Players to Watch at Combine

[Daigle]

I'd rather have one Wilfork + one Barwin/Avril than 2 Wilforks.

Actually two Wilforks in a 4-3 might be quite cool. Imagine teams trying to run the ball through the middle...

 

[DaBruinz]

Absolutely. Measurables are only a guide. The only consistency determining where or whether a player should be drafted is performance. If a player runs 0.06 below desired or has arms 1/3 inch below should not be what determines whether a player should be drafted at 27 or 34.

Courtney Upshaw does everything the Patriots require of an OLB. He sets the edge, he tackles well, he rushes the passer (there are some question marks about how good he'd be in coverage). Yes he's short and has shorter arms than what is preferred, but game tape says he can do almost everything we'd want. Is he an upgrade over Jermaine Cunningham? You'd better believe it - so there's a spot on the roster for him. Is he better than Ninkovich or Anderson? That's a better question. I don't think the answer to that question can be found in his arm length.

The point of the draft is to make the team better, not to create a collection of perfect specimens.

See, I disagree. Upshaw comes in at 6'1 4/8" tall. He's got short arms at only 31 5/8" and small hands at 8 5/8". While he may have been able to set the edge well at the college level, it's going to be a lot tougher to do so when an OT with 34+" arms gets ahold of him.

Upshaw screams 1 GAPPER, not 2 Gapper. He'd be a better fit for Pittsburgh, who I expect to take him ahead of us.

 

[DaBruinz]

Unless Brandon Thompson's arms measure at least 34", then I have no interest in him.
I'm more interested in his teammate Andre Branch's agility drills.
Even Little Bill must realize by now that we need to draft Pass-Rushers, not unathletic pluggers, early & often.

Thompson's arms are 32 5/8" long. From the Senior Bowl weigh-ins..

Senior Bowl Weigh-In Results | National Football Post

Thompson could be a good replacement for Mike Wright in sub-packages..

 

[Elijah T.]

Thompson's arms are 32 5/8" long. From the Senior Bowl weigh-ins..

Senior Bowl Weigh-In Results | National Football Post

Thompson could be a good replacement for Mike Wright in sub-packages..

I think we can get too caught up in measurements and triangle numbers, players can always compensate in one area for a lack in another.

Ultimately it's about how he performs in all conditions (top competition, low competition, down and distance, 1st to 4th quarter effort/stamina, year to year, different personnel), as well as how the talent and system around him affects his production...There's so many things that have to be considered on a prospect to properly rate his ceiling...and that doesn't even include his background, personal world view and general disposition.

You take a player like Greg Childs from Arkansas, who talent wise should be a secound round pick...But he had to recover from a torn patella last season..He may not even get drafted because he lacks production and his knee didn't fully regain it's effeciency- yet. But the team that gets him probably has a Braylon Edwards talent without all the drama and entitlement. His knee will be at it's best this year and next.

As far as Thompson, I'm not a big fan...I'd prefer Kendall Reyes or Josh Chapman a little later, I just think they're better football players.

 

[everlong]

See, I disagree. Upshaw comes in at 6'1 4/8" tall. He's got short arms at only 31 5/8" and small hands at 8 5/8". While he may have been able to set the edge well at the college level, it's going to be a lot tougher to do so when an OT with 34+" arms gets ahold of him.

Upshaw screams 1 GAPPER, not 2 Gapper. He'd be a better fit for Pittsburgh, who I expect to take him ahead of us.

Yep. He reminds me of Woodley at lot. Woodley was 32 7/8ths at the same height and they traded out vs drafting him.

 

[Metaphors]

Would you be interested in another Wilfork or perhaps Suh? Neither one of them have 34 inch arms.

Neither does Marcel Dareus or Mario Williams.

I'm not saying that Thompson should necessarily be a target for the Pats, but he looked like a mid-first round talent for Clemson. He seems to be slipping due to lack of production in pressuring the passer...but that seems overly simplistic to me. It doesn't take into account the Clemson scheme and the overall suckishness of the ACC passing offenses. Thompson has a consistent motor and is a bear to handle even with double-teams. If he slides to the late 1st or early 2nd, I think you take him and figure out how to get him on the field later.

As for the Pats getting pass rushers, I don't believe their problem this past year was attacking the pocket from the edges. The issue was preventing QBs from stepping up and hitting receivers in the middle of the field. Not overly surprising since their 2 guys tasked to do precisely that (Wright and Pryor) were on IR. Wilfork was able to press the middle at times and showed how effective the Pats defense can be when it happens...but he just played far too many snaps to expect him to do it consistently.

So I see someone like Thompson as eventually playing a multitude of roles all over the DL. Add a healthy Pryor and someone like Derek Wolfe and opposing offenses shouldn't be able to drop back and pass with impunity.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Neither does Marcel Dareus or Mario Williams.

I'm not saying that Thompson should necessarily be a target for the Pats, but he looked like a mid-first round talent for Clemson. He seems to be slipping due to lack of production in pressuring the passer...but that seems overly simplistic to me. It doesn't take into account the Clemson scheme and the overall suckishness of the ACC passing offenses. Thompson has a consistent motor and is a bear to handle even with double-teams. If he slides to the late 1st or early 2nd, I think you take him and figure out how to get him on the field later.

As for the Pats getting pass rushers, I don't believe their problem this past year was attacking the pocket from the edges. The issue was preventing QBs from stepping up and hitting receivers in the middle of the field. Not overly surprising since their 2 guys tasked to do precisely that (Wright and Pryor) were on IR. Wilfork was able to press the middle at times and showed how effective the Pats defense can be when it happens...but he just played far too many snaps to expect him to do it consistently.

So I see someone like Thompson as eventually playing a multitude of roles all over the DL. Add a healthy Pryor and someone like Derek Wolfe and opposing offenses shouldn't be able to drop back and pass with impunity.

I didn’t know about those 2, pretty surprised about Williams, figured at 6’6 he’d have very long arms. I’m actually warming up to Thompson since you mentioned him, I’ve been watching some game tape of his and like what I see. To a certain extent he seems like a perfect target, we want guys that are undervalued because they were in a scheme that didn’t get to showcase all of their talents.

With Thompson, Wolfe, and Cam Johnson we'd certainly improve the defense.

 

[Metaphors]

With Thompson, Wolfe, and Cam Johnson we'd certainly improve the defense.

I really like Cam Johnson as well. Has shown the ability to play on his feet or with his hand on the ground. One red flag is that he has sickle cell trait like Ryan Clark. It has been speculated that it has affected his stamina and caused him to fade in the 2nd half of games. Looks to have the production and upside of a 2nd round pick but he may slip all the way to day 3. That could make him a tremendous value for the Pats...assuming the expectations include limiting snaps and skipping any trips to Denver.

 

[captain stone]

Neither does Marcel Dareus or Mario Williams.

I'm not saying that Thompson should necessarily be a target for the Pats, but he looked like a mid-first round talent for Clemson. He seems to be slipping due to lack of production in pressuring the passer...but that seems overly simplistic to me. It doesn't take into account the Clemson scheme and the overall suckishness of the ACC passing offenses. Thompson has a consistent motor and is a bear to handle even with double-teams. If he slides to the late 1st or early 2nd, I think you take him and figure out how to get him on the field later.

As for the Pats getting pass rushers, I don't believe their problem this past year was attacking the pocket from the edges. The issue was preventing QBs from stepping up and hitting receivers in the middle of the field. Not overly surprising since their 2 guys tasked to do precisely that (Wright and Pryor) were on IR. Wilfork was able to press the middle at times and showed how effective the Pats defense can be when it happens...but he just played far too many snaps to expect him to do it consistently.

So I see someone like Thompson as eventually playing a multitude of roles all over the DL. Add a healthy Pryor and someone like Derek Wolfe and opposing offenses shouldn't be able to drop back and pass with impunity.

Thompson seems to more closely fit the role of Myron Pryor than of Mike Wright. I would prefer to use
my 1st-rounder - the value otherwise being equal - on someone with more length & explosiveness,
esp. if Bill believes that Pryor can return to full potential in 2012.
Now if Bill wants to use both 1sts on an edge defender and Thompson, then I won't complain either.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Thompson seems to more closely fit the role of Myron Pryor than of Mike Wright. I would prefer to use
my 1st-rounder - the value otherwise being equal - on someone with more length & explosiveness,
esp. if Bill believes that Pryor can return to full potential in 2012.
Now if Bill wants to use both 1sts on an edge defender and Thompson, then I won't complain either.

Who do you have in mind to get? I have so many binkies at this point I need BB to trade back and I still don't know if we can get them all.

 

[bucky]

Jared Crick is an interesting one for me. I'd like to see him come in at 290+ with long arms. The 2 great seasons followed by 1 so-so injury-riddled season just screams "value".

 

[captain stone]

Who do you have in mind to get? I have so many binkies at this point I need BB to trade back and I still don't know if we can get them all.

Among the OLB/DE types, I don't expect Upshaw to last til 27, so I'll be looking for one of
Hightower, Andre Branch & Whitney Mercilus;
among the DT/DE types, I don't expect Brockers to last til 27, so I'll be looking for one of
Fletcher Cox & Devon Still;
and among the 4-3 DT types, there's Jerel Worthy & Brandon Thompson.

I don't know if Melvin Ingram & Quinton Coples really fit the defense that might be run next season.

 

[Sciz]

I don't know if Melvin Ingram & Quinton Coples really fit the defense that might be run next season.

Ingram will never fit a Belichick defense. He's a tweener, is short, has T-Rex arms, and has a ton of bad tape from this past season. That's not a good combination.

 

[VrabelJr]

Coples fits any defense really. He can play every position along the D-Line. He played DE and DT in college and most analysts think he has the tools to play the 5-tech in a 3-4.

This years DE/OLB class is the worst in a while (for our scheme, anyway). I wouldn't use a 1st rounder on one. I'd wait until the 2nd if guys like Vinny Curry or Andre Branch fall to us or the 3rd round on a guy like Brandon Lindsey.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Jared Crick is an interesting one for me. I'd like to see him come in at 290+ with long arms. The 2 great seasons followed by 1 so-so injury-riddled season just screams "value".

Weren't his great seasons when he was playing next to Suh?

 

[VrabelJr]

No, Crick's first year after Suh left was nearly identical to when Suh was there. He struggled last year but he was playing through injury and then had to forfeit the season due to a pectoral tear. This guy was a 1st rounder before his injury. A good combine and pro day could put him back up there. We'll see.

 

[mrscruff]

Ryan Broyles will also be an interesting player to monitor at the combine.

Edit: Scratch that. He will only bench and interview.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Jared Crick is an interesting one for me. I'd like to see him come in at 290+ with long arms. The 2 great seasons followed by 1 so-so injury-riddled season just screams "value".

I wonder if Crick is fully healed and will he be ready to go by start of TC.

Crick's ceiling is low, but I remain convinced that Still, Brockers aned Cox will be off the board by the time we pick at #27. Unfortunately unlike Brockers, I do not view Still or Cox as talents I would trade up for.

Reyes of Uconn is another guy with a low ceiling that projects to be available when we draft in the second round as well.

PS: when I say "low ceiling" I mean as compared to Cox, Still or especially Brockers.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

I wonder if Crick is fully healed and will he be ready to go by start of TC.

Crick's ceiling is low, but I remain convinced that Still, Brockers aned Cox will be off the board by the time we pick at #27. Unfortunately unlike Brockers, I do not view Still or Cox as talents I would trade up for.

Reyes of Uconn is another guy with a low ceiling that projects to be available when we draft in the second round as well.

PS: when I say "low ceiling" I mean as compared to Cox, Still or especially Brockers.

Right now, I wouldn't touch Crick in the 1st round (and I like Crick) but if he is there late in the 2nd round, I' would pull the trigger.

 

[MagnumPI5]

A CB to look out for, possibly with one of our second round picks, is UGA's Brandon Boykin. On the diminutive side, which is why he might be available in the second round, but he is physical and extremely quick (perfect, for at least early on, as a slot CB). Also, Boykin is an excellent kick returner, so he could contribute right away in that department.