Philosophical Question: Is Brady a better QB without Moss?

[Lansdowne]

Brady is the best quarterback Moss has ever worked with. Moss is the best receiver Brady has ever worked with. It's a match made in heaven. Both players established themselves as elite at their position before they joined forces in 2007. It's hard to say whether or not Brady is a better QB with or without Moss.

Brady can succeed on offense better with Moss on the field than, say, Reche Caldwell. That much is obvious. But I think it'd be harder (not impossible, mind you, just harder) for Brady to post gaudy passing numbers without Moss. They make each other better.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

yes brady is a much better qb without moss . with any luck moss will be gone after this year and we will see it with our own eyes. seems to me the only routes randy runs are long bombs or maybe a short out every now and then. i cant remember the last time i saw moss run a route in the middle of the field and that just makes the problem worse. i miss the brady who would throw the ball to who ever was open period.

Except the stats say hes been better. The reason they havent won as many games or super bowls is because the defense has taken several steps backwards. If it wasnt for Brady. Moss Welker and the Offense the way its constructed we wouldnt have a prayer of making the playoffs.
Now in a couple years when Brady's a little older the offense will be constrcted differently but the defense should be much better and they wont rely as much on the offense.
I dont think perception is reality in this case and its magnified by the loss to the Jets.

Funny thing is, the defense didn't do anything on that 4th down play against the Titans. Drew Bennett was wide open and flat out dropped the pass. Had he caught it, the Titans probably would've ended up scoring to win the game.

If you remember it was a low scoring first half them injuries decimated the secondary, then it turned into a shootout, probably one of the most exciting super bowls ever.

 

[Kontradiction]

yes brady is a much better qb without moss . with any luck moss will be gone after this year and we will see it with our own eyes. seems to me the only routes randy runs are long bombs or maybe a short out every now and then. i cant remember the last time i saw moss run a route in the middle of the field and that just makes the problem worse. i miss the brady who would throw the ball to who ever was open period.

You should probably stick to baseball and basketball. Moss, throughout his career, has never ran routes over the middle. And, as a matter of fact, he's ran routes over the middle a ton more here than he has with other teams. Since you can't remember a single time yourself, I'll point to one you might be able to remember - 2007 against the Colts with the one handed grab.

Does he do it a lot? No. He's a thoroughbred who has even said that he's here just to stretch the field. So, with that in mind, if the team was expecting an old dog to learn new tricks and run over the middle of the field on just about every play, then that's on the team. Me? I'd like to think that the team knew what it was getting when they traded for him.

 

[condon84]

Well, Brady won three SB rings without Randy and Wes, so..............

 

[Synovia]

Is Brady a better QB without one of the best receivers in the game? No. He's still Tom Brady... only without said receiver to work with.

I agree with the OP. I think Brady IS a better QB when Moss isn't there. If its Brandon Tate double covered down the side, Brady chucks the ball into the stands intead of throwing the pick.

That being said, the Patriots Passing Offense is clearly better with Moss. I just think Brady forces balls to Moss every once in a while, something he doesn't do with anyone else.

 

[Kontradiction]

I agree with the OP. I think Brady IS a better QB when Moss isn't there. If its Brandon Tate double covered down the side, Brady chucks the ball into the stands intead of throwing the pick.

That being said, the Patriots Passing Offense is clearly better with Moss. I just think Brady forces balls to Moss every once in a while, something he doesn't do with anyone else.

In the instances which spiked this thread, Brady wasn't "forcing" the ball to Moss. Moss was one on one with Cromartie. The throws were just terrible.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

They mislead because you say so?

What do the 2 highest scoring offenses in the history of the NFL have in common?

That they didn't win a damn thing? Or do you mean personnel wise...

 

[emoney_33]

I agree with the OP. I think Brady IS a better QB when Moss isn't there. If its Brandon Tate double covered down the side, Brady chucks the ball into the stands intead of throwing the pick.

That being said, the Patriots Passing Offense is clearly better with Moss. I just think Brady forces balls to Moss every once in a while, something he doesn't do with anyone else.

That doesn't necessarily mean he's a better QB. For example put that situation 20 times, he could be 0/20 0 TD 0 INT vs. 11/20 6 TD 3 INT. The "better" QB is not the one who went 0/20 in those situations.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

No.

The play calling IMO is 'better' without Moss. The OC, and to some degree Brady as well, feels that Moss is the best option on a lot of plays.

I have always loved the screen and for the love of god bring it back (albeit may be a bit harder without 33). We have some big kids out there on the ends. Get the ball into your playmakers like 11 and 83. Get that blocking down field. Am I going back to the glory years? Maybe. But that worked back then did it not?

Getting back to the original question, no, Brady is every bit as talented with or without Moss.

What does not jive with me is the play calling on this team... frig off and smarten up....

 

[MoLewisrocks]

In the instances which spiked this thread, Brady wasn't "forcing" the ball to Moss. Moss was one on one with Cromartie. The throws were just terrible.

Not sure what the question was, probably about the missed FG's, but I thought this was an interesting response from Belichick today

RapSheet Interesting from Belichick on Gostkowski's struggles: "Everyone wants to pin the INTs on the QB, everyone wants to pin the miss on the K"

He added, "there are other things involved".

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The most important stat, assuming a quarterback is productive (or in the case of someone like Brady, highly productive) is INT %. There is no better indicator of a team's success than keeping turnovers to a minimum. Brady has continued to throw INTs at a very low rate with the addition of Moss. I don't have the exact percentage, but in a strongly pass-oriented offense, 8 in 2007 and 13 in 2009.

People are overreacting to one game. Brady deserves a lot of the blame for the loss, but can you name an athlete who dominates 100% of the time.

 

[rojo8401]

Statistically no.
Championship-wise? Obviously yes.

I think some of us miss the Pats 'throw it to the open receiver' of the old days and some prefer the 'throw it to Moss in single coverage every time' of the last few years. It's a matter of personal preference.

I do think throwing deep to Moss hurts our defense in the long run and needs to be curtailed and scaled down in pre-game planning (according to Brady's recent "2 hours before the game" remark). Our defense needs to be kept off the field and the percentages on bombs will never be conducive to that. Brady to Moss deep cannot overcome the law of averages and physics no matter what occurred in 2007.

 

[Kontradiction]

Not sure what the question was, probably about the missed FG's, but I thought this was an interesting response from Belichick today



He added, "there are other things involved".

Not sure what the question was, probably about the missed FG's, but I thought this was an interesting response from Belichick today



He added, "there are other things involved".

There are other things involved, but those two interceptions were CLEARLY on Brady. The first was a horrible overthrow which nearly went out of bounds, but was just in bounds enough to be intercepted. The other throw, which was also pointed out by Rodak after film study, should have went further toward the sideline. Moss really couldn't make a play on the ball except getting one hand on it. If he had made the catch, he would have bailed Brady out and it would have been spectacular. But he didn't, and he was unable to bail Brady out.

Now, there are plenty of other instances where the INT is on the receivers and not on Brady. PLENTY. But this Sunday's INT's were not one of those instances.

 

[Water Boy]

Here's a PFW article on Brady's reliance on Moss in the Jets game.


ProFootballWeekly.com - Brady's reliance on Moss costs Patriots

 

[letekro]

The answer is so obvious it's not worth mentioning. Nobody thinks the catastrophic knee injury, and its lingering mental residue, is the primary reason for Brady's substandard (for him) post-2007 play? Seems pretty clear to me that he now rushes things by a fraction of a second when he feels pressure, whereas before he would stand in there till the last possible microsecond. These fractions of a second are the difference between pre-injury and post-injury TB IMO, and also the difference between a very good quarterback and a great one.