Patriots have #1 offense (PPG) in the NFL

[51Hits]

There is not an -issue- aside from the fans desire to scapegoat someone for every single drive that doesn't end in 7.



Wrong.



Last year Moss/Welker had 50.7% of all targets. They had 52% in 2007. Harrison/Wayne had 51% on the colts in 06. In 2010 so far Moss/Welker have 46% of all targets. Wayne/Clark have 46.8%.

Let's pretend he didn't miss all of 2008, ignore any potential coaching problems in the 2nd half of 8 games last year, ignore the ENORMOUS drop off in talent with other receiving options and ignore still being 3rd in yards and 6th in points on offense so that we can accuse Brady of having some sort of binky isssue. Hey we can also pretend Brady was merely a system QB and is not in fact a HOF QB.

Dude, stop licking your Brady poster. I didn't know you had some deep connection with him so much that if I critized him you'd go nuts.

Again, I love when people only use stats as their argument. If you want to act like we had a great passing attack last year, that's you. But it become all too predictable to teams and they knew what to do against us.

All week last week it's all over the board about Brady locking onto his targets, now after a W it's a complete non-issue. Jeez. I never said it was a big issue, all I said is it COULD, key word, COULD be an issue for us. It's ridiculous, I suggest what could be an issue now I got you guys on me like pit bulls.


I'll be glad to be proven wrong, but there's reasons this offense stalls sometimes. They're not perfect.

 

[GrogansHeros]

Peyton Manning's Colts say Hi!

23rd ranked D in 2006 when winning his lone SB

They had a very similar situation to this years PATS....a great offense with a young D secondary who got better as the year went on....

 

[emoney_33]

Dude, stop licking your Brady poster. I didn't know you had some deep connection with him so much that if I critized him you'd go nuts.

Again, I love when people only use stats as their argument. If you want to act like we had a great passing attack last year, that's you. But it become all too predictable to teams and they knew what to do against us.

Sorry, I was unaware that you couldn't handle facts. Please enjoy your fantasy land.

All week last week it's all over the board about Brady locking onto his targets, now after a W it's a complete non-issue. Jeez. I never said it was a big issue, all I said is it COULD, key word, COULD be an issue for us. It's ridiculous, I suggest what could be an issue now I got you guys on me like pit bulls.

I apologize, I forgot that if it's "all over the board" then it must be true.

I'll be glad to be proven wrong, but there's reasons this offense stalls sometimes. They're not perfect.

I've already supplied you with facts, but you just swept them under the rug.

 

[Calciumee]

That's impressive considering we only scored 14 against the Jest!

 

[Sicilian]

but there's reasons this offense stalls sometimes. They're not perfect.

You could apply this statement to any offense in the history of the national football league. Congratulations.

 

[JMarr]

No, the 2007 defense had 2 very good pass rushers in Vrabel and Colvin that had great years and pinned their ears back once we were ahead. We were #2 in sacks that year. It was all about the offense setting the game up for the defense that year. If that 07 squad had the 03 or 04's front 7 level of dominance they would have massacred every team that season.

Seymour, Ty Warren, Bruschi, Rodney Harrison, Junior Seau, Adalius Thomas, Asante, Jarvis Green, and Randall Gay all say "hi." Are you serious? That defense makes this year's look Pop Warner caliber.

And "Defense Wins Championships" still holds true--just as much as "High powered passing attacks are now the norm in the NFL." Saints D was above solid last year. 2008? Pittsburgh's D was their strength. 2007? Same thing--the Giants' D was stellar--Eli sucked b*lls that year. 2006? Yea, you could make the argument that the Colts won without a particularly a good defense.

But anyone who thinks that the Pats will win anything this year solely on the strength of the Offense really is kidding themselves.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Defense doesn't win championships in today's nfl. Those days are gone because of all the new rules that kind of limits the defense. Now the teams with the amazing defenses (such as the jets and ravens) can't compete with the passing games of the Saints, Colts, etc....

Agreed- if defense wins championships, then someone forgot to mention that to the Saints. These were their team rankings in 2009:

PPG: 21.3 (20th)
Y/G: 358 (25th)
3rd down conversion %: 38% (14th)
Rushing Y/G: 122 (21st)
Sacks: 35 (13th)
Interceptions: 26 (3rd)
Fumbles Recovered: 13 (T-5th)

So basically, the Saints had an average-to-below-average defense which was able to force a lot of turnovers because its opponents were always playing catchup and taking high-risk throws. If the Pats' D can get to that point, they'll have a fighting chance. I'm skeptical that it'll happen this year, but it wouldn't be the strangest thing we've seen in the last decade.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Seymour, Ty Warren, Bruschi, Rodney Harrison, Junior Seau, Adalius Thomas, Asante, Jarvis Green, and Randall Gay all say "hi." Are you serious? That defense makes this year's look Pop Warner caliber.

And "Defense Wins Championships" still holds true--just as much as "High powered passing attacks are now the norm in the NFL." Saints D was above solid last year. 2008? Pittsburgh's D was their strength. 2007? Same thing--the Giants' D was stellar--Eli sucked b*lls that year. 2006? Yea, you could make the argument that the Colts won without a particularly a good defense.

But anyone who thinks that the Pats will win anything this year solely on the strength of the Offense really is kidding themselves.

A lot of the guys that you listed were JAGs to begin with, and most of the others were diminished in '07 due to injury, age, or both. That wasn't an especially good defense. It was still miles ahead of where the current defense is, but any optimism on our part has to be predicated on the hopes that this defense makes major strides over the next few months.

 

[Disco Volante]

The 2007 defense actually had the second best pass rush (47 sacks) in the NFL.

 

[lamafist]

The 2007 defense actually had the second best pass rush (47 sacks) in the NFL.

Actually, the offense deserves just as much credit for those 47 sacks. The '07 Pats played with a two-TD lead or more for more than any team in NFL history. When you've got big leads, especially in the 2nd half, opposing offenses are forced to pass more to lengthen the game, and you can let your rushers pin their ears back and key on the QB.

The '07 Pats were such an abberation, you can't even really try to correct the sack rate for down and distances faced, as the stat pool was so skewed toward one type of situation.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

On the brighter side of things, after 3 weeks of football the Patriots have the highest scoring offense in the NFL.

Packers were #1 coming into to tonight but fell to fourth. Do you see the Patriots still having the best offense by the end of the season? Do you think the Colts, Packers, Chargers or Texans are better?

As I've said in other threads my biggest problems with the offense are the low-% long shots that often end up incomplete and end up putting you in 3rd and long situations. Taylor looks good to start games, then disappears.

What is it with Brady? I would like to ask someone who watches the game more sober than me. Why does it seem that he is afraid to spread the field, on Sunday for instance I kept yelling 'Give Tate a chance, its game 3 already' and of course right on cue Tate literally tosses it to the Bills defense for a fumble, but ignoring that slip up, it seems we have more depth than last year but still revert to one dimensional passing.

I really don't understand it, Brady loves to overthrow Moss or hit him in double coverage when there is a 2/10 chance he nails it, and the announcers go crazy saying 'Oh yea Randy is always a threat' but since 07 he hasn't been that huge of a threat, our biggest weapon is spreading the field giving it to multiple receivers and the TEs, and I notice when we struggle it is because he is locked on Welker for a short gain, or Moss for an EASY incompletion. Its as if he has Moss on his fantasy and would rather him rack up stats than to actually play the defense and win the game.

I was just so pissed against the Jets because they have many holes, and we didn't exploit them. Once Revis left instead of playing the defense he went 'lol no Revis, Moss time' and had one of his worst 2 quarters. With Cro number one we could have attacked Wilson/?? playing the 2nd and 3rd position, and we would have rested our defense while still racking points. I just feel the only thing stopping us from scoring 30 a game again isn't the defense, it is Brady/play calling always going for the obvious play, when you watch Manning play he trusts any bum out there, with Brady he lacks that and I feel he could be better than Manning if he learned that trust. Someone remind him he won his 3 SBs without Moss, without 1,000 receivers making highlight reels.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Hard to say who I think is better.

Last year, this offense just couldn't get it done in the passing game outside of Moss and Welker, it just wasn't going to possibly happen. This year they have all the potential in the world to be the 2nd best offense we've ever had. So far this season, only 2 things have stopped this offense at times.

1. Brady locking onto Moss and Welker. During the Bills game while they were stalling, Brady was constantly throwing to a double, somtimes triple covered Moss and Welker. Everytime he used all the weapons, the Patriots marched down the field.

2. Blocking. Sometimes our OL just doesn't want to play. It seems like in road game particularly, late in the 2nd half the OL goes soft as cake. No run blocking, getting Brady hit, etc. This hasn't been a big problem, but just one of the only things stopping them.

The only 2 questions I have for the offense is

Please lord, can we stay healthy? and no. 2...

Is Brady going to wake up? Is he going to spread the ball around? (one second he does, the next game he's captain lock on again) If Brady can get used to all his weapons, this offense is going to be maddening to stop.

If Brady can get everyone, even Tates included in the passing game coordinators will have no clue whatsoever where the ball is going during the play, a far cry from last season.

The offense needs a running game period. When all we ever do is throw teams can play man to man and double Welker/Moss. The Jets game second half is case in point

When we prove we can run and make teams respect that (and stick it with it through a game) it opens up a whole lot of things including PA, draws, etc

 

[Uncle Rico]

What is it with Brady? I would like to ask someone who watches the game more sober than me. Why does it seem that he is afraid to spread the field, on Sunday for instance I kept yelling 'Give Tate a chance, its game 3 already' and of course right on cue Tate literally tosses it to the Bills defense for a fumble, but ignoring that slip up, it seems we have more depth than last year but still revert to one dimensional passing.

I really don't understand it, Brady loves to overthrow Moss or hit him in double coverage when there is a 2/10 chance he nails it, and the announcers go crazy saying 'Oh yea Randy is always a threat' but since 07 he hasn't been that huge of a threat, our biggest weapon is spreading the field giving it to multiple receivers and the TEs, and I notice when we struggle it is because he is locked on Welker for a short gain, or Moss for an EASY incompletion. Its as if he has Moss on his fantasy and would rather him rack up stats than to actually play the defense and win the game.

I was just so pissed against the Jets because they have many holes, and we didn't exploit them. Once Revis left instead of playing the defense he went 'lol no Revis, Moss time' and had one of his worst 2 quarters. With Cro number one we could have attacked Wilson/?? playing the 2nd and 3rd position, and we would have rested our defense while still racking points. I just feel the only thing stopping us from scoring 30 a game again isn't the defense, it is Brady/play calling always going for the obvious play, when you watch Manning play he trusts any bum out there, with Brady he lacks that and I feel he could be better than Manning if he learned that trust. Someone remind him he won his 3 SBs without Moss, without 1,000 receivers making highlight reels.

This strikes me as one game too late. Looked to me like Brady spread it around very well against Buffalo, only went to Moss I think three times and dropped it in beautifully for a couple of TDs. TEs were a big part of things and the running game was finally a significant factor. I would like to see more from Tate but the fumble last week and the penalty v the Jets don't exactly put him in line for a ton more opportunities.

Anyway, here's hoping we keep seeing the variety this week.

 

[loloooooooooooo]

Actually, the offense deserves just as much credit for those 47 sacks. The '07 Pats played with a two-TD lead or more for more than any team in NFL history. When you've got big leads, especially in the 2nd half, opposing offenses are forced to pass more to lengthen the game, and you can let your rushers pin their ears back and key on the QB.

The '07 Pats were such an abberation, you can't even really try to correct the sack rate for down and distances faced, as the stat pool was so skewed toward one type of situation.

not really

 

[Kontradiction]

Agreed- if defense wins championships, then someone forgot to mention that to the Saints. These were their team rankings in 2009:

PPG: 21.3 (20th)
Y/G: 358 (25th)
3rd down conversion %: 38% (14th)
Rushing Y/G: 122 (21st)
Sacks: 35 (13th)
Interceptions: 26 (3rd)
Fumbles Recovered: 13 (T-5th)

So basically, the Saints had an average-to-below-average defense which was able to force a lot of turnovers because its opponents were always playing catchup and taking high-risk throws. If the Pats' D can get to that point, they'll have a fighting chance. I'm skeptical that it'll happen this year, but it wouldn't be the strangest thing we've seen in the last decade.

Yeah, it doesn't take an amazing defense to win a championship in the NFL anymore. The Saints, last year, had a defense JUST good enough to get the job done when it mattered. I'm certainly not expecting a shutdown defense out of the Pats this year. As I've said before, our ceiling is the 2009 Saints. If that can happen, and our offense can actually execute through all four quarters of a road game, there's nothing stopping us from going all the way. However, our defense has a LOOOOONG way to go before it even reaches "just good enough" status.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

This strikes me as one game too late. Looked to me like Brady spread it around very well against Buffalo, only went to Moss I think three times and dropped it in beautifully for a couple of TDs. TEs were a big part of things and the running game was finally a significant factor. I would like to see more from Tate but the fumble last week and the penalty v the Jets don't exactly put him in line for a ton more opportunities.

Anyway, here's hoping we keep seeing the variety this week.

But Buffalo is horrible, I mean the weight on our shoulder is Rex and his team, they talk and then we failed to shut them up.

I just don't want it to be like last year where we put up near 40 a game on Buf and then struggle to a good defense, why not spread the ball around against a Jets defense that barely put pressure on him, I could see if he didn't have time but he just forced it. Again this Buf game for the most part is being ignored by everyone, no football fan even acknowledges them as a serious team so those stats are kind of misleading.

I just see Fitz hitting bums left and right, Sanchez going to a guy like Keller who couldn't find the markers week 1 for a huge night, so why not give Tate or Price/Aiken or whoever we have a chance? In 07 we had Stallworth number 2 so Welker could get the slot time, last two seasons we have signed a good number of guys and cut them in favor of predictable offense.

I saw the stats and if its true he is spreading it more than Peyton (hard to believe watching them both) then we honestly can not claim the best offense, because Peyton would have made the Jets pay, and if we spread it with this line avoiding pressure, no excuses for 14 points 3 TOs and a horrible yard count.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Post all the stats you want, its been 3 games and only one game has Brady did what I said is an issue. He was doing it for like 2-3 drives sunday, but snapped out of it. I didn't say it's an issue I said it's one of the issues that could stop us.

Last year, yes, we had issues. Nobody could make a play in our receiver core outside of Moss and Welker. So he had to lock down, but it was pointed out a few times he missed an open guy due to locking onto Moss or Welker. What killed us against the Jets? Brady going away from the TEs and trying to prove something for Moss all day.

I'm not trying to start a fight, just saying. And yes, Brady has always spread the ball around, just not last year and sometimes this season I've seen caution signs. I bet if you look at the last few years, Manning has spread it around more though. I'm just guessing, but I'd be interested to actually see it. Not calling you out to post it, I'm more curious than anything. No big deal if you dont want to or anything.

This.

Overall Brady moves the ball around. Yet we've seen stretches where he keeps hitting the same receiver. Both of the past two games contain examples where on one drive Tommy kept hitting Hernandez. You get spells where you have a good match-up and the defense doesn't have the answer quickly enough, but the problem comes when you aren't connecting and keep going to that well.

The Brady I watched in the Jester's game was looking long for Moss in the second half. Part of that may relate to the need to score quickly and make a big play to pressure the defense, but there were other options on the field which often seemed more open. I don't mind it when the guy he "locks onto" is making the reception (Welker, Hernandez with their streaks in games), it's when he's not connecting with a player, consistently, and the Pats are in a pickle, then I've got to ask WTF?, because we all know he is a master at finding the open man. I guess it helped that he asked WTF? of himself after the jester game.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Yeah, it doesn't take an amazing defense to win a championship in the NFL anymore. The Saints, last year, had a defense JUST good enough to get the job done when it mattered. I'm certainly not expecting a shutdown defense out of the Pats this year. As I've said before, our ceiling is the 2009 Saints. If that can happen, and our offense can actually execute through all four quarters of a road game, there's nothing stopping us from going all the way. However, our defense has a LOOOOONG way to go before it even reaches "just good enough" status.

The Saints defense got a turnover literally every time they needed one, be it to ice a game (SB 44) win a fluke (Washington, Vikings) or change momentum (Dolphins, Patriots.) If our defense can suddenly start forcing fumbles and making key picks then yeah I love our chances, granted I'm also not as down on this team as some on this forum.

 

[Calciumee]

The Saints defense got a turnover literally every time they needed one, be it to ice a game (SB 44) win a fluke (Washington, Vikings) or change momentum (Dolphins, Patriots.) If our defense can suddenly start forcing fumbles and making key picks then yeah I love our chances, granted I'm also not as down on this team as some on this forum.

A team must think that, after getting all the turnovers when needed, that it could easily be their year!

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

The offense needs a running game period. When all we ever do is throw teams can play man to man and double Welker/Moss. The Jets game second half is case in point

When we prove we can run and make teams respect that (and stick it with it through a game) it opens up a whole lot of things including PA, draws, etc

I've actually been very pleased with our run game so far this year. It has exceeded my expectations. As has the rest of our offensive play. Our O-line is holding up well and our rookie TEs are playing great. Can you really say that you expected the offense to click this well this soon?