Pats Should Keep Garoppolo Through 2017

[FreeTedWilliams]

If you look around the league not many teams will be looking for a QB this off-season. Of course it could change, but as of today, the only teams I see really in the QB market would be the Jets, Browns (as usual), and then maybe the Jags or KC. So the Jimmy market might not be that hot (for a trade).

 

[Deus Irae]

If you look around the league not many teams will be looking for a QB this off-season. Of course it could change, but as of today, the only teams I see really in the QB market would be the Jets, Browns (as usual), and then maybe the Jags or KC. So the Jimmy market might not be that hot (for a trade).

Dolphins
Jets
Browns
Redskins
Vikings (but won't have the draft pick ammo)
Bears
49ers
Cardinals
Chargers

 

[Rob0729]

Unless the coaching staff thinks Garoppolo is elite, you trade him this offseason while his value is at its highest.

 

[Ring 6]

Wait so what's the point? Sucks for them that they had to play the best team in the NFCCG, but that's how it worked out. Montana and the Niners had to get through the mid-80's Bears, Giants, and Redskins to get to their 3 Super Bowls during the same era of notoriously weak AFC teams ('84-'96, 13 straight NFC winners). Why is that an excuse for Young winning less rather than bonus points in the column of Montana's Niner run?

Just an aside: The Montana Niners first SB was won going through an extremely weak NFC.
The other 2 came after the Bears and Giants run, and in between the Redskins.
They were 10-6 in 1988 and were a 2 seed.
In 1989 they were 14-2 and beat the Jim Everett Rams in the NFCCG.
By 1990 the Giants had retooled and beat the 14-2 Niners in the playoffs.

It would be more accurate to say the Niners struggled to get past the good teams of that era, and slipped through when the big boys were down.

 

[patfanken]

lol, maybe it isn't as absurd as it seems. Not to compare apples to oranges, but Brady wasn't exactly a world-beater when he first played in 01. But he still showed enough potential to make Belichick and Kraft part ways for someone widely considered to be the face of the franchise.

Not saying Jimmy is an up-and-coming GOAT, but it wouldn't be the first time this franchise decided to trade or part-ways with an established, respected quarterback.

The fact is that BB knew in preseason that Brady was the better FOR HIS OFFENSE, than Drew. He was essentially allowing Drew to lose his job tactfully, which he was doing before Moe Lewis made it official.

Brady didn't come into this league as the GOAT. He made himself INTO the GOAT over a long period of time. But even early on BB knew that FOR HIS OFFENSE he needed a QB who could throw short accurate passes and make quick decisions. Unfortunately, at that point of his career,that was NOT Drew Bledsoe. It was your typical "wrong QB for the system" situation. Their skill sets were different.

Drew might have been the "face of the franchise" to the public in 2001, but he definitely wasn't to the coaching staff. They just needed a way to make the transition tactfully, and Moe Lewis gave it to them, but it was going to happen with or without it happening. That ship had sailed in preseason, we just didn't know it. That is one of the great myths of the NFL. That without the Moe Lewis hit, the world would have never known about Tom Brady. It's a nice story, but the fact is the staff knew that Brady was going to supplant Bledsoe sometime in 2001, they just didn't know when.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Dolphins
Jets
Browns
Redskins
Vikings (but won't have the draft pick ammo)
Bears
49ers
Cardinals
Chargers

Tannehill's $20 million cap hit for next year, so they can't afford to get rid of him.
You are right about the Bears they can save $14 million and only have $2 million in dead money by releasing Cutler.
I doubt Rivers is going anywhere.
Palmer has a $24 million cap number next year, cutting him would leave 14 million in dead money.
Vikings will have both Bridgewater (cheap) and Bradford $17 mil (4 Mil guaranteed) under contract next year.
I forgot about the Redskins, Cousins is playing on the franchise tag, Always a fine franchise to fleece for draft picks.

 

[patfanken]

I don't get the "10 year" argument. We are seeing an era in the NFL where 4 years is a GENERATION in NFL years. Roster turnover is amazingly quick, even under well cap managed teams. That is a big reason why Dallas, SF, Giants, etc would endure over long periods, because roster stability was possible then. It isn't now.

One of big reason for the Pats to be able to buck this trend, is BB has successfully substituted COACHING stability for roster stability. So even though many of the AC's have moved on, the language, ethos, style, and leadership has been incredibly stable, Certainly it is not the same as roster stability in its impact, but it does mitigate some of the issues most teams have.

So in an era when you are LIKELY to get premium QB play from Brady for the next 3-4 years, why keep a great prospect like JG, and risk your SB window when you know for THIS short generation, you are going to have a strong and deep team,

This was the mind set that led to BB picking a QB in the 3rd round. He already knew that the timing for JG being the "next" Pats QB was all wrong. He knew that Brady would still be better than JG for his team when Jimmy's contract will run out. Thus enter JB and lets see what happens in 4 years. A time when it will be far more likely that Tom will be really on the downside.

That is why it is so important that you evaluate JB based on what he will be in 2-3 years rather than on what you saw on Sunday.

 

[Deus Irae]

Tannehill's $20 million cap hit for next year, so they can't afford to get rid of him.
You are right about the Bears they can save $14 million and only have $2 million in dead money by releasing Cutler.
I doubt Rivers is going anywhere.
Palmer has a $24 million cap number next year, cutting him would leave 14 million in dead money.
Vikings will have both Bridgewater (cheap) and Bradford $17 mil (4 Mil guaranteed) under contract next year.
I forgot about the Redskins, Cousins is playing on the franchise tag, Always a fine franchise to fleece for draft picks.

Rivers and Palmer are old guys and, like the Patriots, the Chargers and Cardinals are likely looking at both today and tomorrow, with regards to the QB position. Trading for JAG (or any young QB) next year would put the Chargers/Cardinals in a position to use 2017 as their transition year, with JAG (or any young QB) installed as the full time starter by 2018. Tannehill's been a stiff, so swapping him for a decent QB out would be a net bonus for the Dolphins, even if that means Tannehill's riding the pine for a year.

Palmer's dead money, if he's out after 2017 = $6.6m
Rivers' dead money, if he's out after 2017 = $12m
Tannehill's dead money, if he's out after 2017 = $4.6m

Reports on Bridgewater vary, ranging from career threatening to just out for the season. Reports on Sam Bradford are that he's not very good, and he is very brittle.

 

[AzPatsFan]

You people predicting Brady being done in 2 years...good luck with that. I bet you've been predicting Brandon Bolden getting cut 4 years in a row now. I dunno why some of you are so excited to bet against Tom.

I'm not 100% convinced Brady will retire before Brissett's contract is up, let alone Jimmy.

Sorry everyone, I think we're stuck with Brady for a while.

Father Time waits for no man. Avocado Ice cream is NOT the Fountain of Youth. Brady can be on a team until his mi forties perhaps. That does not mean he will be a starter. On the other hand, he could go Over the Hill in the next 4 games. That is reality.

Unless Brady gets hurt or falls into decline over the next two seasons, I'd say JG is a goner. If he hadn't been hurt we might have a better judgement of him out of four full games and his trade value would probably be higher.

If JG stays he can't expect big money or immideate playing time unless, as I said, something happens to Brady.

Neither assumption is warented. Noting Bradys personality, he will not go willingly into that long night. Even when its past certain to all his time has come... and Gone. I fear it will not be an easy transition.

Rivers and Palmer are old guys and, like the Patriots, the Chargers and Cardinals are likely looking at both today and tomorrow, with regards to the QB position. Trading for JAG (or any young QB) next year would put the Chargers/Cardinals in a position to use 2017 as their transition year, with JAG (or any young QB) installed as the full time starter by 2018. Tannehill's been a stiff, so swapping him for a decent QB out would be a net bonus for the Dolphins, even if that means Tannehill's riding the pine for a year.

Palmer's dead money, if he's out after 2017 = $6.6m
Rivers' dead money, if he's out after 2017 = $12m
Tannehill's dead money, if he's out after 2017 = $4.6m

Reports on Bridgewater vary, ranging from career threatening to just out for the season. Reports on Sam Bradford are that he's not very good, and he is very brittle.

All these stupid Drafniks never add in the value of having an adequate backup QB on a Superbowl contender. Is such a commodity worth a Second or Third or even a First if he can provide the means to another Lombardi? Even if never used.

Belichick is a much more logical fellow though. He has demonstrated that would much, much, rather have and afford three or four merely good players, than afford only one Superstar and three poor scrubs. Good depth wins, and BB has traded Firsts to help insure it, many times.

So No 100 million dollar Suhs or Megatrons need apply.

 

[Deus Irae]

All these stupid Drafniks never add in the value of having an adequate backup QB on a Superbowl contender. Is such a commodity worth a Second or Third or even a First if he can provide the means to another Lombardi? Even if never used.

Belichick is a much more logical fellow though. He has demonstrated that would much, much, rather have and afford three or four merely good players, than afford only one Superstar and three poor scrubs. Good depth wins, and BB has traded Firsts to help insure it, many times.

I have no idea what you're trying to say with this post, in the context of what you quoted from me.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I have no idea what you're trying to say with this post, in the context of what you quoted from me.

I was talking about the cost/value of a backup QB. The dead money figures for a QB are bearable for many teams. As is their implicit value even as a insurance policy, if not starting.

Miquel showed what would be the cost, if no contract changes made. I have outlined elsewhere, what could be done though on a pattern that the Pats have already utilized on the current Brady contract. Heavy signing bonus, provides the Player for big instant money; that is amortized over the life of the contract, so that the 2018 CAP hit for both QBs is acceptable, to have the value discussed above.

 

[Deus Irae]

I was talking about the cost/value of a backup QB. The dead money figures for a QB are bearable for many teams. As is their implicit value even as a insurance policy, if not starting.

Miquel showed what would be the cost, if no contract changes made. I have outlined elsewhere, what could be done though on a pattern that the Pats have already utilized on the current Brady contract. Heavy signing bonus, provides the Player for big instant money; that is amortized over the life of the contract, so that the 2018 CAP hit for both QBs is acceptable, to have the value discussed above.

Dead money figures are clearly bearable to the Patriots, too. Again, I'm not sure what you're trying to say, beyond seemingly taking digs at other teams for no particular reason.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Noting Bradys personality, he will not go willingly into that long night. Even when its past certain to all his time has come... and Gone. I fear it will not be an easy transition.

Brady's father is already on record as believing precisely that.

 

[Gronk]

Just an aside: The Montana Niners first SB was won going through an extremely weak NFC.
The other 2 came after the Bears and Giants run, and in between the Redskins.
They were 10-6 in 1988 and were a 2 seed.
In 1989 they were 14-2 and beat the Jim Everett Rams in the NFCCG.
By 1990 the Giants had retooled and beat the 14-2 Niners in the playoffs.

It would be more accurate to say the Niners struggled to get past the good teams of that era, and slipped through when the big boys were down.

Hmmm...not buying that 80's Niners weren't one of the "big boys"
They beat the Giants, Redskins, and Bears in the playoffs in various years. And lost to them other times too, yes.
They all had their years where they were the best in the NFC, which in those days meant in the NFL.

The 49ers had more of them than the others (or the same as Washington if we exclude '81 for SF, but include '82 and '91 for WAS). Whatever way you count how what follows is the conclusion that they were the weakest of the 4, or somehow don't belong, doesn't really add up.

 

[Ring 6]

Hmmm...not buying that 80's Niners weren't one of the "big boys"
They beat the Giants, Redskins, and Bears in the playoffs in various years. And lost to them other times too, yes.
They all had their years where they were the best in the NFC, which in those days meant in the NFL.

The 49ers had more of them than the others (or the same as Washington if we exclude '81 for SF, but include '82 and '91 for WAS). Whatever way you count how what follows is the conclusion that they were the weakest of the 4, or somehow don't belong, doesn't really add up.

That's not what I said.

 

[heavyde050]

Father Time waits for no man. Avocado Ice cream is NOT the Fountain of Youth. Brady can be on a team until his mi forties perhaps. That does not mean he will be a starter. On the other hand, he could go Over the Hill in the next 4 games. That is reality.


Neither assumption is warented. Noting Bradys personality, he will not go willingly into that long night. Even when its past certain to all his time has come... and Gone. I fear it will not be an easy transition.


All these stupid Drafniks never add in the value of having an adequate backup QB on a Superbowl contender. Is such a commodity worth a Second or Third or even a First if he can provide the means to another Lombardi? Even if never used.

Belichick is a much more logical fellow though. He has demonstrated that would much, much, rather have and afford three or four merely good players, than afford only one Superstar and three poor scrubs. Good depth wins, and BB has traded Firsts to help insure it, many times.

So No 100 million dollar Suhs or Megatrons need apply.

I think the key word in the post above is adequate. Jimmy G has proven himself to be a starting caliber QB for an NFL team.
The Pats obviously keep him the rest of this year, but if Brady plays like Brady and Jacoby progresses well, couldn't he be the "adequate" backup heading into year 2.
I think if BB can get proper value for JG, he is gone before his contract is up, as long as Brady plays to the 2013-2015 level.
I don't think Brady will be throwing for 50 TDS as a 42 year old, but I do think he can be a Super Bowl winning QB for both this year and next. I just don't see BB allocating the necessary resources to keep JG as a backup unless Brady starts to play like Manning did last year.
If Brady is Brady, then having Jimmy G as a backup far exceeds adequate.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I think the key word in the post above is adequate. Jimmy G has proven himself to be a starting caliber QB for an NFL team.
The Pats obviously keep him the rest of this year, but if Brady plays like Brady and Jacoby progresses well, couldn't he be the "adequate" backup heading into year 2.
I think if BB can get proper value for JG, he is gone before his contract is up, as long as Brady plays to the 2013-2015 level.
I don't think Brady will be throwing for 50 TDS as a 42 year old, but I do think he can be a Super Bowl winning QB for both this year and next. I just don't see BB allocating the necessary resources to keep JG as a backup unless Brady starts to play like Manning did last year.
If Brady is Brady, then having Jimmy G as a backup far exceeds adequate.

We are Not talking about today or 2017. JG and JB are cheap till then.

Its about 2018 and beyond, if Brady has not gone Over the Hill by then. In other words you want a backup good enough to LOSE with, only. FitzPicksix will be available cheap after this season. Would you like that? How about Butt Fumble? He is an experienced backup too. Sounds just like the guys you want...

 

[Bradyking12]

Sorry but Jacoby is garbage if hes our next QB we are done, Jimmy G is the answer possibly.

 

[aluminum seats]

Dolphins
Jets
Browns
Redskins
Vikings (but won't have the draft pick ammo)
Bears
49ers
Cardinals
Chargers

I wonder if there would be hesitancy to trade JG in the division, I think there might be. Wasn't for Bledsoe, which didn't speak too well of Drew, I guess.

 

[Deus Irae]

I wonder if there would be hesitancy to trade JG in the division, I think there might be. Wasn't for Bledsoe, which didn't speak too well of Drew, I guess.

If we found out one way or the other, it would give us at least a theoretical bit of insight into how they viewed JAG.