Please convince me that Simmons and/or Beason fit the Patriots system

[Remix 6]

Why would the Bears move the best safety in the draft to LB when they drafted Brian Urlacher? I agree that it would be a stretch that they would move Vilma to safety, but I was throwing out hypotheticals.

I do think Vilma does have the skill set to play safety in the Mangini/Belichick system. It isn't about straight line speed. If straight line speed meant anything, Bethel Johnson would be an All Pro. But Vilma plays well in coverage in spaces and good recovery speed and can turn on a dime. Those translate well at SS.

since u bring up Urlacher. how big was he in college? He was not even 240. Now hes listed at 258. Whats that say..to make the move to MLB ..he added weight. So for Beason..to make the move to ILB, he would add weight.

 

[DaBruinz]

2. Vilma is a 4-3 OLB all day long. He is not a SS.

Actually, Vilma is a 4-3 MLB all day long.

Beason's strength is that he has instincts and can cover RBs and TEs coming out of the backfield. He's also solid against the run. In the 3-4, the goal is for the D-line to Neutralize the O-line to free the LBs to clog the holes. Beason supposedly has the leg strength and technique to do so, despite his size. Could he get washed out by a guard? Yep. But so does Bruschi. I've seen Vrabel washed out by a guard at times also.

It is the intangibles that Beason brings that remind me of Bruschi.

 

[Rob0729]

1. Urlacher was NOT the "best Safety in the draft", he was a Safety that was projected to play LB the entire time.

2. Vilma is a 4-3 OLB all day long. He is not a SS.

Urlacher was predicted as safety or a LB. I will give you that, but he wasn't definitely not guaranteed at LB.

I agree that Vilma is a 4-3 OLB. That doesn't make him a 3-4 ILB.

Adalius Thomas is 270 and he played safety and CB for the Ravens.

Why is moving Vilma to SS outside the realm of even possibility? I think he could play SS for the Jets. Will he? Doubtful.

 

[DaBruinz]

Rob0729 - You made a comment earlier saying that the common thought was that Bruschi was too small for the Pats system. Who's common thought was that because many people on here think that Bruschi is the prototypical WILB for the Pats 3-4 system?

BTW, anyone else find it curious that Bruschi is the one who moves to SILB though he gives up 10 lbs on Vrabel?

 

[TripleOption]

Adalius Thomas is 270 and he played safety and CB for the Ravens.

Why is moving Vilma to SS outside the realm of even possibility? I think he could play SS for the Jets. Will he? Doubtful.

Thomas played those positions due to injury and as a "gadget". If you dig deeper, offensive coaches who saw him lined up there loved it. It speaks to his athleticism, but as a rule he would be awful in the Secondary.

Vilma will NEVER play SS in the NFL.

 

[TripleOption]

BTW, anyone else find it curious that Bruschi is the one who moves to SILB though he gives up 10 lbs on Vrabel?

TECHNIQUE.

 

[DaBruinz]

Urlacher was predicted as safety or a LB. I will give you that, but he wasn't definitely not guaranteed at LB.

I agree that Vilma is a 4-3 OLB. That doesn't make him a 3-4 ILB.

Adalius Thomas is 270 and he played safety and CB for the Ravens.

Why is moving Vilma to SS outside the realm of even possibility? I think he could play SS for the Jets. Will he? Doubtful.

I'm curious as to who predicted Urlacher as a safety because, even though he was a Free Safety (Lobo Backer), he was projected as an ILB/OLB from what I can find.

 

[Rob0729]

Actually, Vilma is a 4-3 MLB all day long.

Beason's strength is that he has instincts and can cover RBs and TEs coming out of the backfield. He's also solid against the run. In the 3-4, the goal is for the D-line to Neutralize the O-line to free the LBs to clog the holes. Beason supposedly has the leg strength and technique to do so, despite his size. Could he get washed out by a guard? Yep. But so does Bruschi. I've seen Vrabel washed out by a guard at times also.

It is the intangibles that Beason brings that remind me of Bruschi.

You are right about Vilma. He is a MLB in the 4-3. Doesn't make him an ILB in the 3-4.

You could be right about Beason. I didn't say there was no way he could be good in our system. All our LBs do get washed out by guards from time to time. It is the frequency. Maybe Beason can overcome the size, but maybe not. If the Pats feel he can, I won't question it because they are rarely wrong with first round picks if ever.

 

[Remix 6]

Urlacher was predicted as safety or a LB. I will give you that, but he wasn't definitely not guaranteed at LB.

I agree that Vilma is a 4-3 OLB. That doesn't make him a 3-4 ILB.

Adalius Thomas is 270 and he played safety and CB for the Ravens.

Why is moving Vilma to SS outside the realm of even possibility? I think he could play SS for the Jets. Will he? Doubtful.

get it right..Vilma is a 4-3 MLB..thats where he was a stud last few seasons(besides last)

Thomas played CB/Safety for Ravens but Marvin Lewis said it was a little overhyped..he didnt play that great and he gave stats of other teams. As a CB all he did was jam the crap out of Chad Johnson and drive ihm out of bounds..thats it really

why are we even discussing Vilma as a safety? Hes not on our team..probably wont be..and Jets didnt move him so they think he can get better

1) People add weight in NFL. Beason doesnt need to start day 1 if he comes here. He'll add weight..learn technique.

2) Not all "smaller LBs" struggle in a 3-4. Donnie Edwards..228 pounds. Hes been great for them till he went to Chiefs

3) I gave u a quote..BB said Sims can fit inside a 3-4 despite his size at 5"11 225

 

[Rob0729]

I'm curious as to who predicted Urlacher as a safety because, even though he was a Free Safety (Lobo Backer), he was projected as an ILB/OLB from what I can find.

Again, I may be wrong. I thought he was predicted to play either. I ain't afraid to admit when I am wrong. And sometimes I am wrong a lot.

 

[TripleOption]

I'm curious as to who predicted Urlacher as a safety because, even though he was a Free Safety (Lobo Backer), he was projected as an ILB/OLB from what I can find.

Were the Lobos a 3-3-5 or 3-5-3 team at that time? If so, and he played in a Stinger spot (technically a Safety) he would be more like a LB.

I am pretty sure they did play a 3-3-5.

 

[Rob0729]

get it right..Vilma is a 4-3 MLB..thats where he was a stud last few seasons(besides last)

Thomas played CB/Safety for Ravens but Marvin Lewis said it was a little overhyped..he didnt play that great and he gave stats of other teams. As a CB all he did was jam the crap out of Chad Johnson and drive ihm out of bounds..thats it really

Sorry, I was just looking at the guy I was responding too. Why aren't you slamming the orginal poster?

Marvin Lewis was also the guy who supposably said to Borges that Adalius Thomas is waaaaaaayyyyy overrated. So if you listen to Lewis, we made a huge mistake signing Thomas.

 

[Remix 6]

Were the Lobos a 3-3-5 or 3-5-3 team at that time? If so, and he played in a Stinger spot (technically a Safety) he would be more like a LB.

I am pretty sure they did play a 3-3-5.

so he was like a Rover right? Which is what Aaron Rouse is

 

[Rob0729]

1) People add weight in NFL. Beason doesnt need to start day 1 if he comes here. He'll add weight..learn technique.

2) Not all "smaller LBs" struggle in a 3-4. Donnie Edwards..228 pounds. Hes been great for them till he went to Chiefs

3) I gave u a quote..BB said Sims can fit inside a 3-4 despite his size at 5"11 225

1.) Many players lose weight. Most who do have weight changes do gain, but many lose weight too.
2.) Donnie Edwards played in 4-3 for the Chiefs and a 3-4 for the Chargers. The Chargers use an one gap 3-4 defense. We use a two-gap. Very different systems.
3.) Ummm..... how many tackles did Sims have for the Patriots last year? Belichick thought Monty Beisel could play ILB for the Pats too. Same thing with Chad Brown. Belichick isn't perfect and since he never had a realistic chance of getting Sims, I wouldn't buy what he was selling on the guy. Maybe he was trying psych out Mangini (probably not since I can't see the Jets using that high of a pick on him) or Saban into taking the guy.

 

[Remix 6]

1.) Many players lose weight. Most who do have weight changes do gain, but many lose weight too.
2.) Donnie Edwards played in 4-3 for the Chiefs and a 3-4 for the Chargers. The Chargers use an one gap 3-4 defense. We use a two-gap. Very different systems.
3.) Ummm..... how many tackles did Sims have for the Patriots last year? Belichick thought Monty Beisel could play ILB for the Pats too. Same thing with Chad Brown. Belichick isn't perfect and since he never had a realistic chance of getting Sims, I wouldn't buy what he was selling on the guy. Maybe he was trying psych out Mangini (probably not since I can't see the Jets using that high of a pick on him) or Saban into taking the guy.

the players who lose weight depend on their system.

Most LBs like to play around 230-235 in a 4-3 or Cover 2

Sims had 0 tackles for us because he got picked by the Lions. Chad Brown could of played a 3-4..but those were his early days. Beisel came cheap.. a 1st rounder means more confidence from coaches i would say

BB gave the Sims quote during the season when we versed the Lions..how would he try to smokescreen ?

 

[cstjohn17]

BTW, anyone else find it curious that Bruschi is the one who moves to SILB though he gives up 10 lbs on Vrabel?

I do! I wondered the same thing, not only does he give up 10-15 puounds and 2-3 inches but he is much worse at SILB than at WILB.

I don't understand it but people smarter than me make those calls. I hope we draft someone who can take some reps at SILB (Harris, maybe Bradley) so Bruischi can take more snaps at his more natural WILB position.

 

[Rob0729]

the players who lose weight depend on their system.

Most LBs like to play around 230-235 in a 4-3 or Cover 2

Sims had 0 tackles for us because he got picked by the Lions. Chad Brown could of played a 3-4..but those were his early days. Beisel came cheap.. a 1st rounder means more confidence from coaches i would say

BB gave the Sims quote during the season when we versed the Lions..how would he try to smokescreen ?

I didn't know when he gave the quote. Belichick is famous for overcomplimenting players he is about to play or just played. I don't know if it is the case in this instance since I don't know the context of the quote, but he has done it in the past. Belichick doesn't like to give bulletin board material and usually compensates by overselling the opponent.

By the way, I have said repeatedly that if the Pats draft Beason in the first round that I will trust their decision. They have spent far more time evaluating the guy than I or anyone on this board has. If they think his size isn't an issue, then I will abide by their decision. It doesn't mean I can't have serious concerns about his size until they actually draft the guy. People act like the Pats are definitely going to draft this guy. I have heard more of a rumor about Harris.

 

[TripleOption]

Again, I may be wrong. I thought he was predicted to play either. I ain't afraid to admit when I am wrong. And sometimes I am wrong a lot.

I can agree with you on that one point.

 

[Rob0729]

I can agree with you on that one point.

Well, you are an expert at being wrong. So I guess I will trust your opinion.

 

[TripleOption]

Well, you are an expert at being wrong. So I guess I will trust your opinion.

?? You have been wrong this entire thread. You even admitted it. If you want to talk X's and O's, I will toast you all day long. Your false sense of confidence is annoying. You know nothing.