OT: The Who to play the Super Bowl halftime show

[Angry Man]

Here's hoping its Pink Floyd for the 2010 Super Bowl!!!

I can't see it happening. Especially now that Richard Wright is no longer with us.

(And Syd)

 

[realtime]

Moon was garbage?!? Almost universally considered one of the best rock drummers of all time garbage?!? You at most polls by publications that actually know music and Moon, John Bonham, and Neil Peart are your top three drummers. No Moon wasn't a great technical drummer, but he was still an amazing drummer with an unique style (at least at the time).

All four members of the Who were among the best at their perspective roles. That was why they were such an amazing band. Four immensley talented musicians.

All you have to do is listen to Kenny Jones trying to immitate Moon's style on Face Dances and It's Hard and you can hear how truly special Moon's drumming really was. "You Better, You Bet" is one of my favorite Who song, but the drumming on the song is incredibly sloppy. Yes, Moon had a sloppy style, but it was innovative sloppy and Jones was sloppy sloppy.

I compare Moon to Joe Walsh or Jimi Hendrix (for guitars). All had sloppy styles, but the sloppy styles enhanced the music they played on.

Do you play drums? You admit yourself that Moon was not a great technical drummer. I agree wholeheartedly. So who gives a crap if Rolling Stone magazine thinks he's one of the top three drummers of all time? Innovative? Yes. A great showman? Yes. A great natural talent? Yes. Objectively one of the greatest drummers of all time? In my view, absolutely not.

I'm not sure how you think that Kenny Jones "imitates" Keith Moon style. I remember arguing with my drum teacher that Keith Moon is totally overrated. He was giving me the party line that Keith Moon is one of the all-time greats. I challenged him to give me an example of a song where Moon doesn't sound like garbage. His first answer? I'm Free off the Tommy soundtrack!! After I stopped laughing, I reminded him that Kenny Jones plays that song on the soundtrack and it absolutely blows away the Keith Moon version on the studio "Tommy".

I don't really have a strong feeling about the drums on you better you bet, but I will say that Kenny Jones is flat out nasty on Another Tricky Day and his performance there blows away anything Moon would be capable of on that track.

Don't get me wrong, I like Moon well enough. I think he is absolutely masterful on The Real Me, I Need You and Can't Explain, for example. But NFW that he is one of the greatest of all time (unless, as noted above, the greatest for you means greatest showman, natural talent, etc.)

 

[patsfaninpa]

Anyone remember this?

I think it was 04 Div. Playoff game in Jan. 05. Beginning of the game. Won't get fooled again being cranked up at the beginning of the game. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
Classic intro into that *****-kicking Pats put on the Colts.

 

[reflexblue]

I always run into nitwits tha say Keith Moon can't play or was garbage ......Rob029 is dead right. Keith Moon wasn't your average boring back beat drummer he was an innovator, he was a ****ing genious.

Here's a clip for those who have never seen, or forgotten how good he was. Seen if you can see whose playing the conga's......there isn't, Moon is playing it all.

YouTube - The Who - Magic Bus 1975 Cleveland

 

[realtime]

I always run into nitwits tha say Keith Moon can't play or was garbage ......Rob029 is dead right. Keith Moon wasn't your average boring back beat drummer he was an innovator, he was a ****ing genious.

Here's a clip for those who have never seen, or forgotten how good he was. Seen if you can see whose playing the conga's......there isn't, Moon is playing it all.

YouTube - The Who - Magic Bus 1975 Cleveland

LMAO. Platitudes about Moon's innovation and genius and then you post a video of him playing the "Bo Diddley Beat." Hilarious!

 

[reflexblue]

LMAO. Platitudes about Moon's innovation and genius and then you post a video of him playing the "Bo Diddley Beat." Hilarious!

Could you imitate it? Could you play it EXACTLY as he does? I mean ist easy to come on here and say "he's playing a bo diddly beat and impress people that don't know much about music. Plus i have to ask this why is there such dislike for this guy? This is typical of what i run across, someone starts a thread about the Who and someone jumps in without any proding to say Keith Moon is overrated, or he stinks. I've seen this over and over again i've never undesrstood it.

 

[realtime]

Could you imitate it? Could you play it EXACTLY as he does? I mean ist easy to come on here and say "he's playing a bo diddly beat and impress people that don't know much about music. Plus i have to ask this why is there such dislike for this guy? This is typical of what i run across, someone starts a thread about the Who and someone jumps in without any proding to say Keith Moon is overrated, or he stinks. I've seen this over and over again i've never undesrstood it.

Not sure why people criticize Moon without any prodding. As I said in my initial post, there is a lot to like about Moon, namely his showmanship, natural talent, unique style, etc. and his outstanding performances on certain songs (a few of which I mentioned).

I was, however, "prodded" if you will by the comment that Moon is one of the greatest drummers of all time and universally considered one of the top three ever along with Bonham (I am a HUGE fan) and Peart (who makes me violently ill, but that's well off topic). I STRONGLY disagree with the statement that he is one of the top three drummers of all time and that anyone who thinks that is using different criteria than I am (e.g. I give high marks for technical virtuosity, versatility, "feel", "tightness", and sound, categories in which Moon IMO is nowhere near the drumming elite).

 

[HarkDawg]

Briteny SpeaRS

 

[reflexblue]

Not sure why people criticize Moon without any prodding. As I said in my initial post, there is a lot to like about Moon, namely his showmanship, natural talent, unique style, etc. and his outstanding performances on certain songs (a few of which I mentioned).

I was, however, "prodded" if you will by the comment that Moon is one of the greatest drummers of all time and universally considered one of the top three ever along with Bonham (I am a HUGE fan) and Peart (who makes me violently ill, but that's well off topic). I STRONGLY disagree with the statement that he is one of the top three drummers of all time and that anyone who thinks that is using different criteria than I am (e.g. I give high marks for technical virtuosity, versatility, "feel", "tightness", and sound, categories in which Moon IMO is nowhere near the drumming elite).

O.K So i guess this means that you can't imitate Moon's style not many people can so thats nothing to be ashamed of.

I like Moon because of his flow, he just flows from one rythem ino the next. He weaves one rythem into the next, I don't know how you can't give him high marks for virtuosity feel and sound. In the last month or so i listen to the song "i can't explain" live from maybe '67 or '68 what stood out wasn't the singing bas playing or guitar what set it apart from othe songs of that era was Moons drumming it became evident to me that he was another instrament, that the band revolved around his playing. The reverse of everyother group.
It's more and more obvious that there are to schools of thought when it comes to criteria, and one of them is made up of the purists, who believe a drummer keeps the beat along with the bass player, which i find a little boring. Well to each his own, its subjective. BTW, IMO Rolling Stone is joke i don't pay any attention to what they list.

 

[letekro]

Moon was garbage?!? Almost universally considered one of the best rock drummers of all time garbage?!? You at most polls by publications that actually know music and Moon, John Bonham, and Neil Peart are your top three drummers. No Moon wasn't a great technical drummer, but he was still an amazing drummer with an unique style (at least at the time).

All four members of the Who were among the best at their perspective roles. That was why they were such an amazing band. Four immensley talented musicians.

All you have to do is listen to Kenny Jones trying to immitate Moon's style on Face Dances and It's Hard and you can hear how truly special Moon's drumming really was. "You Better, You Bet" is one of my favorite Who song, but the drumming on the song is incredibly sloppy. Yes, Moon had a sloppy style, but it was innovative sloppy and Jones was sloppy sloppy.

I compare Moon to Joe Walsh or Jimi Hendrix (for guitars). All had sloppy styles, but the sloppy styles enhanced the music they played on.

Moon is a too-busy, non-musical player renown more for his quirky personality than any lasting influence. In many ways, he is Ringo Starr, if Ringo actually practiced his chops. He is not to be confused with a musical visionary like Jimi Hendrix.

If you want to listen to a busy, MUSICAL rock drummer of that generation, I suggest Barriemore Barlow.

 

[realtime]

If you want to listen to a busy, MUSICAL rock drummer of that generation, I suggest Barriemore Barlow.

While you're on that topic, Mitch Mitchell as well.

 

[Rob0729]

Do you play drums? You admit yourself that Moon was not a great technical drummer. I agree wholeheartedly. So who gives a crap if Rolling Stone magazine thinks he's one of the top three drummers of all time? Innovative? Yes. A great showman? Yes. A great natural talent? Yes. Objectively one of the greatest drummers of all time? In my view, absolutely not.

I'm not sure how you think that Kenny Jones "imitates" Keith Moon style. I remember arguing with my drum teacher that Keith Moon is totally overrated. He was giving me the party line that Keith Moon is one of the all-time greats. I challenged him to give me an example of a song where Moon doesn't sound like garbage. His first answer? I'm Free off the Tommy soundtrack!! After I stopped laughing, I reminded him that Kenny Jones plays that song on the soundtrack and it absolutely blows away the Keith Moon version on the studio "Tommy".

I don't really have a strong feeling about the drums on you better you bet, but I will say that Kenny Jones is flat out nasty on Another Tricky Day and his performance there blows away anything Moon would be capable of on that track.

Don't get me wrong, I like Moon well enough. I think he is absolutely masterful on The Real Me, I Need You and Can't Explain, for example. But NFW that he is one of the greatest of all time (unless, as noted above, the greatest for you means greatest showman, natural talent, etc.)

By your definition Jimi Hendrix was not a great guitarist. He was not techincally a great guitarist. He was a great showman. He was a natural talent. He was innovative. From a technical standpoint he was crap because he didn't try to be a technical guitarist. What didn't make him a great technical guitarist made him one of the best guitarists of all time. Although he wasn't nearly as good as Hendrix, you can say the same thing about Joe Walsh.

Keith Moon's style does not fit into the classic definition on how a drummer should play, but there are plenty of drummers who are technically great drummers that lack any originality or innovation and therefore not very good.

There are a number of characteristics you can use to judge a musician and how good he/she is as a technical musician is only one of them. I look at the work they work on and how they influenced it. That is more important to me than any

Moon's style of drumming is as important to the sound of the Who as any other member's contribution in terms of instruments. His frantic style of drumming helped to form the sound of the Who. When I think of the Who, I think of raw energy and that is what Moon brought to the band. Who's Next is one of my favorite albums and I couldn't see tracks like "Baba O'Reilly" or "Won't get Fooled Again" being remotely as good in another drummer's hands. The vastly underrated "The Song is Over" has the perfect playout with a Moon drum solo.

When Moon died, the sound of the Who other than a handful of tracks lost a lot of the pure energy of the Who eventhough as a whole they were a more focused band and sound. Daltrey hated Kenney Jones because he felt his style was ruining the sound of the band. I kinda agree with him.

I don't judge musicians based on how well they play technically. I base them on the entire package. As I point out with Hendrix, technical playing is not a huge priority in my book. Moon's playing had personality and that personality influenced the music of the Who. He has also influenced many drummers that came after him and you can hear his DNA on many albums over the last three or four decades.

I read somewhere where someone said that Keith Moon is the Jackson Pollack of drumming because he was brilliant, but refuse to paint inside the lines. I think that perfectly describes him. I can't see the Who ever being what they were without Moon. But they are one of the few bands in rock history that you can say that about every member in it.

 

[Rob0729]

Moon is a too-busy, non-musical player renown more for his quirky personality than any lasting influence. In many ways, he is Ringo Starr, if Ringo actually practiced his chops. He is not to be confused with a musical visionary like Jimi Hendrix.

If you want to listen to a busy, MUSICAL rock drummer of that generation, I suggest Barriemore Barlow.

Although Moon the Loon's antics were legendary (My favorite story of him is when the Who was in a car leaving the hotel and he forces the car to turnaround because he forgot something. When he got back to the hotel, he went inside and came back 30 minutes later. Townsend asked him what he forgot. Moon replied, "To trash the hotel room".). But again, whether right or wrong, he is recognized as one of the top 3 drummers to ever play.

Moon has been called the Jimi Hendrix of drumming. So the comparison is fair.

As for Ringo, he does get a bum wrap. He wasn't a great drummer, but he was perfect for the Beatles. I wouldn't put him in the top 20 though.

The ironic thing is Ringo's son Zak will be playing the halftime show with the Who. He has been their drummer for years when they re-unite.

 

[Rob0729]

Not sure why people criticize Moon without any prodding. As I said in my initial post, there is a lot to like about Moon, namely his showmanship, natural talent, unique style, etc. and his outstanding performances on certain songs (a few of which I mentioned).

I was, however, "prodded" if you will by the comment that Moon is one of the greatest drummers of all time and universally considered one of the top three ever along with Bonham (I am a HUGE fan) and Peart (who makes me violently ill, but that's well off topic). I STRONGLY disagree with the statement that he is one of the top three drummers of all time and that anyone who thinks that is using different criteria than I am (e.g. I give high marks for technical virtuosity, versatility, "feel", "tightness", and sound, categories in which Moon IMO is nowhere near the drumming elite).

Well that explains it. Your criteria doesn't fit into the style of drumming Moon plays. To judge Moon on a lot of these things is like trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

Music is subjective and there are no right or wrong answers. Obviously we have different criteria on judging the quality of a musician. Obviously you are a trained drummer and use more pure techical criterias than I do.

I do think it is ironic that you hate Peart so much because I always thought he was all classically trained drummers God (no offense). All I ever hear about the guy is how his technique is perfect. I like Rush and think he is good, but I have always thought he was overrated.

I will agree with you about Bonzo. One of the best if not the best of all time.

 

[realtime]

By your definition Jimi Hendrix was not a great guitarist. He was not techincally a great guitarist. He was a great showman. He was a natural talent. He was innovative. From a technical standpoint he was crap because he didn't try to be a technical guitarist. What didn't make him a great technical guitarist made him one of the best guitarists of all time. Although he wasn't nearly as good as Hendrix, you can say the same thing about Joe Walsh.

Keith Moon's style does not fit into the classic definition on how a drummer should play, but there are plenty of drummers who are technically great drummers that lack any originality or innovation and therefore not very good.

There are a number of characteristics you can use to judge a musician and how good he/she is as a technical musician is only one of them. I look at the work they work on and how they influenced it. That is more important to me than any

Moon's style of drumming is as important to the sound of the Who as any other member's contribution in terms of instruments. His frantic style of drumming helped to form the sound of the Who. When I think of the Who, I think of raw energy and that is what Moon brought to the band. Who's Next is one of my favorite albums and I couldn't see tracks like "Baba O'Reilly" or "Won't get Fooled Again" being remotely as good in another drummer's hands. The vastly underrated "The Song is Over" has the perfect playout with a Moon drum solo.

When Moon died, the sound of the Who other than a handful of tracks lost a lot of the pure energy of the Who eventhough as a whole they were a more focused band and sound. Daltrey hated Kenney Jones because he felt his style was ruining the sound of the band. I kinda agree with him.

I don't judge musicians based on how well they play technically. I base them on the entire package. As I point out with Hendrix, technical playing is not a huge priority in my book. Moon's playing had personality and that personality influenced the music of the Who. He has also influenced many drummers that came after him and you can hear his DNA on many albums over the last three or four decades.

I read somewhere where someone said that Keith Moon is the Jackson Pollack of drumming because he was brilliant, but refuse to paint inside the lines. I think that perfectly describes him. I can't see the Who ever being what they were without Moon. But they are one of the few bands in rock history that you can say that about every member in it.

Hendrix is a great guitarist. He sounds pretty damn good to me technically, but I am no expert.

Moon is a great drummer. I never said he wasn't. Top 3 ever though? That's pushing it big time.

You are obviously a big fan of The Who and a big fan of Moon and that's great. I personally am a fan of The Who, but I am not a Moon fan at all. As I said, there's a lot to like about him, but there are probably at least 100 drummers I prefer to him and he's not even in the conversation for me as one of the greatest. I think there are songs that Moon does much better than Jones but I also think the reverse is true on other songs (I'm Free being the most dramatic example in my opinion).

And as for painters, I'm more of a Vermeer guy. I always hated Jackson Pollack. I guess I have similar taste in drummers.

 

[realtime]

Well that explains it. Your criteria doesn't fit into the style of drumming Moon plays. To judge Moon on a lot of these things is like trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

Music is subjective and there are no right or wrong answers. Obviously we have different criteria on judging the quality of a musician. Obviously you are a trained drummer and use more pure techical criterias than I do.

I do think it is ironic that you hate Peart so much because I always thought he was all classically trained drummers God (no offense). All I ever hear about the guy is how his technique is perfect. I live Rush and think he is good, but I have always thought he was overrated.

I will agree with you about Bonzo. One of the best if not the best of all time.

Agree with just about everything you say here. To sum up my feelings about Peart, I think he is musically soul-less. He plays like a machine and, while I think it is impressive that he is physically capable of doing that, he does zero for me musically.

 

[reflexblue]

Rob729 i read the sme thing about Daltry wanting to gt rid of Jones, that he was ruining the sound of the Who. Moon went back to the hotel room because he forgot to throw the T.V. threw the window into the pool.

I have also compared Moon to Hendrix its funny to read someone else thinks that.

 

[Rob0729]

Rob729 i read the sme thing about Daltry wanting to gt rid of Jones, that he was ruining the sound of the Who. Moon went back to the hotel room because he forgot to throw the T.V. threw the window into the pool.

I have also compared Moon to Hendrix its funny to read someone else thinks that.

You're right about the Moon story. It has been a while since I heard it. Forgot the details a bit.

Others have compared Moon to Hendrix though. Including on The Who's official website:

His playing ushered in an era wherein the drums became far more than simply a means of keeping the beat, and much of his recorded legacy from 1965–73 has a timeless quality that has never been repeated, let alone bettered. In this respect Keith Moon was to the drums what Jimi Hendrix was to the guitar – a complete original - and as such he was probably the most influential drummer the rock world has ever seen.

The Who Official Band Website - Roger Daltrey, Pete Townshend, John Entwistle, and Keith Moon | | History -Keith Moon

 

[Rob0729]

Agree with just about everything you say here. To sum up my feelings about Peart, I think he is musically soul-less. He plays like a machine and, while I think it is impressive that he is physically capable of doing that, he does zero for me musically.

I can see what you are saying about Peart. Rush in general had that feel to it. I like their music, but I don't think there was a whole lot of soul in it like their blues rock and hard rock contemporaries.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Okay ... I recommend they play "Eminence Front" while surrounded by fog
a major light show kicks in when the drums begin.

As the fog lifts ... the vocals begin.

YouTube - Eminence Front The Who Studio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u0GJdNu1Ds