PFT: Bill "has shopped" Mac

[Love The Drake]

Your right, that's what prompted us to go after clock Killin dillion who was phenomenal with for us! He wore down defenses.. 04 was spectacular we were loaded on defense

One of my favorite teams.

 

[Love The Drake]

One of my favorite teams.

Also allowed us to draft Wilfork getting Dillon because when Steven Jackson fell to us as well we had the need filled.

 

[Rob0729]

I do. SB 36 is a highlight of BB's head coaching career. SB 53 too. Holding Peyton Manning to 3 points in the 2004 divisional... great stuff. However, Brady was the main ingredient that led to all of the winning and ultimately propelled BB to legendary status.


Antowain Smith was in full decline by 2003. The running game was 30th in Y/A. The passing game was top 10. Brady had 5 game-winning drives that season and he finished 3rd in NFL MVP voting. But yes, the Patriots defenses peaked in 2003-2004. I still think 2004 was their overall best team.

I don't want to rehash all this over and over again for the 1,000,000th time, but I will say that you should go and look at the 2003 schedule and count all the shut outs the Pats defense had and how many games the offense failed to score over 20 points.

 

[Real fan 02]

Also allowed us to draft Wilfork getting Dillon because when Steven Jackson fell to us as well we had the need filled.

Yes!!! And was starting as a rookie right Vince? We had Givens, branch furia at TE,
Defense was just utter dominant..

 

[Rob0729]

Your right, that's what prompted us to go after clock Killin dillion who was phenomenal with for us! He wore down defenses.. 04 was spectacular we were loaded on defense

2003 was a better defense. 2004 was a better team.

Don't forget the Pats lost both their starting CBs early in the season in 2004 and the Patriots were a revolving door at that position including using Troy Brown (Troy had 3 INTs that season). You want to talk about the genius of Belichick? Look how he held together the CB position with chewing gum and shoestrings in 2004.

 

[Real fan 02]

2003 was a better defense. 2004 was a better team.

Don't forget the Pats lost both their starting CBs early in the season in 2004 and the Patriots were a revolving door at that position including using Troy Brown (Troy had 3 INTs that season). You want to talk about the genius of Belichick? Look how he held together the CB position with chewing gum and shoestrings in 2004.

Oh without a doubt the team was better!!.. yes it was genius by BB, it also helped we had crennel and Rodney at safety in the secondary hot rod was a coach on the field.. earthwind Moreland, Randall gay... didn't assaulting assante get his statr that season?

 

[Real fan 02]

I don't want to rehash all this over and over again for the 1,000,000th time, but I will say that you should go and look at the 2003 schedule and count all the shut outs the Pats defense had and how many games the offense failed to score over 20 points.

2014 Is another season that ... we were loaded on both sides of the ball we had so much depth on the defensive line... gronk was a beast..

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Preach brother preach: there were also times when T Thornton beat his man on the initial release and Mac didn't even look his way his awareness was just bad.

That happens in games with every QB ever. You guys see it with Mac because you're watching the game closely because it's your team (I think). Watch another game closely and you'll see QB's not seeing open receivers all the time. You guys try a little too hard to crap on Mac

 

[jlu52]

That happens in games with every QB ever. You guys see it with Mac because you're watching the game closely because it's your team (I think). Watch another game closely and you'll see QB's not seeing open receivers all the time. You guys try a little too hard to crap on Mac

Preach, brother, preach Thanks for providing some sanity and reason to this discussion. Now back to the everything the Patriots do sucks part of the discussion.

 

[Jlaff]

Just saw a mock where Levis drops to 16 I’m sorry if he is there at 14 you have to take him and trade Mac.

Too much natural ability sit him and let Zappe cook.

I'm in the pro-Zappe crowd but if you're dropping mid-round firsts on QBs every 3 years you're missing out on high impact players in other positions. Unless the Pats are 90%+ on Levis having all-world potential I'd rather roll with what we got.

 

[Jlaff]

No one is blaming Mac "100%" for the offensive struggles in 2022. However, he didn't play well and the offense looked better with Zappe. But the majority of the blame falls on Bill Belichick. He made the decision to employ Patricia and Judge and he made the decision to promote them to positions of high importance. It predictably blew up in his face. Belichick and the IBWTers still believe it's his "system" that fosters the winning. His system has never worked, not once, without Brady. They're always some bs excuse too. The owner sabotaged him in Cleveland. Had to clean up Carroll's mess, which suddenly worked like like magic come week 3 of 2001. Cassel hadn't started since high school. Resetting the cap in 2020. Rebuilding around a rookie QB in 2021. Scapegoating (his own decision) Patricia as the OC. I'm sure the wheels are already turning for excuses in 2023 so we can kick the 'make or break time' can to 2024.

I think Cam Newton on any other salary cap depleted team is a 1-3 win team. Imagine the Jets with Cam Newton.

Take away Bill's system last year and run with a 2nd year QB in a Patricia offense on MOST other teams and you can subtract 3-4 wins from the total.

 

[crawhammer]

I think Cam Newton on any other salary cap depleted team is a 1-3 win team. Imagine the Jets with Cam Newton.

The Jets won 2 games in 2020, they were 0-13 at one point. How could they have been any worse with Cam?

Also, Cam was the QB because BB put him in that spot. This is like the scapegoating of Patricia, who also was employed by BB. It's funny how BB gets off the hook when his guys **** up a season.

 

[RodThePat]

From reporting, virtually all the players didn't buy into the system right away. Supposedly Hoyer is gone because he knew the offense was going to be a disaster right away and was vocal about it and he has been with Belichick on and off for well over a decade. And that would explain why he got what looked to be a minor concusion in the fourth game of the season, put on IR, and never reactivated from it.

But if we are going to kill Mac for not buying in, we gotta be happy they shipped Meyers out of here for be insubordinate and publicly questiong the coaching staff. And we have to kill Bourne and several other players who spoke out. And how about Trent Brown who totally quit because the offense was so bad?

And who said that Mac or the fanbase thinks the Patriots' primary concern is to advance his career. At this point, Jones would be happy if Belichick showed a little concern about not destroying his career like he has been doing over the last year. Never once did Mac ever intimate that winning wasn't a priority for him or that he wanted the Patriots to focus on advancing his career. That is speculation your part. My guess is Mac wants to win as much or more than Belichick (since I question his desire to win after his moves last year) and his frustration stem from the fact that they couldn't win with that crap offense.

But you seem to be giving Belichick a free pass. Why aren't we questioning his motivations like you are with Jones? In an important year of young QB's development, he decided to put two guys with no offensive experience in place in the most important coaching jobs on offense because he was comfortable with them and not that they were the most qualified. And when these coaches couldn't grasp the offense, they created a new simpilier offense that suited them but didn't fit the strengths of the players they had and was not designed to put them in the best position to win. Belichick last year made coaching moves that were best for him and not the New England Patriots. Yet everyone still kills Mac Jones for his attitude.

Bill Belichick doesn't get a free pass, I just called his decision to have Judge and Patricia in charge of the offense utterly moronic. But Mac Jones wasn't put into this unwinnable situation in which it would be preposterous to ask of him to just suck it up and play better than he did. Yes, all of those other players reportedly questioned coaching. You think the QB has nothing to do with that? Just a coincidence that the guys closest to Mac were the ones openly talking in those terms?

When Mac does a single thing on a football field to rise above circumstances around him I'll start giving him passes and demanding they do right by him. Until he reaches such a point, he should put his head down and do whatever is asked of him by the coaching staff. Yes, even if it's awful and he thinks he knows better (which he very likely doesn't at this point in his career).

My main problem with Bill is him not realizing he absolutely needs to surround this kid with top tier talent if they intend on contending in this league. His roster building philosophy isn't fit for putting together a serious playoff threat without an elite quatterback. As a coach? I'll go with him over Mac flipping Jones every day of the week and thrice on Sundays.

 

[TheRainMaker]

So how's the shopping of Mac going?

 

[Ross12]

So how's the shopping on Mac going?

Josh's card got declined I think.

 

[Rob0729]

Bill Belichick doesn't get a free pass, I just called his decision to have Judge and Patricia in charge of the offense utterly moronic. But Mac Jones wasn't put into this unwinnable situation in which it would be preposterous to ask of him to just suck it up and play better than he did. Yes, all of those other players reportedly questioned coaching. You think the QB has nothing to do with that? Just a coincidence that the guys closest to Mac were the ones openly talking in those terms?

When Mac does a single thing on a football field to rise above circumstances around him I'll start giving him passes and demanding they do right by him. Until he reaches such a point, he should put his head down and do whatever is asked of him by the coaching staff. Yes, even if it's awful and he thinks he knows better (which he very likely doesn't at this point in his career).

My main problem with Bill is him not realizing he absolutely needs to surround this kid with top tier talent if they intend on contending in this league. His roster building philosophy isn't fit for putting together a serious playoff threat without an elite quatterback. As a coach? I'll go with him over Mac flipping Jones every day of the week and thrice on Sundays.

I have said this is how my blame pie goes in order:

1. Belichick
2. Patricia/Judge
3. O-line (especially the tackle position)
4-5 Toss up between Jones and the receivers although as QB, I would give Jones the edge for 4.

Jones isn't blameless, but he was arguably in a historically bad position where Belichick set him up to completely fail and when the situation was bad, he made it worse by fueling the fire of the QB controversy. I would say he had it worse than Trevor Lawrence last year. Sure the head coaching situation was also a historically bad situation, but at least Lawrence had a real OC who ran a somewhat functioning offense even if it was horrible.

But again, Belichick did everything to make sure Jones failed last year. He gave him an OC who didn't know how to run an offense. He gave him a QB's coach who has personality issues and from most accounts pretends he is an expert in everything but really is clueless about what he is talking about. He also made the OC who didn't know anything about running an offense in charge of the o-line which is one of the most demanding coaching jobs itself. He then dumbed down the offense to gear the offense to the strengths and weaknesses of its inexperienced coaches which took away Jones' greatest strengths. And by their own admission, they refused to give Jones layup plays on first down to create second and short situation until after it worked with Zappe which made Zappe look like the superior QB because he was throwing high percentage throws while giving Jones low percentage 50-50 balls. And after that, he added fuel to the fire of the QB controversy by refusing to name Jones the starter beyond individual games. Every move by Belichick was designed (intentionally or unintentionally) to set Jones up for failure.

I didn't like some of Jones' attitude on the field, but all of his attitude itself was greatly justified. A second year QB should be groomed to succeed. Jones was set up to fail.

And again, if Belichick was any other coach, he would have been fired after last season. In fact, I believe he should have been fired. Everyone says you can't fire Belichick because he gives you two or three wins. Well last year, Belichick single handily cost the Patriots the playoffs. If the Pats had a competent coaching staff, they could have easily won 1-3 more games last year.

 

[Jlaff]

The Jets won 2 games in 2020, they were 0-13 at one point. How could they have been any worse with Cam?

Also, Cam was the QB because BB put him in that spot. This is like the scapegoating of Patricia, who also was employed by BB. It's funny how BB gets off the hook when his guys **** up a season.

I guess we need to more narrowly define the BB "system". Is it the day to day, week to week coaching operation? Is it his GM work? His coaching hires? All of it together?

I'm still impressed with what he did as a coach with a Cam led team. And not overly concerned with his coaching last year that resulted in a reasonably competitive team given the parts involved.

Also, Patricia is everyone's scapegoat, why shouldn't he be BB's too?

 

[Pats1971]

Your right, that's what prompted us to go after clock Killin dillion who was phenomenal with for us! He wore down defenses.. 04 was spectacular we were loaded on defense

Sort of, our secondary was major injured, we even had to run Brown out there at corner. Bad teams were passing on us that year.

 

[Real fan 02]

Sort of, our secondary was major injured, we even had to run Brown out there at corner. Bad teams were passing on us that year.

Yes another poster had mentioned that as well.. we had the likes or earthwind Moreland, wasn't assante there as well? Randall gay.. yeah thankfully we had a dominant front 7.. we still ended up 14-2 amazing..

 

[Love The Drake]

Josh's card got declined I think.

He offered Kraft a few ladies of the night for Mac but Bill turned it down.