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Patriots Off-season review (Pre-Draft Edition) - DEFENSE


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DaBruinz

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Patriots Defense Off-season Review.

NT – Vince Wilfork, Michael Wright, Dan Klecko, Santonio Thomas– I listed Klecko here because I couldn’t figure out where else to put him. I think the Pats could still try and move him inside to LB, but there may not be a place on the team for him anymore.
Vince had a bad start to the year, but corrected his technique by lining up farther off the line. Doing so forced him to hold the gaps and stop trying to collapse the pocket and taking himself out of position on runs. Michael Wright was average in spot duty. The Pats could bring in a veteran like Grady Jackson or they could let Wright continue to develop. Santonio Thomas could return for another stint on the Practice squad. I’m not sure the Pats will look for a NT in the draft, but Babatunde Oshinowo and Montavius Stanley have played the NT position in the 3-4 in college. Other potential prospects here are Orien Harris and John McCargo.

DE – Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Jarvis Green, Marquise Hill - With these four, I really don’t see the Pats bringing in another 3-4 DE/4-3 DT, unless they feel it’s a great value late in the draft. Hill was a project when drafted and didn’t get a lot of playing time last year because of the injuries to the LBs and secondary, forcing the Pats to keep more of those players on the game roster while relying on a shorter rotation for the DEs. Barry Cofield or Jason Hatcher could be potential players.

OLB – Rosie Colvin, Tully Banta-Cain – Vrabel and Bruschi can play here as well. However, TBC hasn’t yet shown he can play the position with any regularity. That an extension for McGinest wasn’t reached and he was cut took many of us by surprise and it leaves a big gap to fill. I see a DE/OLB type player being drafted by the Pats. Someone like Manny Lawson, Tamba Hali, Mathias Kiwanuka, or Stanley McGlover. Mark Anderson early in the 3rd round could be better value as well. Other later round picks could include Mike Kudla, Ryan LaCasse, Brandon Guillory and Chris Gocong.

ILB - Ted Bruschi, Larry Izzo, Mike Vrabel, Eric Alexander, Ryan Claridge, Monty Beisel, Don Davis
The unexpected retirement of Ted Johnson, Bruschi’s stroke, Vrabel’s pre-season injury and Claridge’s TC injury left the Pats scrambling to find someone to man the ILB position. Izzo wasn’t the best special teamer by far and the Special Teams coverage units were average this year. I though Izzo was gone last year, but he got to stick around. Speculation amongst us fans was that Chad Brown wouldn’t be back and we were correct. That could be the case if the Pats take another ILB during this very deep LB draft. Someone like Kai Parham or Spencer Havener, or Tim Dobbins. Bobby Carpenter and Chad Greenway have also been touted as 1st round possibilities for the Pats.

CB - Asante Samuel, Randall Gay, Ellis Hobbs, Eric Warfield, Chad Scott, Hank Poteat, Antwain Spann - Everyone was correct about Ty Poole being cut. I was wrong about Starks and he was cut as well. Chad Scott and Hank Poteat were re-signed by the Pats. Randall Gay was also re-signed. The starting CB jobs, in my opinion, are both up for grabs with Hobbs, Gay, Samuel and Warfield battling it out. I hear people clamoring for a “play-maker” here, but this draft is not that deep at CB. Some people are clamoring for Antonio Cromartie because of his measurables. However, he has very little starting experience and is a 2-3 year project. I used to think that the following were guys who could interest the Pats include: Ashton Youboty, Anwar Phillips, Jonathan Joseph, Will Blackmon, and Marcus Maxey. However, I have moved away from all but Marcus Maxey and added Richard Marshall to my list. However, Will Blackmon could still interest the Patriots in the 4th round, but I don’t believe he is of value before that.

Safety - Rodney Harrison, Eugene Wilson, Guss Scott, James Sanders, Artrell Hawkins, Mel Mitchell, Tebucky Jones, Ray Ventrone- Rodney is a big question mark because of his injury. Reports are bery good and it looks like he will be ready for the start of the season, if not training camp. Wilson looked lost at times and tried to do too much. His poor play led to many people blaming Starks for some of the long plays the Pats gave up, though Wilson was the one truly out of position. BB seems to be very high on Guss Scott while Rodney was singing the praises of James Sanders. Artrell Hawkins also held his own as the veteran in the secondary once he got here and was re-signed. Mel Mitchell was signed to replace Michael Stone (arguably the Pats best special teams tackler last year). Tebuckey Jones was also signed this off-season. I think he was also signed to push for a spot on special teams. I originally thought that since the Patriots have 4 picks in the 1st 3 rounds and they could, potentially, take either a corner or a safety to help the team out. Many people are already clamoring for guys like Darnell Bing, Michael Huff, Bernard Pollard and Greg Blue. My question is which one of them has experience calling out defensive changes in the secondary and was a proven leader on their team. However, With the re-signing of Hawkins and the additions of Mitchell and Jones, I don’t see the Pats drafting a DB (CB or S) unless they feel that the player will come in and start right away. Anthony Smith could be one who could come in and start on special teams right away and push for a spot as a back-up safety over Scott or Sanders.
 
Last edited:
Just two additions...ILB vet Don Davis who was the first FA that they re-signed.. and S--Ray Ventrone who is NFLE.
 
Pats726 said:
Just two additions...ILB vet Don Davis who was the first FA that they re-signed.. and S--Ray Ventrone who is NFLE.

Thanks for the catches. Edited them in.
 
The only question on defense for me (other than backups like NT) is how to fill the last LB spot. As I have said numerous times I would draft a TJ type for run downs with Vrabel at LOLB and on passing downs move Vrabel inside and put a rusher at ROLB, either TBC or a draft choice. This would enable us to fill that last spot fairly cheaply.

Among higher pick possibilities, Carpenter still interests me. Lawson does as the LOLB rusher who could grow into full time duty. As size aside I still like DeMaco Ryans at ILB next to Bruschi.
 
Barry Coefield, DT Northwestern is a hard worker and has been said to have the versatility to play DT in a 4-3, and both NT and DE in a 3-4. Versatility and Smarts are golden words in a Patriot draft evaluation.

Of all the other DL men I could see BB/SP taking a chance on Rodrique Wright; the upside is great, the downside is that he will only be a backup.

I could also see the Patriots re-signing Chad Brown for far fewer dollars and letting him play OLB. That was the position they signed him for last season; with the extended recovery for Bruschi and the unexpected loss of TJ, he was tossed into the breach as an ILB cnadidate. He wasn't suited to that task. Obvously, this would only happen if the Pats did not get the rookie help at OLB that they anticipate.
 
DaBruinz said:
Patriots Defense Off-season Review.

NT – Vince Wilfork, Michael Wright, Dan Klecko, Santonio Thomas– I listed Klecko here because I couldn’t figure out where else to put him. I think the Pats could still try and move him inside to LB, but there may not be a place on the team for him anymore.
Vince had a bad start to the year, but corrected his technique by lining up farther off the line. Doing so forced him to hold the gaps and stop trying to collapse the pocket and taking himself out of position on runs. Michael Wright was average in spot duty. The Pats could bring in a veteran like Grady Jackson or they could let Wright continue to develop. Santonio Thomas could return for another stint on the Practice squad. I’m not sure the Pats will look for a NT in the draft, but Babatunde Oshinowo and Montavius Stanley have played the NT position in the 3-4 in college. Other potential prospects here are Orien Harris and John McCargo.

DE – Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Jarvis Green, Marquise Hill - With these four, I really don’t see the Pats bringing in another 3-4 DE/4-3 DT, unless they feel it’s a great value late in the draft. Hill was a project when drafted and didn’t get a lot of playing time last year because of the injuries to the LBs and secondary, forcing the Pats to keep more of those players on the game roster while relying on a shorter rotation for the DEs. Barry Cofield or Jason Hatcher could be potential players.

OLB – Rosie Colvin, Tully Banta-Cain – Vrabel and Bruschi can play here as well. However, TBC hasn’t yet shown he can play the position with any regularity. That an extension for McGinest wasn’t reached and he was cut took many of us by surprise and it leaves a big gap to fill. I see a DE/OLB type player being drafted by the Pats. Someone like Manny Lawson, Tamba Hali, Mathias Kiwanuka, or Stanley McGlover. Mark Anderson early in the 3rd round could be better value as well. Other later round picks could include Mike Kudla, Ryan LaCasse, Brandon Guillory and Chris Gocong.

ILB - Ted Bruschi, Larry Izzo, Mike Vrabel, Eric Alexander, Ryan Claridge, Monty Beisel, Don Davis–
The unexpected retirement of Ted Johnson, Bruschi’s stroke, Vrabel’s pre-season injury and Claridge’s TC injury left the Pats scrambling to find someone to man the ILB position. Izzo wasn’t the best special teamer by far and the Special Teams coverage units were average this year. I though Izzo was gone last year, but he got to stick around. Speculation amongst us fans was that Chad Brown wouldn’t be back and we were correct. That could be the case if the Pats take another ILB during this very deep LB draft. Someone like Kai Parham or Spencer Havener, or Tim Dobbins. Bobby Carpenter and Chad Greenway have also been touted as 1st round possibilities for the Pats.

CB - Asante Samuel, Randall Gay, Ellis Hobbs, Eric Warfield, Chad Scott, Hank Poteat, Antwain Spann - Everyone was correct about Ty Poole being cut. I was wrong about Starks and he was cut as well. Chad Scott and Hank Poteat were re-signed by the Pats. Randall Gay was also re-signed. The starting CB jobs, in my opinion, are both up for grabs with Hobbs, Gay, Samuel and Warfield battling it out. I hear people clamoring for a “play-maker†here, but this draft is not that deep at CB. Some people are clamoring for Antonio Cromartie because of his measurables. However, he has very little starting experience and is a 2-3 year project. I used to think that the following were guys who could interest the Pats include: Ashton Youboty, Anwar Phillips, Jonathan Joseph, Will Blackmon, and Marcus Maxey. However, I have moved away from all but Marcus Maxey and added Richard Marshall to my list. However, Will Blackmon could still interest the Patriots in the 4th round, but I don’t believe he is of value before that.

Safety - Rodney Harrison, Eugene Wilson, Guss Scott, James Sanders, Artrell Hawkins, Mel Mitchell, Tebucky Jones, Ray Ventrone- Rodney is a big question mark because of his injury. Reports are bery good and it looks like he will be ready for the start of the season, if not training camp. Wilson looked lost at times and tried to do too much. His poor play led to many people blaming Starks for some of the long plays the Pats gave up, though Wilson was the one truly out of position. BB seems to be very high on Guss Scott while Rodney was singing the praises of James Sanders. Artrell Hawkins also held his own as the veteran in the secondary once he got here and was re-signed. Mel Mitchell was signed to replace Michael Stone (arguably the Pats best special teams tackler last year). Tebuckey Jones was also signed this off-season. I think he was also signed to push for a spot on special teams. I originally thought that since the Patriots have 4 picks in the 1st 3 rounds and they could, potentially, take either a corner or a safety to help the team out. Many people are already clamoring for guys like Darnell Bing, Michael Huff, Bernard Pollard and Greg Blue. My question is which one of them has experience calling out defensive changes in the secondary and was a proven leader on their team. However, With the re-signing of Hawkins and the additions of Mitchell and Jones, I don’t see the Pats drafting a DB (CB or S) unless they feel that the player will come in and start right away. Anthony Smith could be one who could come in and start on special teams right away and push for a spot as a back-up safety over Scott or Sanders.

Don't forget that a lot of players you mentioned can play more than on position. Tully Banta-Cain can play, and Ryan Claridge, Eric Alexander, and Monty Beisel can also play OLB. Mike Vrabel can play OLB as we all know. Randall Gay, Chad Scott and Eric Warfield can all play safety. Eugene Wilson and Artrell Hawkins can also play corner. I've also heard murmurs that Richard Seymour can play NT.
 
zippo59 said:
Don't forget that a lot of players you mentioned can play more than on position. Tully Banta-Cain can play, and Ryan Claridge, Eric Alexander, and Monty Beisel can also play OLB. Mike Vrabel can play OLB as we all know. Randall Gay, Chad Scott and Eric Warfield can all play safety. Eugene Wilson and Artrell Hawkins can also play corner. I've also heard murmurs that Richard Seymour can play NT.

Come to think of it, is there any defensive position Vrabel can't play/hasn't played/wouldn't play? ;)
 
I generally agree with this excellent analysis, so let's discuss a bit more.

NOSE TACKLE
We could use a backup to improve on Wright. Maybe Thomas can beat him out for a spot, but I doubt it.

THE SEVENTH DEFENSIVE LINEMAN
Where is the need? What good are Thomas or Klecko. Call it it injury inscurance. Call it Hill insurance, in case he doesn't develop. Call it a role for a future linebacker. Call it what you want, but I would like this spot filled by a DE tweener.

LINEBACKER
I understand that we have different positions. But what difference does it make? Everybody can play anywhere. We have our starting rotation of Colvin,Vrabel,Bruschi,Banta-Cain and Beisel. It is up to others to prove that they deserve reps. This is the year we move to nine linebackers. We have Claridge, Davis and Izzo. We will bring in 2-3 linebackers. We will see who survives.

DEFENSIVE BACK
I think we'll draft a corner in the first round unless we sign one this week (or know that we will sign one). Hill and Marshall come to mind. Hopefully we will have a tough time getting down to ten competent healthy defensive backs. I see Harrison staritng on PUP. There is no need to rush him into action.

Other than Hill or Marshall, I see little point in drafting a defensive back. We have plenty other uses for draft picks.

BOTTOM LINE
NT,DE,LB,LB,CB

There are only seven spots. The defense will not get five, but perhaps they should. Four, with a corner signed as a free agent, would be fine. Three is more likely.
 
mgteich said:
I generally agree with this excellent analysis, so let's discuss a bit more.

NOSE TACKLE
We could use a backup to improve on Wright. Maybe Thomas can beat him out for a spot, but I doubt it.

THE SEVENTH DEFENSIVE LINEMAN
Where is the need? What good are Thomas or Klecko. Call it it injury inscurance. Call it Hill insurance, in case he doesn't develop. Call it a role for a future linebacker. Call it what you want, but I would like this spot filled by a DE tweener.

LINEBACKER
I understand that we have different positions. But what difference does it make? Everybody can play anywhere. We have our starting rotation of Colvin,Vrabel,Bruschi,Banta-Cain and Beisel. It is up to others to prove that they deserve reps. This is the year we move to nine linebackers. We have Claridge, Davis and Izzo. We will bring in 2-3 linebackers. We will see who survives.

DEFENSIVE BACK
I think we'll draft a corner in the first round unless we sign one this week (or know that we will sign one). Hill and Marshall come to mind. Hopefully we will have a tough time getting down to ten competent healthy defensive backs. I see Harrison staritng on PUP. There is no need to rush him into action.

Other than Hill or Marshall, I see little point in drafting a defensive back. We have plenty other uses for draft picks.

BOTTOM LINE
NT,DE,LB,LB,CB

There are only seven spots. The defense will not get five, but perhaps they should. Four, with a corner signed as a free agent, would be fine. Three is more likely.


We seem to have the cap room after his expectations drop. What do you think of Law? His 9 INT's and 14 PI penalties (5 were declined) indicate he was playing all out for stats last yr.
 
Ty Law is one of the best corners in the league. We would be lucky to have him. The issue, as always, is business.

We also should pick up Walker, Lelie or Stallworth.

jczxohn1 said:
We seem to have the cap room after his expectations drop. What do you think of Law? His 9 INT's and 14 PI penalties (5 were declined) indicate he was playing all out for stats last yr.
 
mgteich said:
Ty Law is one of the best corners in the league. We would be lucky to have him. The issue, as always, is business.

We also should pick up Walker, Lelie or Stallworth.
This needs a bump, it's on Page 2 already.

I would love to get Law back and one of the WR. With $17M in cap space we can do it.
 
Zippo - I haven't forgotten that some of the players can play more than one position. However, I really don't see Hawkins as an option any more as a CB. He was torched as bad as Starks was when he had to play CB in the Denver Play-off game.

So, yes, Gay and C. Scott can play at the FS position and Wilson can move over to the CB spot. You also have Troy Brown and Bam Childress who could be emergency fill-ins at CB. And Don Davis could be an emergency fill-in at safety.
 
DaBruinz - thanks for doing this. GREAT thread. A quick question:

On what do you base your comment that BB is high on Guss Scott? Have you heard/read something or are you simply interpreting, given that Belichick keeps bringing him back despite the injury history?
 
patsox23 said:
DaBruinz - thanks for doing this. GREAT thread. A quick question:

On what do you base your comment that BB is high on Guss Scott? Have you heard/read something or are you simply interpreting, given that Belichick keeps bringing him back despite the injury history?

I was basing it on comments I heard from Belichick about Scott. Also, the fact that they keep bringing him back. Belichick was really high on Scott coming out of camp last year. Well, until Scott got hurt again.
 
There is a lot of talk about drafting a SS or CB high. I just don't know where to put them.

We have a lot of youngsters and some pretty good not-too-oldies, too. Tebucky, Hawkins, and Chad Scott were all long time starters and now are looked at as depth, while the oldest is only going on 31.


How good is Randy, Asante, Ellis, Geno, James or Guss? Thats six pretty good youngsters and only Geno can really be said to be established. Its also an entire defensive backfield and then some.

and then there is Rodney...
 
How good is the DL depth? Jarvis, Marquis, Mike, Santonio and Dan are fighting fro three spots. Or more accurately Jarvis has his, and the other four are competing for two reserve spots.

Actually that is quite a bit of talent for those two places. Marquis is a high pick youngster not havinf shown much yet; Mike came out of nowhere; Dan has been trying to fit in and has a high motor; and Santonio has the talent everyone says, but hes always nicked up.

Do the Pats draft another NT? I can't decide and I'm not privy to the workouts and the Coaches thoughts. Anyone?
 
AzPatsFan said:
Do the Pats draft another NT? I can't decide and I'm not privy to the workouts and the Coaches thoughts. Anyone?

Az, I keep putting this out there - best player available. Sure need plays into that, all else being equal, but I don't think this is even a need situation.

So yeah, if your monster nose tackle with a 3-4 two-gap pedigree, and the right attitude, intelligence, and character for the Pats has first-round skills, but slips to the third, it's a no-brainer: In that circumstance, the Pats draft a nose tackle (assuming BB/SP agree he has those incredible skills.)

But do they go in saying "who'll be our nose tackle choice..."? They might do that at linebacker, but probably not. They're all about discipline. Set the value, pick the player... (as I understand it.)

PFnV
 
AzPatsFan said:
How good is the DL depth? Jarvis, Marquis, Mike, Santonio and Dan are fighting fro three spots. Or more accurately Jarvis has his, and the other four are competing for two reserve spots.

Actually that is quite a bit of talent for those two places. Marquis is a high pick youngster not havinf shown much yet; Mike came out of nowhere; Dan has been trying to fit in and has a high motor; and Santonio has the talent everyone says, but hes always nicked up.

Do the Pats draft another NT? I can't decide and I'm not privy to the workouts and the Coaches thoughts. Anyone?
I think PFVa has it right, I've got 5 DL on my Master Board, 3 maybe 4 of them could be backups for Vince, and 3 of them could be like Jarvis and Wright able to play any position. If you hit a lull in the middle rounds, grab one just to improve the competition. If you just want another heavyweight behind Vince, you can wait and find a UDFA.
 
Great review. Looks like we have pretty good depth at every position on defense.
 
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