OT: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

[sbpatfan]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

I would assume this includes us, and our FO wasn't interested.

Steelers "called everyone" regarding Santonio trade | ProFootballTalk.com

Something seems really odd about this whole situation. There must be something more past the four game suspension that the Steelers, and 25+ other teams didn't want to risk. If that article is correct in saying they talked to everyone, that is.

 

[Ruby2]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Something seems really odd about this whole situation. There must be something more past the four game suspension that the Steelers, and 25+ other teams didn't want to risk. If that article is correct in saying they talked to everyone, that is.

Probably the fact that one more screw up and Holmes will be out for a whole year, plus this is the last year on his contract.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

I agree. I think come training camp, the RB could be significantly different than it is now. I could see the Pats taking Ryan Matthews if he is available in the second. Pat Hill might be selling the Pats on the guy. He is the up the middle, decisive rusher the Pats tend to like.

I do agree Rob that Matthews does look like a solid prospect and could be the guy that takes the starting reigns out of Maroney's hands and be labeled as new starter ...hopefully

I do think though that to hope for a rookie RB and a rookie WR to both make big impacts in thier initial season is asking for a bit too much,I would settle for a RB to impact out of the two.

 

[Amnorix]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Although I am not going to toute the Pats' running game as anything special, the Jets' average last year doesn't mean much. Most of the carries were made by Thomas Jones who is no longer on the team. The Jets' running game is a bit of an unknown since no one knows if Greene can be nearly as effective as lead RB over a 16 game stretch as Jones was last year or if LT can be effective as a third down back. The Pats' running game definitely has its issues, but so COULD the Jets.

Given all factors that we are currently aware of, I would certainly bet money that the Jets will have a higher yards per carry than the Patriots. And that's even including that the Patriots opponents need to overplay the pass due to Brady/Moss/Welker(?).

Look, the Pats running game isn't terrible, but the Jets had a stellar rushing attack last year, even with a rookie QB handling signals. To say that it's two pushes and a slight advantage is ridiculous.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

The Steelers who know this kid inside out decided he was toxic going forward. The guy who prepped him for his draft interviews characterized him as a time bomb waiting to explode. He has multiple kids and multiple baby mama's to tangle with, and has multiple arrests including for possession and domestic violence and he still has a year to go on his rookie deal which will now yield just 12 more games AT BEST. Some scouts and FO personnel characterized him as Plaxico 2 coming out in that draft. Pittsburgh took a shot and likely feel they maxed out on his SB catch...which should have resulted in a penalty for which he was fined post game... He was twittering last weekend about getting up to toke. He's already sworn off a couple of times, it just doesn't mean anything... And because of the earlier arrests and charges in addition to failing the drug test, he is literally one false step away from out for a year. At this juncture it's not about wasting a 5th, it's about choosing to depend on someone who may well not be available to show up when the bell rings and whose presence on the roster may amount to little more than an embarassment and distraction. That's what teams aren't willing to risk.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Given all factors that we are currently aware of, I would certainly bet money that the Jets will have a higher yards per carry than the Patriots. And that's even including that the Patriots opponents need to overplay the pass due to Brady/Moss/Welker(?).

Look, the Pats running game isn't terrible, but the Jets had a stellar rushing attack last year, even with a rookie QB handling signals. To say that it's two pushes and a slight advantage is ridiculous.

I don't think we can assume anything at this point. The Jets gave up a 1,400 yard, 20 TD RB and replaced him with a guy on the decline. Now I won't argue that Jones would be able to repeat that performance this year at his age, but we have no clue what Greene can do as "the guy" over a complete season.

I say right now it is an incomplete. I think there are too many questions on the Jets right now to know how good their run offense will be.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I am too lazy to check this out but maybe someone here can....

In the last decade,how many players that the Steelers released,cut,traded,especially players that started for them,ended up having better careers elsewhere?...anyone with some list?

 

[Rob0729]

I am too lazy to check this out but maybe someone here can....

In the last decade,how many players that the Steelers released or cut,especially players that started for them,ended up having better careers elsewhere?...anyone with some list?

Not many. Plaxico is one. Not many more that I can think of. Granted most of their biggest named defections tend to be on defense and many of the guys who leave are system players.

 

[jays52]

They sure are doing a nice job of collecting tallent.

 

[A Dark Day in NE]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

They are sending them the 5th round pick they got from Philly as part of the Lito Sheppard deal.

A 5th rouder for 12 games of Holmes is a great deal, HOWEVER, he is already in the drug program, so one more and he is done for the year, plus yet another guy in the last year of his contract, and the Jets are back down to 5 draft picks (with only 2 in the top 100). They are building a team to win THIS YEAR, and that is it.

really? everytime i read this message board you guys somehow make dumber and dumber posts

Brady or Sanchez.. how many more years does each player have??

Moss and crippled welker or Braylon Holmes and Cotch? Jets WR core has a lot more GOOD years left... you can't really get a much better trio than that

Crumpler (LOL) or Keller- again is this really a question?

Fred Taylor and Morris or Greene, Leon, and LT you guys think you can compare with the Jets RB? hahahah that is funny.

NE O-line or Jets no comment again. Jets are going to be one of the best Olines for years to come.

Jets D
Secondary- Revis, Cromartie, Poole, Leonard, and Lowery ALL YOUNG and dirty.
Linebackers- Pace, Harris, Scott, Thomas, soon to be Taylor, and Gholston who is looking like a bust but still young.. All of them besides Taylor have many great years left in them.
DLine- SOLID. the Jets have a very solid D-line as you could tell when our best D player behind Revis went down, Jenkins, the Jets didn't miss a beat and still were #1 D.. Devito and Pouha are young and solid. Ellis is very underrated and has another 2 good years.
We have NO needs.. we are going to draft a Pass rusher or big DT and be set up for the future.

and keep dreaming about your AWFUL RB's and keep drafting awful

 

[A Dark Day in NE]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

I don't think we can assume anything at this point. The Jets gave up a 1,400 yard, 20 TD RB and replaced him with a guy on the decline. Now I won't argue that Jones would be able to repeat that performance this year at his age, but we have no clue what Greene can do as "the guy" over a complete season.

I say right now it is an incomplete. I think there are too many questions on the Jets right now to know how good their run offense will be.

the Jets have THREE runningbacks and Greene is the number one. why does everyone other than Jets fans think LT replaced Jones? you guys are idiots. It is going to be a THREE runningback system with Greene being the number ONE back, LT and Washington with every back splitting time to stay fresh

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Tennenbaum has suddenly become one of the best F.O. men in the business

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

the Jets have THREE runningbacks and Greene is the number one. why does everyone other than Jets fans think LT replaced Jones? you guys are idiots. It is going to be a THREE runningback system with Greene being the number ONE back, LT and Washington with every back splitting time to stay fresh

Actually Greene is the replacement. I have said that in other threads. But they lost Jones and added LT so they replaced the roster spot with LT.

Even if they rotate the guys, that doesn't mean they will get nearly the production they got with Jones last year. Staying fresh doesn't mean being as productive. That is still yet to be seen. They could be significantly better, but they could be significantly worse than the production last year.

I do think you Jets are still classy as usual. No wonder LT wanted to play for you guys.

 

[A Dark Day in NE]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Actually Greene is the replacement. I have said that in other threads. But they lost Jones and added LT so they replaced the roster spot with LT.

Even if they rotate the guys, that doesn't mean they will get nearly the production they got with Jones last year. Staying fresh doesn't mean being as productive. That is still yet to be seen. They could be significantly better, but they could be significantly worse than the production last year.

I do think you Jets are still classy as usual. No wonder LT wanted to play for you guys.

Rewatch all the Jets games and tell me what you think about Jones. You will be like wow how can he not break one tackle? all Jones is is a durable tough runningback who runs through HUGE holes and goes down at first contact. which is why he is gone. the Jets had the BEST run blocking O-Line last year. Now imagine Greene running through those holes. you got a little sample of it last year towards the end of the season into the playoffs. while Greene was lighting it up Jones averaged 2.2 yards a carry and got benched

 

[condon84]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

To all the "I wish Holmes was a Patriot crowd": With all of the talk about team chemistry being the downfall of the Pats last year it doesn't surprise me one bit that the Pats wouldn't be interested in Holmes.

The Jets are a good team, with a lot of talent, but talent doesn't always win games.

On the surface this looks like a good deal for the Jets. Maybe Holmes will pull an Irvin Fryar and get his head on straight, but I doubt it.

I still think the Jets strategy of trading up will hurt them in the long run, they are not developing good depth, once a starter start going down to injuries there lack of depth will hurt them. The Pats are deep at every position with the exception of WR, LB and TE. The Pats are VERY deep at OL, DL and DB

In terms of positional strength prior to the draft Jets versus Pats I think it looks like this:

QB: Advantage Pats by a wide margin
RB: Push
TE: Push
OL: Slight Advantage Jets because of Mangold
WR: Advantage Pats Holmes and Welker will probably get back around the same game, Moss, Welker, Edleman > than Edwards, Holmes, Cotchery
LB: Advantage Jets
DL: Advatange Pats
CB: Slight Advantage Jets because of Revis, not Cromartie but I think the Pats have better depth than the Jets but Revis is so good.
Safeties: Push with a slight lean toward the Pats assuming Merriweather continues to get better
Specialist: Push the Pats don't have a punter and the Jets don't have a kicker
Coach: Advantage Pats by a wide margin

While I agree on your point about chemistry, some of your analysis on both team's positions is lacking a bit of objectivity.

I would give the edge to the Jets in RB department. Shonn Greene is the type of runner we all wished Maroney would be: north/south runner, hits the hole hard, and runs hard.

I would give the edge to them at TE as well. But this is a function of the Pats possibly having the worst TE situation in the NFL.

CB isn't even close. The margin between Brady vs Sanchez is similar to the margin between the Revis/Cromartie vs Bodden/Butler or whoever we pair Bodden with. Revis, (along with Aso) is the best CB in the NFL and there's a big drop of talent after them. Cromartie, for all the crap people are giving him for that non-tackle in the playoff game, is possibly the best #2 CB in the league.

 

[Amnorix]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

I don't think we can assume anything at this point. The Jets gave up a 1,400 yard, 20 TD RB and replaced him with a guy on the decline. Now I won't argue that Jones would be able to repeat that performance this year at his age, but we have no clue what Greene can do as "the guy" over a complete season.

I say right now it is an incomplete. I think there are too many questions on the Jets right now to know how good their run offense will be.

Sure. Look, I'm not saying that their rushing attack is going to be a reprise of the 2002 Chiefs.

So, are you telling me "two pushes and a slight advantage" is correct. You agree with that? I don't see it. Not remotely.

EDIT to note that the offeason isn't exactly over. Maybe the Pats take a top RB with one of their first few picks who turns into the second coming of Curtis Martin, and an OLineman who is the second coming of Logan Mankins. Plenty of time left to see what happens. But right now, on April 12, I don't see two pushes and a slight advantage being a correct comparison.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Rewatch all the Jets games and tell me what you think about Jones. You will be like wow how can he not break one tackle? all Jones is is a durable tough runningback who runs through HUGE holes and goes down at first contact. which is why he is gone. the Jets had the BEST run blocking O-Line last year. Now imagine Greene running through those holes. you got a little sample of it last year towards the end of the season into the playoffs. while Greene was lighting it up Jones averaged 2.2 yards a carry and got benched

Gee! Another Jets fan I gotta school on Jones. Jones currently holds the longest streak in the NFL for seasons with 1,100 yards or more at 5. He has been running behind this Jets line for two years. Jones has always been a RB who goes down on contact, but is able to make the first defender miss him. Last year was no different. The holes may have been bigger at times, but his running style made him good too.

Funny, Jets fans would argue how great and underrated Jones was during the season last year and now that he is gone, he is just a product of his o-line.

 

[A Dark Day in NE]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Gee! Another Jets fan I gotta school on Jones. Jones currently holds the longest streak in the NFL for seasons with 1,100 yards or more at 5. He has been running behind this Jets line for two years. Jones has always been a RB who goes down on contact, but is able to make the first defender miss him. Last year was no different. The holes may have been bigger at times, but his running style made him good too.

Funny, Jets fans would argue how great and underrated Jones was during the season last year and now that he is gone, he is just a product of his o-line.

no you are wrong like usual. what happened to Jones in 07?

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Brady or Sanchez.. how many more years does each player have??

Moss and crippled welker or Braylon, Holmes and Cotch? Jets WR core has a lot more GOOD years left... you can't really get a much better trio than that

Crumpler (LOL) or Keller- again is this really a question?

Fred Taylor and Morris or Greene, Leon, and LT you guys think you can compare with the Jets RB? hahahah that is funny.

NE O-line or Jets no comment again. Jets are going to be one of the best Olines for years to come...Mangold

Jets D
Secondary- Revis, Cromartie, Poole, Leonard, and Lowery ALL YOUNG and dirty.
Linebackers- Pace, Harris, Scott, Thomas, soon to be Taylor, and Gholston who is looking like a bust but still young.. All of them besides Taylor have many great years left in them.
DLine- SOLID. the Jets have a very solid D-line as you could tell when our best D player behind Revis went down, Jenkins, the Jets didn't miss a beat and still were #1 D.. Devito and Pouha are young and solid. Ellis is very underrated and has another 2 good years.
We have NO needs.. we are going to draft a Pass rusher or big DT and be set up for the future.

and keep dreaming about your AWFUL RB's and keep drafting awful

Highlighted all of the players that will require some contract action after this season (assuming a CBA and a return to 4 years for FA).

 

[Bostonian1962]

One more failed test and Holmes is out for the year. I'm not saying that anybody should mail him a bag of sumpin' sumpin', but ...............................................