OT: Revis wants 20M per year...

[reflexblue]

I don't care if Revis is the best or not just as long as the Rats break the bank for him or he holds out preferably both.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Yes, you read that correctly. I thought that was pretty funny.

Sunday at the Post | National Football Post

That is Asamougha money for an Asamouhga type player. Seems natural. Fork it over Jests.

 

[20HindSight20]

Re: OT: Revis wants 20M per year....

Papelbon hasn't fallen off at all lol...

He had a slightly down year last year, but his numbers were still better than elite.

He is a top 3 closer in baseball..Top 2 actually and there is no legitimate argument against that.

Horrible example.

I'll try not to hi-jack the thread too much on this topic, but keep in mind that Pap's ERA in his own coming out party was 0.92 and since HAS "fallen off" due to the fact that that is an insane # to uphold and there were people who actually felt he would. So to say he hasn't fallen off when his ERA, BAA and WHIP have all worsened I'm not sure where you're really coming from with that statement, or how you could possibly substantiate it with facts. Unless the drop off just doesn't fit your own personal criteria of "fallen off" in which case that's your own personal opinion which is no better than the one I made. Horrible rebuttal.

His numbers being better than elite or him being an indisputable top 2 closer (which actually is disputable - Joe Nathan says hello) are both irrelevant points. People were prematurely putting him in Marino Rivera's class, and I'm not talking about who was better THAT SEASON, I'm talking about they were saying Papelbon would be better than Mo career wise. So if you want to take Pap's #'s to this point and be another kool-aid guzzler that believes he'll be better than the hands down best closer of all-time, then be my guest. Just know that your "points" really did nothing to debunk anything that I said.

 

[20HindSight20]

Re: OT: Revis wants 20M per year....

You continue to forget that I am not saying Revis will be an all time great (although barring injury there is no reason to not think so), just that he is the best right now.

If you wanted to proclaim Papelbon the best a few years ago, I dont think many would have had a problem with that.

Sorry, this was the quote that got me going on the subject.

"Revis is better than Bailey ever was, and is by far the best CB out there... "

Didn't come from you so shouldn't have been directed at you. My bad.

 

[20HindSight20]

Re: OT: Revis wants 20M per year....

Revis made the pro bowl in season two with no pass rush and that crappy bend don't break defense. Even after his rookie season people took notice of his ability. It's not like he had two crappy seasons and then turned into an elite cornerback.

He finally got a defensive coach that knew how to really use his skills. I don't really know what more you could ask a cornerback to do in his first three seasons in the NFL.

Right well nobody is writing him off as a flash in the pan. I just took exception to the fact that he was being compared by some to sure-fire HOF'ers after 1 elite season. Point taken that he has had a phenomenal start to his career but you need somewhat of a body of work before you're being compared to the all-time greats. I don't think even the worst of NE homers dared to compare Brady to Montana until after the 3rd championship.

 

[20HindSight20]

As others have said, though, I think if his high contract demands are true that it's a win-win situation for others in the division. Either the Jets handcuff themselves financially, or they lose arguably the best CB in football. Either one will do.

 

[Rob0729]

Wrong.

Asomugha plays one side of the field...He lines up against whatever WR lines up on that side...

He does NOT shadow number one WRs...They recently started talking about him starting to do that, but he has mainly been a one side of the field CB.

Revis is thrown on because he's more involved in the defense. Who gives a **** if Lance Long of the Chiefs lines up on the right and Asomugha is covering him? Why would Cassel throw his way anyway?

Huge difference in the two players. The players that Revis is ALWAYS covering have a much larger role to their respective teams than Asomugha does on some of the players he finds himself covering at times. Like when Malcolm Floyd lines up on the right against Asomugha with Jackson split wide to left against Johnson...Of course they aren't going to throw it to Floyd!

People need to educate themselves a little bit better on this situation. Don't take offense to that, it's just frustrating to see such ignorance on the matter.

At least you admit you need to be educated and it is frustrating that you are ignorant on the matter.

First, you do realize that, as I said, any primary WR will line up on QB's strong side a majority of the time. It is easier for a QB to throw to that part of the field so that is where they usually line up. It happens to be where Asomugha lines up. A primary WR may line up on the other side 10-20% at most for certain plays. Sometimes a WR may line up on the strong side and motion to the weak side, but since the Raiders play man-to-man, Asomugha would follow the guy in the situation. Tell me how I am wrong.

Second, do you have proof that Asomugha never shadows a primary WR no matter what side the WR lines up on. I don't know for sure either way, but I doubt that they will not put him on the best WR no matter where he is if he is facing a team with an elite primary WR and a crappy #2 WR.

Third, as for Revis always being on the best WR, it is proof you do not understand football. The Jets do play zone defense at times and in a zone defense, Revis' responsibility is a spot on the field not a particular player. That means if the primary WR runs a route over the middle while Revis is playing zone or lines up opposite to where Revis' assignment is, someone else is covering the primary WR.

Hey, I am glad to educate you on the game of football though. Don't get frustrated you will learn.

Seriously, Jets fan believe the Revis legend over the the reality. They believe Revis is a guy who covers the primary WR 100% of the time and never gets safety help over the top. Yes, Revis is arguably the best or one of the two best CBs in the league, but even Deion Sanders didn't cover the primary WR with no safety help all the time.

 

[Sivy]

What about Revis vs a young Randy Moss?

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

What about Revis vs a young Randy Moss?

Advantage Moss......against any CB I have ever seen play the game....speed/hands/size his first few seasons were unlike anything I have ever seen on the football field.

 

[Sivy]

Advantage Moss......against any CB I have ever seen play the game....speed/hands/size his first few seasons were unlike anything I have ever seen on the football field.

Moss was so good, that today, even though he is at the top of the league, people think he quits, or lost a step because he was THAT good in the years before..make sense? Revis wouldnt stand a chance.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: OT: Revis wants 20M per year....

What a minute, what are you responding to?

I thought it was obvious I was addressing you.

You said Revis faced the toughest competition anyone has in many years.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "many". But "years" by itself is a good statement.

Comparing who he faced to one other guy doesnt really address that.

You made an argument that he was not "by far" the best corner in the league. Looking at the rest, the one guy that I could come up with as being close to him was Nmandi. Since I brought that up, it only seemed fair to compare their two seasons.

Secondly, picking out games and adding the stats of the guy you chose as #1 isn't very scientific either.

I didn't choose these receivers as #1. These were teams' default receivers and Revis blanketed them around the field all day.

Was that the guy he covered? Did they play man or zone. What if all of Santonio Holmes catches were on the other side of the field against zone coverage? That negates your entire analysis. Didn't you post the number of catches that each allowed and Nmandi was less than Revis?
Are you seriously trying to get me to buy that Austin caught 7 for 145 in man coverage by Nmandi? That he covered Holmes man to man for 8 for 149 or Jackson 8 for 103 etc, etc.
If those are accurate them Nmandi basically sucks and shouldnt be in the equation. I dont think they threw as many passes to the man he covered all season as your are charging against him here.

Actually, this point helps my argument even more. I had assumed that, like Revis, Nmandi was assigned to the #1 WR on each team at all times but I was apparently wrong. For one, if he didn't blanket the team's big receiver, how can we be certain how much of an impact he had on the opposition's passing game? For another, if he didn't face the #1 WR then by default the amount of passes he faced from the opposition goes down whereas Revis, blanketing the WR1 all over the field, faced more passes and had more opportunities to shut his man down. By this logic, comparing Nmandi to Revis should automatically be stopped as there is either no way to do it or, if we are to do it, we should admit that Revis wins by default.

 

[eom]

At least you admit you need to be educated and it is frustrating that you are ignorant on the matter.

First, you do realize that, as I said, any primary WR will line up on QB's strong side a majority of the time. It is easier for a QB to throw to that part of the field so that is where they usually line up. It happens to be where Asomugha lines up. A primary WR may line up on the other side 10-20% at most for certain plays. Sometimes a WR may line up on the strong side and motion to the weak side, but since the Raiders play man-to-man, Asomugha would follow the guy in the situation. Tell me how I am wrong.

Second, do you have proof that Asomugha never shadows a primary WR no matter what side the WR lines up on. I don't know for sure either way, but I doubt that they will not put him on the best WR no matter where he is if he is facing a team with an elite primary WR and a crappy #2 WR.

dude, you have absolutely no idea wtf you're talking about.

don't take it personal.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: OT: Revis wants 20M per year....

I thought it was obvious I was addressing you.



I wouldn't go so far as to say "many". But "years" by itself is a good statement.



You made an argument that he was not "by far" the best corner in the league. Looking at the rest, the one guy that I could come up with as being close to him was Nmandi. Since I brought that up, it only seemed fair to compare their two seasons.



I didn't choose these receivers as #1. These were teams' default receivers and Revis blanketed them around the field all day.



Actually, this point helps my argument even more. I had assumed that, like Revis, Nmandi was assigned to the #1 WR on each team at all times but I was apparently wrong. For one, if he didn't blanket the team's big receiver, how can we be certain how much of an impact he had on the opposition's passing game? For another, if he didn't face the #1 WR then by default the amount of passes he faced from the opposition goes down whereas Revis, blanketing the WR1 all over the field, faced more passes and had more opportunities to shut his man down. By this logic, comparing Nmandi to Revis should automatically be stopped as there is either no way to do it or, if we are to do it, we should admit that Revis wins by default.

But the competition wasnt even NFL average, much less the toughest anyone faced in years. A lot of #1 corners faced tougher just last year.

I disagree with a lot of the other stuff, such as the perception that Revis played man to man every down and never had help, or the fact that Nmandi covered so well, he only had 28 passes come his way, because it is simply too complex a comparison to make in this kind of format, we'd need to sit down with coaches film and a bunch of beers to really get in at the level of detail this is heading in.

I just dont get why you think he faced tough competition, I see 10-11 games against weak passing offenses.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: OT: Revis wants 20M per year....

But the competition wasnt even NFL average, much less the toughest anyone faced in years. A lot of #1 corners faced tougher just last year.

I disagree with a lot of the other stuff, such as the perception that Revis played man to man every down and never had help, or the fact that Nmandi covered so well, he only had 28 passes come his way, because it is simply too complex a comparison to make in this kind of format, we'd need to sit down with coaches film and a bunch of beers to really get in at the level of detail this is heading in.

I just dont get why you think he faced tough competition, I see 10-11 games against weak passing offenses.

Our coach has a very intersting opinion when it comes to stats. Statistical analysis is important in a discussion like this, but it is hardly the know-all, end-all in any sport. Terrell Owens, Steve Smith, Marques Colston, and Roddy White are extremely talented receivers who have given opposing CB's fits in their time in the league. Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and Randy Moss fall into the same category as those four and had impressive seasons. Despite any down seasons, it's pretty widely recognized that Revis faced a tough line-up.

 

[kkpat]

Re: OT: Revis wants 20M per year....

Look at this excerpt from that article:



Isnt it amazing that teams who win SBs dont get this big head disease, yet the Jets get it because the Colts laid down and let them finish 1 game over .500 and back in to the playoffs.
Imagine what would happen if they ever were really successful?
I attribute this to Rex Ryan and his unending desire to tell the world how great they are in some way thinking peoples opinions of his team matter, thereby making all of his players feel overrated and like they achieved more than they did.

I don't know how people don't see all the negative fallout that will come from his immaturity in the press a mile away.

Right on the money.
Lets keep this a secret. The Fatso can talk trash all the time. It will hurt in ways they can't imagine.

I think his mama never taught him "Speech is silver. Silence is Golden"

 

[Ruby2]

Re: OT: Revis wants 20M per year....

You must have been watching a different Darrell Revis than I. Anyway, we'll just agree to disagree on this one.

Watched every second of every game. Revis missed at most 5 tackles all year. And I dont even think it was that. I think you might be getting confused with Kerry Rhodes?

 

[Joker]

how many times have the Ra...er...uh..Jets missed the playoffs since 1969?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

It's funny how long this thread has gone on for.

 

[eom]

don't know if it helps you guys any, and I don't know how much help these guys had, but I believe revis covered andre johnson about 30 passing snaps last year resulting in 1 catch on 2 throws for 7 yds.
asomugha probably covered him about half the snaps ---- he wasn't thrown at.

I'd say they're both pretty good and leave it at that.

ps

profootballfocus has revis down for 5 missed tackles.

 

[jays52]

I think that we need to look a little beyond the coverage discussion. We need to look at overall scheme. The Rex Ryan D is based on blitzing. When you send an extra rusher, you lose your personel advantage. Generally speaking, this means you have to play man. Further, pressure is used in conjunction with press. So, let's assume Revis played man in the majority of the snaps.

Now, let's consider overall scheme. Against the Jets, the ball must come out quickly. The ball must also come towards the areas that are vacated by the blitzing players. Logically, this is between the hashes. So we now have it narrowed down on the gameplay front. When one plays the Jets, the focus of the passing game is on the hots to the vacated areas. Further, the Y should have a physical mismatch on whatever player he is manned up on. Outside receivers aren't quick hits unless we're talking hitches or bubble screens. Both of which are unproductive against press. Basically, the flanker and split end are going to be significantly less crucial in advancing the ball against the Jets than they normally would be. This, obviously will give Revis a statistical advantage over every other corner. So the one thing we have left is the eye test.

The eye test still tells me that Revis is as good as anyone I have ever seen at his position, regardless of scheme. While he did have schematic help, he still has had two extremely good years at the position. Given his age, ability, and current market he should become the highest compensated corner in history of the game.