is more palatable..

Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too! - Living Faith - Home & Family - Catholic Online

LOL...and???

The article is basically saying what I just said:

1.) God wants all people to be saved (redmeption is universal)

2.) People should strive to do good

3.) Atheism is a sin

4.) the Pope isn't teaching anything new


What he isn't saying......again......is that you can reject Jesus.....do some "good" works and then you're in heaven.

 

[DarrylS]

LOL...and???

The article is basically saying what I just said:

1.) God wants all people to be saved (redmeption is universal)

2.) People should strive to do good

3.) Atheism is a sin

4.) the Pope isn't teaching anything new


What he isn't saying......again......is that you can reject Jesus.....do some "good" works and then you're in heaven.

Rolls your eyes like an infatuated school girl, but here is what you said yesterday, when you blamed some progressive bad guy thing..

Tap dance often..

You're not understanding what he is saying. Everyone is "redeemed" by the death of Christ. Jesus' death was sufficient to save all men.

But not eveyone is saved. Big difference.

He's saying that Atheists are redeemed as all people are redeemed and that they should strive to do good....as all people should strive to do good.

He's not saying you can deny the existence of God but still be saved if you help some people.

Another hack job by the Progressive media that is clueless when it comes to the Catholic faith.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Rolls your eyes like an infatuated school girl, but here is what you said yesterday, when you blamed some progressive bad guy thing..

Tap dance often..

It is so difficult to argue with absolute ignorance.

What I said today is exactly what I said yesterday.

Redemption and salvation......not the same thing.

Everyone is redeemed. All of humanity is redeemed. It doesn't matter if you accept or reject Christ, you are redeemed.



God takes the initiative of universal redeeming love

604 By giving up his own Son for our sins, God manifests that his plan for us is one of benevolent love, prior to any merit on our part: "In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins."408 God "shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us."409

605 At the end of the parable of the lost sheep Jesus recalled that God's love excludes no one: "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."410 He affirms that he came "to give his life as a ransom for many"; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us.411 The Church, following the apostles, teaches that Christ died for all men without exception: "There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer."412



http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a4p2.htm




But not everyone is saved.

Again, this is nothing new. This is has always been the teachings of RC.

BTW....and again.......just because the Pope "says something" doesn't guarantee it to be true. That guarantee applies only to statements made "ex cathedra".

 

[DarrylS]

D'em Catholics sure like form over function, there seems to be general consensus over what he meant, except amongst the hard core..

Sure he would not have said it if he did not mean it.. of course, there is always the Baltimore Catechism.. salvation is not an exclusive club of the Catholic Church...

Catholics do not have exclusive authority on this, there are higher powers who will ultimately make the decision.. they think they do, but they do not..

Always find it interesting how the hard core get hung up rules, rather than the message that Francis actually gave.. “We must meet one another doing good”, which is ignored as there is more concern about rules and catechisms, than doing good works.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

D'em Catholics sure like form over function, there seems to be general consensus over what he meant, except amongst the hard core..

Sure he would not have said it if he did not mean it.. of course, there is always the Baltimore Catechism.. salvation is not an exclusive club of the Catholic Church...

Catholics do not have exclusive authority on this, there are higher powers who will ultimately make the decision.. they think they do, but they do not..

Always find it interesting how the hard core get hung up rules, rather than the message that Francis actually gave.. “We must meet one another doing good”, which is ignored as there is more concern about rules and catechisms, than doing good works.

Yes, there is a general consensus among the ignorant as well as the learned.
The learned understand what he really meant and can provide evidence to substantiate their claim. The ignorant rely on the Progressive media to interpret the Catholic Pontiff.



I have no problem with what he said and in fact...once again...it is a teaching of the church.


1803 "Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."62

A virtue is an habitual and firm disposition to do the good. It allows the person not only to perform good acts, but to give the best of himself. The virtuous person tends toward the good with all his sensory and spiritual powers; he pursues the good and chooses it in concrete actions.

The goal of a virtuous life is to become like God.63


Catechism of the Catholic Church - The virtues


So once more the Pope is teaching the Catholic faith....surprise, surprise.

 

[everlong]

Wow....talk about ignorance of Catholic teaching.

The Catholic church doesn't "condone things out of the bible". That's evangelical christianity. The Catholic church formulates its doctrine and dogma from the entirety of Tradition (both oral and written)....not bible verse hunting. In fact, there was no universal agreement in the church on what the Canon of the Bible (which books) should be for about 4 centuries. So the church relied heavily upon oral tradition well before there was even a "bible".

The facts show a well documented font of teachings that the church has always taught. All you need to do is read the Ecumenical Councils of the church (there are 21 of them) and you will see infallible teachings that have not been contradicted. Not that you will, I'm sure. I'm sure you'd much rather stew in your ignorance.

The old testament predates the Catholic Church. The church itself has debated the infallible nature of the bible itself over the centuries so it's not cut and dry including at the Catholic councils. But in general the view is that it is sacred and beyond corruption. Thus I can cherry pick all I want because I know you'll just avoid anything that doesn't correspond to your parochial, and I mean limited, point of view.

 

[DarrylS]

Yes, there is a general consensus among the ignorant as well as the learned.
The learned understand what he really meant and can provide evidence to substantiate their claim. The ignorant rely on the Progressive media to interpret the Catholic Pontiff.



I have no problem with what he said and in fact...once again...it is a teaching of the church.


1803 "Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."62

A virtue is an habitual and firm disposition to do the good. It allows the person not only to perform good acts, but to give the best of himself. The virtuous person tends toward the good with all his sensory and spiritual powers; he pursues the good and chooses it in concrete actions.

The goal of a virtuous life is to become like God.63


Catechism of the Catholic Church - The virtues


So once more the Pope is teaching the Catholic faith....surprise, surprise.

Roll your eyes like a junior high school girl, perhaps it displays your emotional age.. my commentary has nothing to do with the progressive media, it has to do with cited catholic publications..

Find your commentary hypocritical and shallow, particularly after your lengthy diatribe on not wanting to help the homeless....

 

[everlong]

Roll your eyes like a junior high school girl, perhaps it displays your emotional age.. my commentary has nothing to do with the progressive media, it has to do with cited catholic publications..

Find your commentary hypocritical and shallow, particularly after your lengthy diatribe on not wanting to help the homeless....

That's what he does in every thread. Demean whoever disagrees with insults and eye rolls and put on the superior mask. He is a microcosm of why I'm proud to have left such a hypocritical and narrow minded religion.