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PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA too?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by pats1, Jan 14, 2010.

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  1. pats1

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    League proposes immediate changes to rookie pay | ProFootballTalk.com

    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  2. BradyManny

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    The sooner the better. How the Seymour trade gets evaluated is directly tied to whether this gets done.
  3. BelichickFan

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    This should make the Patriots happy if it happens. It really doesn't matter if it happens this year, as long as it does happen by next year.
  4. mgteich

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    IMHO, a new CBA this year will NOT advantage the patriots. The restrictions on the top 8 would be rmoved. Gostkowski, Mankins and Woods would be RFA's.

    I find it unlikely that we would have a rookie pay scale without a new CBA.

    And yes, I do think a new CNA could be negotiated in the next month or two, moving out the free agency dates a couple of weeks if necessary.

  5. bradyovermanning

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    It's about time the rookie pay scale got restricted. the contract these guys are earning for no service time is ridiculous.
  6. Deus Irae

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    People continue to allow themselves to be played for suckers. There's already a rookie cap in the NFL.
  7. ctpatsfan77

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    The issue is not the rookie cap per se.

    The issue is the ridiculous proportion of the total salary cap that goes to players in the top 5-10 of each draft.

    It sounds like the NFL wants to create a system where the top rookie might get, say, $15M/4 yrs instead of $60M/6 yrs.
  8. robertweathers

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    Yes and no. We talked about the rookie pool and what it is supposed to do in other threads but the idea of a rookie cap is to prevent things like contract escalators, post first-year option bonuses and one-time incentives that are used to circumvent the actual purpose of the rookie pool. As you know, the intent of a rookie cap is to prevent the crazy money that is being doled out by owners. NFLPA reps have spoken out about this many times.

    Either way, its a provision to protect the owners from themselves...
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  9. ctpatsfan77

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    The problem is that the size of the rookie pool itself, combined with the exorbitant top-5 salaries basically forces these perverse contracts. [The rookie pool only gives about $3M or so to sign a top-5 pick.]
  10. WhoaDirty

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    There's a rookie pool cap. Which is not the same as what they are suggesting.

    I'm not sure I like the three year max contract thing ...
  11. Deus Irae

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    They want to avoid having to deal with the agents, because they've been getting their ass kicked in negotiations for years. This will allow the teams and, by extension, the league, to keep more money through the use of the same gimmick accounting they currently employ. After all, the only contracts that typically are truly "real" in the NFL are the rookie deals and the deals handed out to the truly elite players.

    Bad teams are bad because they draft poorly, handle free agency poorly, sign the wrong coaches and develop bad habits. Good teams that have bad years find Ben Roethlisberger in the draft.
  12. Rob0729

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    The problem is not that there isn't a rookie cap, it is the rookie cap does not prevent the top of the draft from having some of the most expensive contracts in the league. There is a cap on how much money each year that each team can attribute to their overall salary cap to sign their rookies, but that cap doesn't stop teams from giving out $50 million deals to players who have never played a down in football. It is more about getting a more rigid rookie cap where teams don't have to give so much money to unproven players while rookies can reach free agency faster.
  13. Rob0729

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    From a free agency standpoint, a new CBA does hurt since they have several key players who would be a RFA rather than an UFA without a new CBA. But with three second rounders this year and two first next year, the Pats would benefit greatly with a rookie cap. The Pats are in prime position to trade up and get several first round picks this year without worrying about gambling with high salaries.
  14. mgteich

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    There is already a rookie cap. A rookie pay scale would likely end up costing us MORE rather than less in the second round, if the scale even goes beyond the first round.

  15. ctpatsfan77

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    I doubt it would; remember that Butler got a deal worth about $4M at #41.
  16. MoLewisrocks

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    A rookie pay scale or wage/contract cap would not hurt us because it would open up the top of the round to us again. As for getting a new CBA, I think it's a ways off yet and this is just the first round of volleys. The owners won't settle for 3 year deals, maybe 4, or a two year extension of a bad CBA. Everyone has RFA's to deal with and part of any extension may screw those guys for a season as part of the settlement tradeoff, just like the 2010 draftees.... We have room to sign ours with the flexibility a new CBA would restore (as opposed to the restrictive limits in the expiring one) since one of the big two is a PK. We're probably in a lot better positon to carry on under a new CBA with a cap than some of the teams who were hoping for at least a one year get out of jail free card to unload some bad deals, including some they entered into under an expiring CBA. Might make it harder to trade a guy like Thomas is all... We can still tag Vince and he was the only one we would have.
  17. chevss454

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    I dont see how it would cost us more...isnt the whole idea to REDUCE rookie salaries? Otherwise, why do it?
  18. chevss454

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    Yeah, but that works both ways and in the long run could actually help the Pats to acquire a great player they otherwise couldnt/wouldnt touch.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  19. DarrylS

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    I really do not like this... many folks do not even reach their prime in this time.. go back to minimum of 5 years..
  20. mgteich

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    The whole is idea is NOT to reduce rookie salaries. Then whole idea is reduce the salary of the top 10 rookies in each draft who are now being paid way too much.

    Outside of the first round, rookies playing under rookie contracts are a inexpensive source of labor for all teams.


    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  21. Rob0729

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    First, if the league gets their way, none of the higher rounds will cost them more for a pick. They are offering the players a chance to get to free agency quicker in return of making rookie salaries across the board less. I don't there will be a second round exception. My guess if there is a chance that salaries increase after a certain round, it won't be in the first two.

    Second, my point is that with all those second round picks and a tighter rookie cap, it makes it more advantageous for the Pats to package picks and move up into the first round and get several first round picks or a top 10 pick by moving up their first pick packaged with a second rounder or two.
  22. mgteich

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    Let me make this rally simple. There is a rookie cap which is a total of a rookie cap for all rounds. There is an absoltely outragious amount being spent on the first 10 picks of the first round, and probably too much on the next 10.

    THE APPARANT PROPOSAL BY OWNERS
    is to reduce the total rookie cap and too have a rookie salary scale at least for some rounds. Their bottom line is to spend less on rookies.
    ======================
    THERE ARE MANY POSSIBILITIES
    that will include spending less rookies and reducing the ridiculous price for the top 10.
    ======================
    THE AGREEMENT HAS NOT BEEN SIGNED
    I will tell you now that it is unlikely to be signed if it means a decrease for every rookie no matter where he is drafted. It is clear that those drafted in the 3rd and later are being underpaid. Some of the excess being paid to the top 10 can be used to increase salaries for those drafted later, or not. The players are not just going to give up revenues.


  23. Urgent

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    The original article quoted says the NFLPA responded with several unacceptable proposals.

    Sure, we will agree to a rookie cap.
    All you have to agree to is to extend the currently unacceptable CBA, and agree to pay veterans out of your pocket, and agree to cap rookie deals at three years.

    Not likely.
  24. mgteich

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    I would suggest that it is in the interest of the vast majority of members of NFLPA to have a first round rookie scale with the same rookie CAP as this year. There might even be rookie MIN as well as a cap.

    And just BTW, there is a rookie cap now.

  25. muzz

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next - new CBA to

    At LEAST 4 years, 3 years is nowhere close to enough time, especially if there is an injury.....
    for the NFLPA to even suggest this is outright bogus, they know the real deal, and that tells me that they are not bargaining in faith, but in BS.
  26. Rob0729

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    We don't know how it will be panned out. I am betting the owners will want to have a reduction in pay in at least the first two rounds although they might accept status quo in the second. They might consider raising the pay scale in subsequent rounds. More likely than not, they will be more willing to give in on length to free agency, size and/or restrictions of tender offers to RFAs, and things of that nature than salaries in the first few rounds. I could be wrong.

    Besides, my original point stands that with all the extra picks, the Pats may decide it is more advantageous to use their first and second round picks and move up and get a stud in the top 10 if there is a salary cap or use picks to get multiple first rounders this year.
  27. fester

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    Hell out of the Top-15 or so, the rookie contracts are cheap contracts (assuming players play close to their projections, or at least as competent NFL starters by Year 3). For instance, Vollmer is costing under $4 million for four years TOTAL, try finding a competent left tackle for less than $4 million over two years on the free agent market; you won't unless you hit the jackpot on some practice squad wash-out.
  28. Deus Irae

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    Actually, the idea is clearly to reduce rookie salaries, at least if the article is accurate:

  29. mgteich

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    You might do the math. Start with very high percentage decrease for Pick 1 and move donw through the first round. Take that cash and create two pots, one for retirees and the other for 3rd round and later draft choices. You will find that the toal rookie saleries have been decreased and retiree pay has gone up.



  30. Deus Irae

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    Re: PFT: NFL, NFLPA looking into changing rookie pay THIS year, not next

    I have done the math. Perhaps you think that the top 10 teams will just be forking over all that excess money while leaving the lower 20+ out of it, relatively speaking?
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