PFT: Bill "has shopped" Mac

[moosekill]

I almost had to chuckle when you said said coaches lol.. I'm assuming you're speaking of this current coaching staff BOBs staff.. not last seasons. But I'd agree yes the coaches, And RK is a hands on owner he interacts with the players and is present at practices they say.

So yes to your point if a reasonable offer came in then I would think BB would run it by ownership. As we know as fans a player can still make the roster and be traded.

Oh yes of course, and I am not trying to insinuate that he should be traded, just that I wouldn't assume he won't be. Lots of trades happen during the draft, so if he is still here after the draft than I would assume he will still be here come preseason.

 

[Real fan 02]

Oh yes of course, and I am not trying to insinuate that he should be traded, just that I wouldn't assume he won't be. Lots of trades happen during the draft, so if he is still here after the draft than I would assume he will still be here come preseason.

Yes, I definitely see your point. I was thinking about when Jimmy G was here and I remember Curran on the radio saying that BB expored trading Brady..

Not much was made of it.. at that time
.. likely , Becuase we as fans couldn't even envision it happening.. however I think I remember something about San Francisco being involved.. however I mentioned it to say that once I heard a trade possibly was explored it wasn't surprising given the GOAT was almost traded. I'm like you I hope it doesn't happen, But it would not suprise me one bit! I then ask the question why allow Mac to put in all this work in the offseason, reworking the offense with BOB and staff just to trade him.

 

[moosekill]

The thing with Jimmy G was he had to be traded. The only way we could keep him was to franchise him, and I think at the time it was like $12mill. Having both Brady and his salaries would have really hurt the team, so everyone knew he had to be traded. Additionally, he had only played for 11/4 games and then got hurt in his 4 years, so no one really knew how good he was going to be, yet they still got a high 2nd rounder for him. That is what makes me laugh a bit when people say no way they get a 1st for Mac. Mac has shown a ton more than Jimmy ever did while he was with the patriots, and is cost controlled for 3 more seasons. I would be really surprised if they couldn't get at least a first for him. If they actually want to trade him.

 

[Real fan 02]

The thing with Jimmy G was he had to be traded. The only way we could keep him was to franchise him, and I think at the time it was like $12mill. Having both Brady and his salaries would have really hurt the team, so everyone knew he had to be traded. Additionally, he had only played for 11/4 games and then got hurt in his 4 years, so no one really knew how good he was going to be, yet they still got a high 2nd rounder for him. That is what makes me laugh a bit when people say no way they get a 1st for Mac. Mac has shown a ton more than Jimmy ever did while he was with the patriots, and is cost controlled for 3 more seasons. I would be really surprised if they couldn't get at least a first for him. If they actually want to trade him.

Yes, that's correct. I was just making light that if the GOAT was even mentioned for trade then it's not a suprise Mac was mentioned.. yes correct Mac showed he could be a leader his rookie season. Proven vets like McCourty and judon raved about Mac's leadership.

Jimmy g has made more $$ not playing football than actually playing.. I hope they don't trade Mac though

 

[Bill Lee]

Well, this is looking at it from a fan stand point. The coaches see him practice every day. They have a much better idea of what he can do than we as fans do, and how he fits with their future plans. If they have decided he has peaked out and that celing isn't high enough to go forward for the team, why keep him. Get rid of him as soon as a reasonable offer comes in.

I've made the same point earlier in this 50+ page thread: it is the GM's job to evaluate everyone on the team, and one of the few reasons it'd make sense for BB to "shop" Mac was if he decided he had hit his peak and there was no more upside available. But it is also part of the GM's job to "do what's best for the team", something BB says countless times. So, factoring in cost is not just a fan's point of view, it's also the GM's point of view. It's not either/or, IMO.

Evaluating production and cost at the same time is the reality of the job. If he moves on from Mac, he has to be convinced he has a viable Plan B where he can put someone who is an upgrade on Mac on the basis of production and cost. Given the fact most of us think Mac is a starting NFL caliber talent who is on a first round rookie contract, it's hard to do that. I don't buy the idea that Zappe is an upgrade on production, and I don't think the staff does either.

At the bare minimum, I think the "shopping" was never going anywhere because Mac has so much value. Even if he ends up being a backup instead of a starter level talent, it makes sense to keep him as a backup for at least the next two seasons given what kind of salaries backups get these days. And I feel the coaching staff realizes they haven't been able to put him in a position to perform at his peak over the last two seasons so they don't really know if he's peaked out or not.

 

[moosekill]

I've made the same point earlier in this 50+ page thread: it is the GM's job to evaluate everyone on the team, and one of the few reasons it'd make sense for BB to "shop" Mac was if he decided he had hit his peak and there was no more upside available. But it is also part of the GM's job to "do what's best for the team", something BB says countless times. So, factoring in cost is not just a fan's point of view, it's also the GM's point of view. It's not either/or, IMO.

Evaluating production and cost at the same time is the reality of the job. If he moves on from Mac, he has to be convinced he has a viable Plan B where he can put someone who is an upgrade on Mac on the basis of production and cost. Given the fact most of us think Mac is a starting NFL caliber talent who is on a first round rookie contract, it's hard to do that. I don't buy the idea that Zappe is an upgrade on production, and I don't think the staff does either.

At the bare minimum, I think the "shopping" was never going anywhere because Mac has so much value. Even if he ends up being a backup instead of a starter level talent, it makes sense to keep him as a backup for at least the next two seasons given what kind of salaries backups get these days. And I feel the coaching staff realizes they haven't been able to put him in a position to perform at his peak over the last two seasons so they don't really know if he's peaked out or not.

You are basing your judgement on Zappe based upon what? He had 21/2 very good games and 1/2 a crappy one. People here were completely drooling over Jimmy G after 11/2 games. I am not saying Zappe is the answer or even part of the answer, I am simply asking what you base your judgement on. Zappe was a rookie who came in with Mac getting all the starting reps. Bill almost never plays a rookie qb, and doesn't like to change mid season. My guess is I won't be surprised at all if Zappe challenges this spring for the starting spot, but we will see.

 

[oceansizer]

I do not know who is gonna be a QB - Mac, Zappe, Lamar or someone else. However if it is Mac ...that drama should be over right now. The kid needs to know he is the man and the team and coach support him.

 

[moosekill]

I do not know who is gonna be a QB - Mac, Zappe, Lamar or someone else. However if it is Mac ...that drama should be over right now. The kid needs to know he is the man and the team and coach support him.

I 100% disagree. He isn't the man. Bill has made that abundantly clear. There is going to be a competition to see who the man is. If he outplays the other qb's then he is the man for the season. He has to win that though, and I am not sure he will.

 

[oceansizer]

I 100% disagree. He isn't the man. Bill has made that abundantly clear. There is going to be a competition to see who the man is. If he outplays the other qb's then he is the man for the season. He has to win that though, and I am not sure he will.

"If"

 

[moosekill]

"If"

I misunderstood, but still disagree. Mac isn't the man, and he shouldn't go in thinking he is the man, they are professional athletes who should thrive on competition.

 

[oceansizer]

?

If Mac is the man....we do not know this. We only know what media give us and BB did not say he was not our QB officially.
So I only say if Mac is considered to be our QB he should feel he has a chance. And of course that process is not about being a first round draft pick but he should prove it via rivalary.

 

[Bill Lee]

You are basing your judgement on Zappe based upon what? He had 21/2 very good games and 1/2 a crappy one. People here were completely drooling over Jimmy G after 11/2 games. I am not saying Zappe is the answer or even part of the answer, I am simply asking what you base your judgement on. Zappe was a rookie who came in with Mac getting all the starting reps. Bill almost never plays a rookie qb, and doesn't like to change mid season. My guess is I won't be surprised at all if Zappe challenges this spring for the starting spot, but we will see.

My judgement is based on my perception on how the coaching staff used Bailey more so than his play on the field. As you suggest they seemed reluctant to use him and IMO favored Mac to a great degree. Also there was reporting on the Curran podcast that Tom and Phil both felt after interaction with insiders that Mac had the inside track and Bailey did not. This was at the height of the MJ vs Zappe controversy last season.

Yet I take BB at his word. Both guys will play a lot in TC and Bailey will be given a full evaluation. I think it's an uphill struggle for him to end up being starter, but if he plays noticeably better than Mac and it "makes the team better", I could totally see Bailey get the job.

Another variable is BOB. I presume he has major input on who is the starter. It would not surprise me the issue of starting QB came up when BB was negotiating with BOB, with BOB asking for and receiving at least a verbal commitment that he has major input on who the starting QB is.

 

[Bill Lee]

I do not know who is gonna be a QB - Mac, Zappe, Lamar or someone else. However if it is Mac ...that drama should be over right now. The kid needs to know he is the man and the team and coach support him.

Why do you think Mac needs such validation? He's already been through a lot in his career fighting for playing time in Alabama yet ended up being a National Champion. He should be able to recognize a media-manufactured drama after going through similar stuff in Alabama and have enough confidence to be able to deal with this kind of situation.

Personally I think it's the fans that want/need such validation. The media has stirred up so much **** that many fans have bought into, and they want to see it end, but it's not in the media's interest for it to end so they'll milk it for as long as they can and bring it back to life the instant they find something to use to help them do so.

In short, don't worry about Mac, he's a mature guy, more mature than most fans who are buying into this media manufactured ********.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

 

[captain stone]

Says it all right thar... Facts don't care about our feelings.

 

[Rob0729]

My judgement is based on my perception on how the coaching staff used Bailey more so than his play on the field. As you suggest they seemed reluctant to use him and IMO favored Mac to a great degree. Also there was reporting on the Curran podcast that Tom and Phil both felt after interaction with insiders that Mac had the inside track and Bailey did not. This was at the height of the MJ vs Zappe controversy last season.

Yet I take BB at his word. Both guys will play a lot in TC and Bailey will be given a full evaluation. I think it's an uphill struggle for him to end up being starter, but if he plays noticeably better than Mac and it "makes the team better", I could totally see Bailey get the job.

Another variable is BOB. I presume he has major input on who is the starter. It would not surprise me the issue of starting QB came up when BB was negotiating with BOB, with BOB asking for and receiving at least a verbal commitment that he has major input on who the starting QB is.

I think if it is up to O'Brien, Mac will get the job. Mac and O'Brien already have a relationship even if it isn't that close. Mac spent several weeks teaching O'Brien the Bama offense. So I would assume that O'Brien has a respect for Jones' football intelligence. I think a big reason why O'Brien was selected was because he was the best OC to put Mac in a position to succeed.

But according to Phil Perry that even if there is QB competition, none of his sources inside the building believe that Zappe has a realistic chance of winning the starting job.

 

[h0c2000]

Says it all right thar... Facts don't care about our feelings.

Bill's got a great gig. If his team sucks, it's the players fault. When they win, it's because he's the GOAT coach.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

2-3 against play-off teams year before with much easier schedule.
Last 5 games including Play-offs 1-4 with McDaniels.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

You think in 2001 Bill should have went back to Bledsoe when he came back from that hit from Lewis?
After all year before he went 5-11, with a new Coaching staff, and he had a 1st Overall pick in the Draft?
At time of hit Pats were 0-2. So 5-13 up to that point.
Seems to me he makes pretty smart decisions.
Last year Super Bowl winner year before went 5-12.
That Coach gets no negativity. just excuses.