Patriots officially a top 10 Defense!

[TheBostonStraggler]

of course...the Pats are horrible....if only we had a defense like the great Rex Ryan's!!!!

I heard Colin Cowherd say it so it must be TRUE....the Pats are below average except they have Brady..,..and just like JetFan1 tried to warn us all...all FIFTY THREE Jets on the roster are far superior to any players the Patriots have and Brady is in his twilight...so I guess it's finally time to jump ship and become a Jets fan....before we all miss the boat!!!

But...can't migrate over to the Gangrene with this login....I'll have to dream up a super duperest Jet handle...like Postman Pete or Jolly Green Giant Fan(two teams for the price of one!!!)....jump on board...before you miss the flight!!!

It ends up The Joker actually is a midnight toker.

Your sarcasm hit the nail on the head. I suspect because the secondary is an unprecedented no name group, the bar will be high to gain any respect (justifiably so). Highly questionable defenses on other teams will get far less negative attention. That isn't to say the D has earned respect yet, however, the unit has played decent enough to not have so much focus and so much verbosity on how bad they are. Milestones for this defense to reach:

1) Improve on the 2010 defense. Done (which isn't saying much)
2) Show improvement as the season goes on. Done
3) Demonstrate ability to make stops when we absolutely need them. ????
4) Make opposition coaching staffs think they don't have passing carte blanche against the D (especially when they are game planning). ????

 

[DarrylS]

23 Pages and all it proves is that we cannot agree on much, the "yeah but" crowd is as vocal as ever...

The eyeball test tells me that there has been significant improvement, and while there is and always be a lot of ball movement between the 20's, we do a pretty good job in the red zone..

The points allowed stat is very encouraging..

 

[Dutchmaster617]

The 2010 D was better in everything but sacks, also of course they would/will improve, last I checked we don't play any good teams in the entire second half of the season.

 

[patsfan13]

BB talked a lot about Defense and stats when he was on weei this week. He said the goal of the D was to prevent the other team from scoring so points allowed is the most important. He would also be happy if the D went 3 and out every time. His comments and POV are very telling, sound like he is happier with the D this year than the D from last year.

Bill Belichick on the win over the Chiefs and getting ready for the Eagles

 

[RobertWeathers]

The 2010 D was better in everything but sacks, also of course they would/will improve, last I checked we don't play any good teams in the entire second half of the season.

Not really. 2011 D is better in...
-3rd down defense 47% vs 43%
-Red Zone D 56% vs 50%

 

[RIpats88]

Not really. 2011 D is better in...
-3rd down defense 47% vs 43%
-Red Zone D 56% vs 50%

we also have a much better pass rush than last year. actually collapsing the pocket and getting to the QB. this is something important to have in the playoffs. one of the reasons the jets beat us was that sanchez had ALL day to throw. and if you give even a horrid QB like him that much time, the secondary is going to fall apart at some point. a solid pass rush masks alot of deficiencies from the secondary..everything builds from there.

the thing is, this is NOT a lockdown defense, but those who disparage it constantly as being the worst are innacurate as well. this defense even just by an eye test has improved alot.

over 10games, we are #10 in points allowed...and that isnt an abberation. this team has been very good at limiting other teams scoring/getting takeaways

 

[RobertWeathers]

we also have a much better pass rush than last year. actually collapsing the pocket and getting to the QB. this is something important to have in the playoffs. one of the reasons the jets beat us was that sanchez had ALL day to throw. and if you give even a horrid QB like him that much time, the secondary is going to fall apart at some point. a solid pass rush masks alot of deficiencies from the secondary..everything builds from there.

the thing is, this is NOT a lockdown defense, but those who disparage it constantly as being the worst are innacurate as well. this defense even just by an eye test has improved alot.

over 10games, we are #10 in points allowed...and that isnt an abberation. this team has been very good at limiting other teams scoring/getting takeaways

I'm of the opinion that a lockdown defense doesn't exist anymore. Any defense that is allowing under 20 a game, forcing turnovers and getting to the QB is a good defense.

Not to cherry-pick but since the OAK game the D is allowing 17.5 ppg and 355yds a game. The YPG is slightly above the league ave.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Not really. 2011 D is better in...
-3rd down defense 47% vs 43%
-Red Zone D 56% vs 50%

I still see no reason to prefer this defense, we faced better QBs last year and have already blown 2 games this year in the 4th. The personnel alone is weaker imo.

With Rivers looking out of the playoffs, and Peyton injured I like our chances better in the playoffs though.

 

[robbomango]

Here's a look at all the SB champs including their offensive and defensive ranking according to points/yards.

I added up all 45 rankings in each column and divided it by 45 to get a look at the average ranking, the results are at the bottom.

34 defenses with the best record won championships and 29 offenses did it as well.

The mantra "defense wins Championships" is a bit of an over exaggerated myth looking at the numbers. Appropriate would be "balanced teams win Championships" with a top 10 O and D that is. Any way, just some stats to play with.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The defense is bad. The coaching is excellent. It's all a matter of matchups and what the coaches can cover up for.

Exactly. The question of how they match up with the elite teams in the playoffs is what's truly important.

That beings said, while I don't think BB's offseason defensive plan has gone as intended, BB still has been developing "his" type of guys, giving a bunch of no names and UDFAs a shot while cutting some better known players.

I have a feeling a few of these no names are going to turn out to be pretty well known on Patsfans in the coming years and that looking back in a few years, noting those names we won't think of this D as quite so bad.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I still see no reason to prefer this defense, we faced better QBs last year and have already blown 2 games this year in the 4th. The personnel alone is weaker imo.

With Rivers looking out of the playoffs, and Peyton injured I like our chances better in the playoffs though.

The offense was much more machine like last year and was the ultimate safety net for the defense. Admittedly I was disparaging the 2010 D by memory only, however, opposing offenses were routinely in 1 dimensional mode against the 2010 D. The 2011 D is having to keep the team in the game on multiple occasions due to the offense not putting up Patriot like points (or doing it much later in the game). My memory of the 2010 D was that teams would rack up pass yards, ran fairly well against them and they placed little pressure on the QB. In 2011 the D is getting some pressure and holding the run fairly well. Again, that is my recollection and not stats based.
So far I'd take this D though not in a "hell yeah! I'd take this defense" kind of way.

 

[mgteich]

Oh sure, our present team will have no problem with PITT, BALT, and GB.

.

With Rivers looking out of the playoffs, and Peyton injured I like our chances better in the playoffs though.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Here's a look at all the SB champs including their offensive and defensive ranking according to points/yards.

I added up all 45 rankings in each column and divided it by 45 to get a look at the average ranking, the results are at the bottom.

34 defenses with the best record won championships and 29 offenses did it as well.

The mantra "defense wins Championships" is a bit of an over exaggerated myth looking at the numbers. Appropriate would be "balanced teams win Championships" with a top 10 O and D that is. Any way, just some stats to play with.

Another trend I noticed in that chart is in the majority of cases the SB winning team ranks better in the points catergory than the yards catergory.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Oh sure, our present team will have no problem with PITT, BALT, and GB.

But they will have problems with NE, no?

Two way street.

 

[jmt57]

Here's a look at all the SB champs including their offensive and defensive ranking according to points/yards.

I added up all 45 rankings in each column and divided it by 45 to get a look at the average ranking, the results are at the bottom.

34 defenses with the best record won championships and 29 offenses did it as well.

The mantra "defense wins Championships" is a bit of an over exaggerated myth looking at the numbers. Appropriate would be "balanced teams win Championships" with a top 10 O and D that is.

Any way, just some stats to play with.

Nice chart, thanks for putting that together.

I'd also like to point out this app by StubStub that gives a cool visual of points allowed to yards allowed, week by week and through the years; I think a lot of people may have missed this from a few days ago:

Hey all. My last NFL hobby project got a nice reception here: PATS PICKER

So, I thought y'all might enjoy my latest. It's a bit more complex; an attempt to visualize each team's path and to see the importance and trending of point differential vs. yard differential. Here it is, let me know what you think:

NFL SEASON PATH

Point Differential vs Yards Differential

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

l.

The mantra "defense wins Championships" is a bit of an over exaggerated myth looking at the numbers. Appropriate would be "balanced teams win Championships" with a top 10 O and D that is. Any way, just some stats to play with.

Thanks-- it also shows a higher correlation of championships with allowing few points & scoring points instead of with allowing few yards & gaining a lot of yards.

In other words, yardage-based rankings of offenses and defenses is less associated with success than is points-based rankings of offenses and defenses, a point many of us have argued and many others have blasted

 

[mgteich]

I agree. I was responding to a poster who thought we would have easy sailing now that Manning and Rivers are out of the playoffs.

But they will have problems with NE, no?

Two way street.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I agree. I was responding to a poster who thought we would have easy sailing now that Manning and Rivers are out of the playoffs.

O, I agree. Balt/Pitt scare me and I think the Raiders are being overlooked.

 

[RobertWeathers]

O, I agree. Balt/Pitt scare me and I think the Raiders are being overlooked.

The Raiders are an interesting team for sure. They can run the ball. They now have a competent QB and can get after the QB.

The only issue is that they have a tough schedule the rest of the way. I don't see them finishing better than 9-7 which actually just might be enough to win the division.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

The offense was much more machine like last year and was the ultimate safety net for the defense. Admittedly I was disparaging the 2010 D by memory only, however, opposing offenses were routinely in 1 dimensional mode against the 2010 D. The 2011 D is having to keep the team in the game on multiple occasions due to the offense not putting up Patriot like points (or doing it much later in the game). My memory of the 2010 D was that teams would rack up pass yards, ran fairly well against them and they placed little pressure on the QB. In 2011 the D is getting some pressure and holding the run fairly well. Again, that is my recollection and not stats based.
So far I'd take this D though not in a "hell yeah! I'd take this defense" kind of way.

I agree the offense was much more effective last season, I just have a thing for the safeties we cut, especially Sanders. I still don't trust the guys we have, even Chung due to him being the top guy this season.

Although on the pressure, it is better this year and we did face some poor offenses at times last season, still I am not ready to say they are getting pressure, the last two games saw like 8-10 sacks against horrible blocking and that is still not enough to put us bring our total to a solid ranking. For the first 8 or so games we couldn't touch the QB.