PFT: Tomase taking Red Sox beat, Guregian #2 on Pats beat

[Lloyd_Christmas]

does EVERY single person on this board care SO much about others, the reputation of the organisation, etc... that they are so angry ?

Yes.

Particularly because we see Tomase as a Benedict Arnold who turned on his home team and us and thrust the long dagger in our backs at the worst possible moment... and all over a lie! Something that at the very least he wasn't sure about.


If it had been done by some quack at FESPN, the anger would have been less IMO because the betrayal aspect wouldn't have been part of the equation... we all knew at that point that FESPN had it out for the Patriots and they are a national media, not a Boston media.

 

[Rob0729]

Personally, I never hated Tomase as much as other did. His sin was being overly ambitious to get the story first without making sure the story was correct. He meant no malicious intent with his article and he thought he had the scoop that would have made his career. Well, it did in a bad way.

Tomase was never like writers and talking heads at places like ESPN or the NY Times that maliciously went on a witchhunt on Belichick and slanted their stories and comments to smear his name. I have much more anger towards those organizations and individuals than I do Tomase. Personally, I would love to see the entire NYT sports department burnt at the stakes for being Arlen Specter's and Matt Walsh's PR department over Tomase losing his job.

 

[farn]

I think what that says about you is you are different from the average NEP fan. You're new to the team, not from the area, didn't follow it prior to it's winning, and are apparently more a fan of winning. Doesn't make you smarter than the majority of us, just makes you different and less invested in the franchise. People who have followed this team since it's or their own inception resent the fact that a local tried to destroy everything they rightfully cherish just so he could experience his 15 minutes of fame as the guy who toppled a dynasty.

The media is fond of saying it's all about story lines. Well, Tomase wrote his own. When a player or coach makes a mistake on or off the field, and even when they merely don't coozy up to them, the media shows them no mercy. In fact in NE they most often incite against that player or coach under the guise of it being their journalistic duty to bring his transgressions to our attention. Oddly when the shoe is on the other foot and journalistic transgressions are the issue, the double standard in invoked and they all get all warm and fuzzy and forgiving... The good old boy network circles the wagons and all we hear about is job pressure and intent and how demanding consequences would only potentially hurt their families...:blahblah:

This is a large market media town. Guys are vying for air time and attention. Mediots position themselves to become part of the story and local celebrities as part of a career strategy. In doing so they become as fair game for their audience as the athletes they cover. Sadly most mediots here eventually end up embracing that fact and simply milk it for all the career opportunities it's worth. Tomase is just another in a long line of self righteous, judgemental, vindictive, egotistical sports reporting hacks just earning a buck at someone else's expense. Given the state of the industry as well as the economy, most of them would be unemployed now if not for all the winning that has gone on here and all the brand loyalty it has fostered.

Not to mention without all the winning the fan base composition wouldn't be so diverse...

You're right on some points... not from the area... only a fan since BB came to town. Started listening to lots of EEI on my long commute to work. Got wrapped up in the "ditch BB" talk in that first year. Was an NFL fan, started watching all Pats' games (our affiliates had just changed from Detroit to Boston)...

BUT - when the winning stops, I'll be around. I understand losing. Diehard Montréal Expos fan. Don'T need to be told about losing. What I want is the team to win. Not as obsessed with their reputation.

 

[farn]

You are sooooo missing the point.

He broke a very poorly researched story that was as damning to the Patriots as one can imagine given the already frenzied spygate media hysteria and he did it on the eve of the Superbowl in order to score maximum damage with it to his home team. Did I mention it was a Superbowl in which the Patriots were undeafeted and could have made history?

C'mon! You can't see the significance?

Then later, when everyone and their grandmother knew the story was false, he and the herald stuck by their story and refused to apologize. They finally did apologize (sort of) when the evidence was so overwhelming that they were exposed as the utter fools they were. Tomase came out with apology attempt #1, the non-apology apology.

Sorry, that isn't cutting it for me. Then the Herald took no public punitive action against Tomase. No demotion, no reassignment, no firing, no nothing!

So many of us boycott the Herald even to this day. For me, the wounds aren't healed and the boycott continues. I don't really understand what this latest move is (was he fired? did he just take another job because he realized we don't forgive him?). Whatever the case actually is, I'm just glad he no longer covers the Patriots.

I have zero respect for Tomase or his editors or the Herald.

Hey. I'm still quite frustrated at the fact that no one got to Eli on the throw, that the ball went through hands,... that's what frustrates me the most : the game. Not the "gate" hype around the game.

I care about the games, winning, the Superbowl wins and losses... not the media.

If my woman cheats on me - I'm angry at her... she's the one I have a commitment with. You guys sound like the guy who gets screwed over and looks for the other dude to beat him up, when in fact you never had a relationship with him at all...

I am a NE Pats fan. I am frustrated they couldn't seal the deal in 05-06-07 and I am looking forward to them hopefully reversing that trend in 09. I don't care about the media. Most of you think I'm missing the point. I can live with that - just like I can live with the fact that Tomasse wrote a bad article and that sucks for him.

 

[Deus Irae]

Hey. I'm still quite frustrated at the fact that no one got to Eli on the throw, that the ball went through hands,... that's what frustrates me the most : the game. Not the "gate" hype around the game.

I care about the games, winning, the Superbowl wins and losses... not the media.

If my woman cheats on me - I'm angry at her... she's the one I have a commitment with. You guys sound like the guy who gets screwed over and looks for the other dude to beat him up, when in fact you never had a relationship with him at all...

I am a NE Pats fan. I am frustrated they couldn't seal the deal in 05-06-07 and I am looking forward to them hopefully reversing that trend in 09. I don't care about the media. Most of you think I'm missing the point. I can live with that - just like I can live with the fact that Tomasse wrote a bad article and that sucks for him.

Most of us think you're missing the point because....


you're missing the point.

By the way, when your wife cheats with a (supposed) friend of yours who knew that you were married and to whom, I'm willing to bet that the friend will be in the doghouse too.

 

[farn]

Most of us think you're missing the point because....


you're missing the point.

By the way, when your wife cheats with a (supposed) friend of yours who knew that you were married and to whom, I'm willing to bet that the friend will be in the doghouse too.

Don't think any of us ever thought Tomasse was BB's pal, but...

Well, no sense in really continuing this convo... I think everyone pretty much said what they think. On almost all points, I usually agree with the majority of the posters here (Baby Brady "news" lovers & OLB obsessors would be the exceptions).

So, the conclusion is that I should hate Tomasse because he's a guy who didn't do his job correctly by writing things that weren't true and unproven.

Very well. Since I'm alone in my argument, we might as well move on to more interesting July news.

 

[Patriots2001]

Not really sure why he's so hated. Sure, I understand the fact that he reported a story without a legit source... but wait - anyone who thinks that's the reason for the loss... come on...

Every adult has screwed up at work. He has paid a heavy price - heavier than most of us would have. Long story short : Tomase is getting shelled more than necessary. NE didn't fail to win because of him. We should move on.

He should of been fired IMO.He has a responsibility to confirm a story before he published it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Don't think any of us ever thought Tomasse was BB's pal, but...

Well, no sense in really continuing this convo... I think everyone pretty much said what they think. On almost all points, I usually agree with the majority of the posters here (Baby Brady "news" lovers & OLB obsessors would be the exceptions).

So, the conclusion is that I should hate Tomasse because he's a guy who didn't do his job correctly by writing things that weren't true and unproven.

Very well. Since I'm alone in my argument, we might as well move on to more interesting July news.

I don't hate Dumbasse. I think he's a lousy writer who made a mistake of epic (sports) proportions, and that he should have been fired immediately, along with the editors who ok'd the story. I think that as long as he stays in Boston without having to serve some time 'in the wilderness' as it were, he'll never regain any level of respectability with the local fans, and I think that despising him for his lack of journalistic ethics is something he more than earned. Oh, yeah, and I love the nickname.

Sometimes things aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[farn]

I don't hate Dumbasse. I think he's a lousy writer who made a mistake of epic (sports) proportions, and that he should have been fired immediately, along with the editors who ok'd the story. I think that as long as he stays in Boston without having to serve some time 'in the wilderness' as it were, he'll never regain any level of respectability with the local fans, and I think that despising him for his lack of journalistic ethics is something he more than earned. Oh, yeah, and I love the nickname.

Sometimes things aren't mutually exclusive.

I understand what's being said. I would have fired him IF I OWNED THE PAPER. I guess what I'll never understand is why the "gang" is so into it. I understand the points being forwarded, the opinions, etc... I just don't understand why they're so into it. I guess I just don't care about the media, don't think it affected anything more than the reputation of the team (which, might I add, was never that great because of people's perceptions of BB and the winning). And, if I read PFT correctly, the Cowboys are more hated than the Pats according to a survey...

I dunno. It's time for TC.

 

[Jackson 2]

Yes... lots of people should share responsibility. Back to my original point : he wasn't responsible for mass casualties or for football losses. I think BB would back me up that the Pats lost the SB on their own. The fact that people are so wrapped up with one article is beyond me. Yes, it was ridiculous. But to take it to the point people on here have taken it is a bit over-the-top.

Ask Jonathan Kraft what he thinks regarding the influence that "story" had on the Patriots' preparation for that game.

 

[Rob0729]

He should of been fired IMO.He has a responsibility to confirm a story before he published it.

I don't know if what he did was a firable offense. He had a source and he believed the source. He did approach the Patriots and gave him the chance to dispute the claim. He was wrong about not independently verifying his source, but plenty of journalists are guilty of that sin. Also, the sports editor deserves a lot of the blame for this because he is ultimately responsible for making sure every story that goes out is verified.

Tomase should have been disciplined for what he did. I don't think it reached the point of being a fireable offense though. It was bad and irresponsible journalism, but that happens every day somewhere in this country.

Unfortunately, the inflamatory nature of the story made it worse than many other cases of this type of irresponsible journalism. The Internet has pretty much lowered the standard of independent verification for many newspapers because the speed of the Internet has made news organizations decide that it is more important to be first than be right. This is just a really bad case of the current poor journalistic practice going on at every news organization in this country.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I don't know if what he did was a firable offense. He had a source and he believed the source. He did approach the Patriots and gave him the chance to dispute the claim. He was wrong about not independently verifying his source, but plenty of journalists are guilty of that sin. Also, the sports editor deserves a lot of the blame for this because he is ultimately responsible for making sure every story that goes out is verified.

Tomase should have been disciplined for what he did. I don't think it reached the point of being a fireable offense though. It was bad and irresponsible journalism, but that happens every day somewhere in this country.

Unfortunately, the inflamatory nature of the story made it worse than many other cases of this type of irresponsible journalism. The Internet has pretty much lowered the standard of independent verification for many newspapers because the speed of the Internet has made news organizations decide that it is more important to be first than be right. This is just a really bad case of the current poor journalistic practice going on at every news organization in this country.

The rumors weren't new; they had existed for many months. He didn't have a source with first-hand knowledge that the story was true; there was no such source.

What makes this particularly offensive is the timing of the article. Publish after the Super Bowl and there is clearly no impact on the SB because of the article. Of course, you also get less media coverage of the article (although not that much less since this is the Patriots you're talking about).

The reason to publish it the day before the SB was obviously to increase the Herald's exposure at the expense of negatively impacting the Patriots before the biggest game of the year. They succeeded. They cared more about publishing a poorly researched many months old rumor than they did for supporting the home town team in the biggest game of their history and possibly of all NFL history.

It would be amazing if some Patriot (and journalist integrity) fans didn't despise Tomase and his Herald editors after that.

 

[Jackson 2]

The rumors weren't new; they had existed for many months. He didn't have a source with first-hand knowledge that the story was true; there was no such source.

What makes this particularly offensive is the timing of the article. Publish after the Super Bowl and there is clearly no impact on the SB because of the article. Of course, you also get less media coverage of the article (although not that much less since this is the Patriots you're talking about).

The reason to publish it the day before the SB was obviously to increase the Herald's exposure at the expense of negatively impacting the Patriots before the biggest game of the year. They succeeded. They cared more about publishing a poorly researched many months old rumor than they did for supporting the home town team in the biggest game of their history and possibly of all NFL history.

It would be amazing if some Patriot (and journalist integrity) fans didn't despise Tomase and his Herald editors after that.

Right on the money.

 

[farn]

It would be amazing if some Patriot (and journalist integrity) fans didn't despise Tomase and his Herald editors after that.

I guess I'm the only one. I feel like I'm on Manny Island.

Read back... some say I don't "get it" because it has nothing to do with the SB. Yet, in recent posts, the SB and the hope for a perfect season is the main point in the arguments.

It was shoddy, crappy work that should be frowned upon by the Herald and by journalists. The fans' obsession is my main interest.

So, if I cared about journalists, I'd be quite confused. But, seeing as how I distrust all media - especially US media - I guess I'm not that surprised/shocked. The supposed "real" media can't even get stories straight without political slant. Almost all your TV media personalities are gorgeous - not very bright. I dunno... Dan Rather cries. FOX is political. Why is everyone so enraged about the "journalistic" side of Tomasse... he's just a local dude who followed one sports team. He supposed to be better than all the other losers out there ?

Yikes. Too much ranting. Let the farn-hate continue. TC yet ?

 

[Rob0729]

The rumors weren't new; they had existed for many months. He didn't have a source with first-hand knowledge that the story was true; there was no such source.

What makes this particularly offensive is the timing of the article. Publish after the Super Bowl and there is clearly no impact on the SB because of the article. Of course, you also get less media coverage of the article (although not that much less since this is the Patriots you're talking about).

The reason to publish it the day before the SB was obviously to increase the Herald's exposure at the expense of negatively impacting the Patriots before the biggest game of the year. They succeeded. They cared more about publishing a poorly researched many months old rumor than they did for supporting the home town team in the biggest game of their history and possibly of all NFL history.

It would be amazing if some Patriot (and journalist integrity) fans didn't despise Tomase and his Herald editors after that.

Tomase claimed he got confirmation and it was relevant because the NY Times and then ESPN outed Matt Walsh. It was the NY Times that started the whole thing rolling and then ESPN followed suit and then Tomase came out with his story. I still blame the Times and ESPN more. In fact, ESPN's story was worse because they stated that Matt Walsh claims he has information that is very damaging to the Patriots, but refused to show ESPN the information. That is a huge journalistic no-no since that is inflamatory without any verification that Walsh had anything. I always thought the Patriots could have sued ESPN over that.

I didn't like Tomase's article and I thought he should have been punished for doing what he did. I just don't think his is an Anti-Christ. I still blame the Times more since if they didn't do their story, there would have never been the Mike Fish piece in ESPN nor Tomase's piece in the Herald. They started the whole thing and then allowed Arlen Specter use them in his agenda.

Tomase's reputation is forever tarnished. He has already lost his Patriots' beat and will never be accepted by fans in this area. He is a running punchline among media. I think he has had significant punishment. I have moved on. I think guys like Mike Fish, Gregg Easterbrook, and Greg Bishop of the New York Times all went on a witchhunt on the Patriots and wrote far more vicious articles on Belichick and the Patriots and none were held accountable for their actions in the Spygate farce. I don't know why Patriots fans seem to want to continue to roast Tomase and give both Mike Fish and Greg Bishop a free pass eventhough they led the path for Tomase to write his article.

 

[farn]

I just don't think his is an Anti-Christ. I still blame the Times more since if they didn't do their story, there would have never been the Mike Fish piece in ESPN nor Tomase's piece in the Herald. They started the whole thing and then allowed Arlen Specter use them in his agenda.

Wow. This dude must not get it either. Thought I was all alone (still do) on this issue - but yeah... a semi-ally...

 

[Frezo]

Rob, Tomase was one of ours, a local guy. He wrote for our newspaper. Was close to our team, close to the fans. He betrayed our trust for his own greed. The other guys you mentioned, it was expected. There was no betrayal there. Their positions were long established as outsiders. Tomase and the Herald are getting exactly what they earned. That's a complete loss of trust from the fan base. "You reap what you sow"

 

[TruthSeeker]

I guess I'm the only one. I feel like I'm on Manny Island.

Read back... some say I don't "get it" because it has nothing to do with the SB. Yet, in recent posts, the SB and the hope for a perfect season is the main point in the arguments.

It was shoddy, crappy work that should be frowned upon by the Herald and by journalists. The fans' obsession is my main interest.

So, if I cared about journalists, I'd be quite confused. But, seeing as how I distrust all media - especially US media - I guess I'm not that surprised/shocked. The supposed "real" media can't even get stories straight without political slant. Almost all your TV media personalities are gorgeous - not very bright. I dunno... Dan Rather cries. FOX is political. Why is everyone so enraged about the "journalistic" side of Tomasse... he's just a local dude who followed one sports team. He supposed to be better than all the other losers out there ?

Yikes. Too much ranting. Let the farn-hate continue. TC yet ?

Let me help you out here.

Many people care about journalist integrity. You don't. If you care about something, then it matters when it is tarnished. What Tomase and his editors did tarnished that principle. You've made it clear that this is no big deal to you.

Many people here care about the Patriots. (Obviously.) What Tomase and his editors did, they did at the expense of the Patriots. They knew that this was a direct attack on the Patriots and they knew that they didn't have the sources to back it up. Best as I can tell, either you don't view this as a direct attack on the Patriots like so many of the rest of us do, or you don't really care about the Patriots reputation.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Let me help you out here.

Many people care about journalist integrity. You don't. If you care about something, then it matters when it is tarnished. What Tomase and his editors did tarnished that principle. You've made it clear that this is no big deal to you.

Many people here care about the Patriots. (Obviously.) What Tomase and his editors did, they did at the expense of the Patriots. They knew that this was a direct attack on the Patriots and they knew that they didn't have the sources to back it up. Best as I can tell, either you don't view this as a direct attack on the Patriots like so many of the rest of us do, or you don't really care about the Patriots reputation.

Exactly. Tomase ran with that story knowing full well that it wasn't corroborated and was speculative, at most. He outright admitted that he was so worried about getting scooped that he didn't exercise standard caution, and the Pats ended up paying the price for it. On a personal level, to this day I can't watch a Pats game in a bar out here in LA without some jackass Charger fan who's 3 chromosomes short of a full set ranting about how the Pats are cheaters, and using Tomase's article as their 'proof'. On a couple of occasions, I've literally brought Tomase's written apology out with me just so I can shove it in their faces when they don't believe that the Herald published a flat-out lie.

And frankly, I can't blame them for not believing me. The premise that a local newspaper would be so reckless in airing speculative dirty laundry about its own team is absolutely ridiculous. It makes no sense, but the Herald did it anyways. If I'm willing to grant Tomase anything on this one, it's that the editors who ran the story were even more at fault than he was.

 

[flasox27]

The fat slob bet his reputation on a lie and he should suffer the consequences of his action. He is not fit to be a writer for any legitimate newspaper in this country. That he still has a job with Herald speaks volumes about that paper. I have no use for his good buddy and defender Mazz either. It goes to show you how low the Globe sports section has sunk to employ that hack.