Patriots held private workout with FSU WR Kelvin Benjamin

[BelichickFan]

Just a note:

Since I don't expect BB to go WR in round 1, I'm all for lots of them being picked ahead of the Patriots round 1 selection.

Yeah, I said the same thing in the draft forum. Bring on all the WR through pick 28. Hopefully the other teams are all seeing Bill work out these WR and feeling the need to beat him to the punch and get them all before we can get one. Then we'll be stuck taking a stupid lineman

 

[Brady6]

Just a note:

Since I don't expect BB to go WR in round 1, I'm all for lots of them being picked ahead of the Patriots round 1 selection.

I would not be caught up in the WR positional title when talking about a player like Benjamin, if Belichick was to select Benjamin he could use him exactly how he used Hernandez and create the same type of matchups.

 

[SB39]

Holy *****, this guy is a 6'5" MONSTER!

Maybe he can line up opposite former FSU WR and current Patriot great P.K. Sam.

Oh wait......... :bricks:

 

[VJCPatriot]

I would add one further argument against it: Brandon Coleman. He doesn't have the 240lb body, but in every other regard, he's the same physical specimen and he could be had much later.

They have now had contact with Coleman, Evans and Benjamin. I think there's definite interest in adding this bigger bodied receiver.

Yup, not to mention that they draft Dobson (6'2) and signed Lafell (6'2). So I believe the Patriots are definitely trying to mix in the bigger bodied receivers with their smurfs (Edelman, Amendola). I think this is a Josh McDaniels inspired evolution of the offense.

We saw what he did with guys like Randy Moss, Brandon Marshall, and Demaryius Thomas. Not that there will ever be another Randy Moss. BUT, the big physical receivers can pose matchup problems that having nothing to do with their speed.

Kelvin Benjamins size and physique are impressive:
Coming in at 6'5" and a chiseled 240 pounds, he casts an imposing shadow. Add 34.875" arms and 10.25" hands, and it is easy to understand why many consider him a first-round pick.

I mean his arms are longer than the average offensive lineman! When you think catch radius, wow. He is going to be a HUGE downfield target for somebody. His only weaknesses imo are that he's not really an explosive leaper, only 33" vert and his long speed is meh with a 4.61 40 at the combine.

What I'm wondering is if BB is considering using Benjamin as hybrid WR/TE who moves all over the formation ala Hernandez. He certainly has the size to play a move TE role.

I wouldn't be mad if we traded down and drafted Benjamin. Particularly if guys like ASJ and Amaro are already gone. Benjamin would be a decent backup plan.

I find this video showing strengths and weaknesses to be more helpful. And with his body and open field running, I can picture him as our next move TE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tCxXqPcdNes

 

[Big-T]

Can people please stop saying that every tall WR can run the "Hernandez routes" :bricks: first it was Harrison then LaFell and now Kelvin Benjamin. Hernandez was good because he was shifty and elusive - that is what caused the mismatches.

If they wanted a player like him they would likely draft another H back type of player, Benjamin can play out of the slot yes but don't let his 40 time fool you - he gets open deep too. If he sorts out his concentration lapses which lead to easy drops he could be a very good WR, he already has the advantage over most DBs with a big height difference.

 

[manxman2601]

Yup, not to mention that they draft Dobson (6'2) and signed Lafell (6'2). So I believe the Patriots are definitely trying to mix in the bigger bodied receivers with their smurfs (Edelman, Amendola). I think this is a Josh McDaniels inspired evolution of the offense.

We saw what he did with guys like Randy Moss, Brandon Marshall, and Demaryius Thomas. Not that there will ever be another Randy Moss. BUT, the big physical receivers can pose matchup problems that having nothing to do with their speed.

Kelvin Benjamins size and physique are impressive:
Coming in at 6'5" and a chiseled 240 pounds, he casts an imposing shadow. Add 34.875" arms and 10.25" hands, and it is easy to understand why many consider him a first-round pick.

I mean his arms are longer than the average offensive lineman! When you think catch radius, wow. He is going to be a HUGE downfield target for somebody. His only weaknesses imo are that he's not really an explosive leaper, only 33" vert and his long speed is meh with a 4.61 40 at the combine.

What I'm wondering is if BB is considering using Benjamin as hybrid WR/TE who moves all over the formation ala Hernandez. He certainly has the size to play a move TE role.

I wouldn't be mad if we traded down and drafted Benjamin. Particularly if guys like ASJ and Amaro are already gone. Benjamin would be a decent backup plan.

I don't think they'll get Benjamin by trading down. A couple of spots maybe but I wouldn't risk him falling past the Seahawks.

I'm not too worried about his lack of great athleticism because with that size and wingspan his body gives him the separation anyway. How does a 6'0" DB with 31" arms cover that?

And this is why he'll be a similar mismatch threat like Hernandez. Put a DB on him and you are giving up loads of size. Put a 6'4" linebacker on him and you are giving up speed. Benjamin is almost exactly the same in terms of size, strength and athleticism as Jermichael Finley. The only difference is is that Finley ran in the 4.8's, Benjamin in the low 4.6s.

 

[manxman2601]

Can people please stop saying that every tall WR can run the "Hernandez routes" :bricks: first it was Harrison then LaFell and now Kelvin Benjamin. Hernandez was good because he was shifty and elusive - that is what caused the mismatches.

If they wanted a player like him they would likely draft another H back type of player, Benjamin can play out of the slot yes but don't let his 40 time fool you - he gets open deep too. If he sorts out his concentration lapses which lead to easy drops he could be a very good WR, he already has the advantage over most DBs with a big height difference.

Yes Hernandez was more elusive but what we lacked by losing Hernandez last year was that size on those inside routes from the slot and this is what Benjamin would provide. And like Hernandez, he's also going to be a mismatch to cover. He's too quick for all but the very best linebackers and too big for almost any DB to cover.

 

[mayoclinic]

I don't think they'll get Benjamin by trading down. A couple of spots maybe but I wouldn't risk him falling past the Seahawks.

I'm not too worried about his lack of great athleticism because with that size and wingspan his body gives him the separation anyway. How does a 6'0" DB with 31" arms cover that?

And this is why he'll be a similar mismatch threat like Hernandez. Put a DB on him and you are giving up loads of size. Put a 6'4" linebacker on him and you are giving up speed. Benjamin is almost exactly the same in terms of size, strength and athleticism as Jermichael Finley. The only difference is is that Finley ran in the 4.8's, Benjamin in the low 4.6s.

Jamie Collins could cover him. Brandon Browner would match up nicely. For that matter, Aqib Talib did a pretty solid job on 6'6"+ Jimmy Graham, IIRC.

Benjamin is obviously a difficult matchup, and a nice red zone threat. But I'm still not convinced that he'll be a complete package. If all it took was size and wingspan, Jonathan Baldwin (6'4 3/8", 33 5/8" arms, 42" VJ, 4.49 40) would be an All Pro.

 

[Big-T]

Is he too "quick" for a LB though? Aren't his times in the agility drills pretty slow?

One thing he could do though is take the Mychal Kendricks, Jamie Collins & Lavonte David types away from a TE and move the mismatch elsewhere.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Jamie Collins could cover him. Brandon Browner would match up nicely. For that matter, Aqib Talib did a pretty solid job on 6'6"+ Jimmy Graham, IIRC.

The counterpoint would be this -- how many teams have athletic freaks like Jamie Collins to matchup with the TE? How many teams have big physical CBs like Browner? Not that many. Take a look around the league.

Benjamin is obviously a difficult matchup, and a nice red zone threat. But I'm still not convinced that he'll be a complete package. If all it took was size and wingspan, Jonathan Baldwin (6'4 3/8", 33 5/8" arms, 42" VJ, 4.49 40) would be an All Pro.

Well it's always been true that measurables don't tell the whole story. But it's a starting point for discussion. As far as the whole package of size and athleticism, Benjamin makes it really tough for DBs to cover him. I think the point of drafting a guy like Benjamin is to move him around the 'chessboard' and seek out those mismatches. You think Gronk was hard to cover? Now you're moving a guy like Benjamin up and down the formation, a guy who can play inside or outside routes, and how do you match up?

Not to mention with guys like Edelman and Amendola slicing and dicing on the shorter patterns, now Benjamin hits it up the seam, and Gronk runs a deep crossing pattern, what does the defense do? I think someone was talking about putting a 'Queen' on the chessboard.

If Benjamin could convert to the move TE role, he could put up monstrous results. Most linebackers are too slow, and most CBs and Safeties are too small to cover him 1 on 1.

And although I don't put too much stock in college numbers, it's comforting to see that the athleticism did translate to production on the field. Benjamin put up 1,011 yards 15 TDs and 18.7 YPC last year in the ACC.

Kelvin Benjamin Stats - Florida State Seminoles - ESPN

So although some scouts say his game is still improving, ie he could improve his route running, catch concentration, etc. he still managed to produce.

Last year the Patriots redzone production dipped considerably. It is no surprise that they are now looking at prospects who could help improve that redzone scoring percentage.

 

[manxman2601]

Is he too "quick" for a LB though? Aren't his times in the agility drills pretty slow?

One thing he could do though is take the Mychal Kendricks, Jamie Collins & Lavonte David types away from a TE and move the mismatch elsewhere.

There were two linebackers at the combine faster than Benjamin, so yes, he's quicker than most linebackers.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Good article on the deep crossing route:
Smart Football: Deep Crossing Route - Larry Fitzgerald style

Could we utilize a guy like Benjamin in a similar way?

Honestly, I can see why most people are not sold on a WR in round 1. However if Benjamin acts more like a TE for our offense, I could see the value. Love gronk, but we just can't depend on him to be healthy 100% of the time anymore. If BB sees Benjamin as the next Hernandez for our offense, then the value is definitely there.

And yes it is risky to project a player at another position, but conversions happen all the time and Benjamin actually has the body that would fit into the TE position perfectly. BUT as a bonus he has WR speed and can play on the outside if need be.

Brady talks a lot about finding mismatches when he's running the offense. Kelvin Benjamin could be such a mismatch. I'm not invested in drafting him, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did happen. I just think BB is exploring all of his options, as he should. There are some guys who could slip to us at #29 or we might trade back and pick another guy who can help us a little later and get some extra picks. Or there might be no attractive trade available and we just take the BPA at that point.

 

[manxman2601]

If all it took was size and wingspan, Jonathan Baldwin (6'4 3/8", 33 5/8" arms, 42" VJ, 4.49 40) would be an All Pro.

In the book, “War Room: The Legacy of Bill Belichick and the Art of Building the Perfect Team” [Michael] Holley writes about Belichick, Kansas City’s Scott Pioli and Falcons general manager Thomas Dimitroff thoughts on building that perfect team.

A couple of things in the review caught my attention.

1. After Dimitroff called Belichick “as a friend,” the mentor advised him not to make the Julio Jones trade. He felt the Falcons should have stayed at No. 27 and picked Pittsburgh’s Jonathan Baldwin.


Read more at Bill Belichick Advised Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff Against The Julio Jones Trade | Robert Littal Presents BlackSportsOnline

So you are saying it's going to happen then.

 

[stinkypete]

Yeah, there's no way in hell he's lasting until 29. He also ran a pretty slow 40 time, but that's not what he'll be drafted high for. He would fit in perfectly for an offense like Baltimore's that likes to lob up jump balls.

Sure he can fall to #29, and he could fall deep. Look at the WR depth (Lee, Beckham, Cooks, Robinson, etc, plus Amaro and ASJ at TE). WRs are tough to call. Teams hone in on a particular skill set and a guy like Benjamin gets taken top 20 or he falls to the bottom of round 2.

 

[patsfan-1982]

they said last year was a deep WR class to and maybe it will still turn out to be but only 2 WR's from last year made a impact as rookies, Keenan Allen and DeAndre Hopkins, so with that said I want the pats to go OL and DL with the first two picks.

if they cant get one of the top two WR's and they wont I don't see a reason to draft one in the first or 2th only to have them be a 40 rec #4 WR when they could have a day one starter at RG or center

 

[ATippett56]

Move to draft board ..... PLEASE!

 

[mayoclinic]

I find it ludicrous how much lover their is for Benjamin in this thread just based on the fact that he's as big as a house. The NFL has seen plenty of big WRs who have been busts:

- Mike Williams, USC (2005): one of Matt Millen's infamous 3 consecutive top 10 WR picks. 6' 4 5/8" 231#. Ran a 4.56 40 with a 6.98 3-cone. 38.5" VJ, 10'3" BJ. Was a total bust in the NFL - IIRC, he didn't even make it in the CFL.

- Jonathan Baldwin, Pittsburgh (2011): 6' 4 3/8" 228# with 4.49 speed and a 42" vertical. 10'9" BJ, 7.07 3C. Was a bust with Kansas City, traded to SF, hasn't done anything in 3 seasons.

- Ramses Barden, Cal Poly (2009). 6'6" 221# WR with 4.51 speed, which got him drafted in the 3rd round by the Giants. Didn't put up more than 220 receiving yards in any of his 4 seasons with Giants, and hasn't scored a TD in the NFL. Sat out all of 2013, recently signed with Buffalo.

Not to mention Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett, and others. If being tall and running a sub-4.6 40 was all it took, these guys would be stars.

 

[manxman2601]

I find it ludicrous how much lover their is for Benjamin in this thread just based on the fact that he's as big as a house. The NFL has seen plenty of big WRs who have been busts:

- Mike Williams, USC (2005): one of Matt Millen's infamous 3 consecutive top 10 WR picks. 6' 4 5/8" 231#. Ran a 4.56 40 with a 6.98 3-cone. 38.5" VJ, 10'3" BJ. Was a total bust in the NFL - IIRC, he didn't even make it in the CFL.

- Jonathan Baldwin, Pittsburgh (2011): 6' 4 3/8" 228# with 4.49 speed and a 42" vertical. 10'9" BJ, 7.07 3C. Was a bust with Kansas City, traded to SF, hasn't done anything in 3 seasons.

- Ramses Barden, Cal Poly (2009). 6'6" 221# WR with 4.51 speed, which got him drafted in the 3rd round by the Giants. Didn't put up more than 220 receiving yards in any of his 4 seasons with Giants, and hasn't scored a TD in the NFL. Sat out all of 2013, recently signed with Buffalo.

Not to mention Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett, and others. If being tall and running a sub-4.6 40 was all it took, these guys would be stars.

Straw man argument.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I find it ludicrous how much lover their is for Benjamin in this thread just based on the fact that he's as big as a house. The NFL has seen plenty of big WRs who have been busts:

- Mike Williams, USC (2005): one of Matt Millen's infamous 3 consecutive top 10 WR picks. 6' 4 5/8" 231#. Ran a 4.56 40 with a 6.98 3-cone. 38.5" VJ, 10'3" BJ. Was a total bust in the NFL - IIRC, he didn't even make it in the CFL.

- Jonathan Baldwin, Pittsburgh (2011): 6' 4 3/8" 228# with 4.49 speed and a 42" vertical. 10'9" BJ, 7.07 3C. Was a bust with Kansas City, traded to SF, hasn't done anything in 3 seasons.

- Ramses Barden, Cal Poly (2009). 6'6" 221# WR with 4.51 speed, which got him drafted in the 3rd round by the Giants. Didn't put up more than 220 receiving yards in any of his 4 seasons with Giants, and hasn't scored a TD in the NFL. Sat out all of 2013, recently signed with Buffalo.

Not to mention Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett, and others. If being tall and running a sub-4.6 40 was all it took, these guys would be stars.

Those guy's failures don't mean that Benjamin will be a bust. Also, those guys never had Tom Brady as their QB. Brady has helped make an undrafted 5'9" WR into a Hall Of Fame possibility and a 7th round former QB into a 105 catch receiver.

There is this one video where Benjamin talks about his main priority in football is "to win". I like when a player talks about only caring about winning. Also talked about helping his teammates becoming better. Let's not forget, this guy is a champion, and made the championship winning catch. Very clutch. Sure he could wind up being a bust, but he could also wind up being a BIG redzone target for Brady. I know Benjamin's vertical #'s seemed very low, but man, watch the highlights, I'll be damned if some of those jump balls, he seemed to be way up there, Lynn Swann like body control and hang time. Brady can throw passes where only Benjamin can catch them, like he does with Gronk.

I can only dream of Gronk, Draft TE, Dobson, Lafell, Edelman, Amendola and Benjamin as Brady's targets. As well as Vereen. But, just like the title of this thread says, Pats work out Benjamin. Only BB and staff know how they felt about Benjamin after the workout, who knows, maybe they were unimpressed.

 

[mayoclinic]

Straw man argument.

All I hear is "he's bigger than a CB and faster than a LB". Whoopee. It takes more than that to be successful.