OT: Jets have a 1 year window

[Ring 6]

Its true that a good portion of the O line and D line are in their twillight, I personally belive the Jets are going heavy on D line in the draft, but the O line is a concern. However, the Jets solved those problems with free agents in the first place and hopefully can do it again.

What matters to me is most of the teams talent is in its young players. Harris, Revis, Mangold, Brick, Keller, Sanchez, Greene, Cotch, Braylon, Cromartie and Holmes are all on the right side of 30 and while many will need to be resigned there is hope of retaining most if not all.

Also, I wouldn't compare pennington to Sanchez because Sanchez can actually stretch the field, not to mention with the defense Rex runs you don't need a superstar to win a title.

Pennington as a Jet was ten times better than Sanchez has been so far.
Please don't tell me you are giving Ryan credit for 'running' the 2000 Raven defense that he didn't run, or conclude that one SB in a decade is proof of not needing a good QB.

 

[K-Ro 25]

The managing of the cap has nothing to do with why we have had 4 coaches in a decade. Also someone fill me into how we have forthcoming cap hell? There's a difference between needing to resign guys and having bad contracts which u need to get rid of. scott, sanchez, pace and maybe jenkins are the only guys I can think of with subdtantial dollars on the books for extended yrs. Once again this thread title is just blind homerism against the jetd

The cap matters a ton (well it did before this year)
The fact that the Colts do a good job managing the cap isnt evidence the cap is irrelevant.
In fact, there is a significant divide between teams who have managed the cap well, and maintained consistent success (Pats, Colts, Pitt, Philly, Giants to an extent,Titans to an extent) and then most other teams who have been hamstrung by the way they handle the cap, either staying down, or not being able to stay consistent.
The Jets have mismanaged the cap which is why they have not been consistent and are on their 4th coach in the time BB has been here.

 

[Metaphors]

Its true that a good portion of the O line and D line are in their twillight, I personally belive the Jets are going heavy on D line in the draft, but the O line is a concern. However, the Jets solved those problems with free agents in the first place and hopefully can do it again.

So you are saying that the Jets have a top team this year and will stay on top if they draft top contributors and sign FAs who perform at the same level as the players they lose. Hard to argue with that. Sounds like a plan.

What matters to me is most of the teams talent is in its young players. Harris, Revis, Mangold, Brick, Keller, Sanchez, Greene, Cotch, Braylon, Cromartie and Holmes are all on the right side of 30 and while many will need to be resigned there is hope of retaining most if not all.

Do a little scouting for us. Rank the players on your list in the following categories (or make your own)...Elite, Solid, JAG, Unproven, Overrated. Let me give you hint to save your credibility. Better have at least 2 in the unproven and no more than 2 in the elite.

Also, I wouldn't compare pennington to Sanchez because Sanchez can actually stretch the field, not to mention with the defense Rex runs you don't need a superstar to win a title.

Gotta disagree with you on both counts. Just about every Sanchez throw is on video somewhere. Try to find an example where Sanchez "stretches the field". Can he throw an arching pass 40 yards downfield? Sure, but so can Pennington and every other QB in the league. The only patterns I can recall seeing a ball with some zip is on crossing patterns in front of coverage.

As for not needing a superstar to win, that may be true. But you better have someone who can win a game when needed. Since the salary cap went into effect, here are the guys: Aikman, Young, Favre, Elway, Warner, Dilfer, Brady, Brad Johnson, Roethlisberger, Goober, Goober Jr, Brees. Dilfer is the only guy on this list without a plus arm and he rode the freakin' 2000 Ravens squad to a title. The Jets D isn't the 2000 Ravens. If you think Sanchez will develop into a QB that belongs on this list, then the Jets should be in good shape.

 

[K-Ro 25]

Hey metaphors, revis, mangold, brick and harris are all elite top 5-10 players @ there position. I anxiously await an uninfomed pats fan calling brick a bust

 

[Ring 6]

The managing of the cap has nothing to do with why we have had 4 coaches in a decade. Also someone fill me into how we have forthcoming cap hell? There's a difference between needing to resign guys and having bad contracts which u need to get rid of. scott, sanchez, pace and maybe jenkins are the only guys I can think of with subdtantial dollars on the books for extended yrs. Once again this thread title is just blind homerism against the jetd

The lack of sustained success is why you are on your 4th coach, and managing the cap is part of the reason.
The thread was based upon the fact that there are a lot of contracts expiring and all will not be able to be afforded.
If I go out and trade for a bunch of guys in the last year of their rookie contracts then I am going to have cap problems in keeping that team together. That was the point.

 

[Ring 6]

Hey metaphors, revis, mangold, brick and harris are all elite top 5-10 players @ there position. I anxiously await an uninfomed pats fan calling brick a bust

He certainly isnt a top 5 LT.

 

[Rexorcism]

Gotta disagree with you on both counts. Just about every Sanchez throw is on video somewhere. Try to find an example where Sanchez "stretches the field". Can he throw an arching pass 40 yards downfield? Sure, but so can Pennington and every other QB in the league. The only patterns I can recall seeing a ball with some zip is on crossing patterns in front of coverage.

.

Only going to fight you on this point since the others we just aren't going to see eye to eye on no matter what.

I have watched years of Chad and a full season of Mark and I can without a doubt say that he brings a new dynamic to the team with a much faster and overall better thrown ball.

Sure Chad could throw a 40 yard floater that the reciever would have to stop and slow down for and almost get killed. Mark actually has enough zip to hit a receiver in stride.

Look no further than the Braylon TD in the AFC champ game. Mark saw that Braylon was breaking away and was able to hit in stride. That same ball from Chad would require Braylon to stop and fight the DB for.

EDIT: Ok I'll bite. So you are saying Harris, Revis, Mangold, and Holmes aren't elite? Please tell me your definition of elite.

 

[Rexorcism]

Pennington as a Jet was ten times better than Sanchez has been so far.
Please don't tell me you are giving Ryan credit for 'running' the 2000 Raven defense that he didn't run, or conclude that one SB in a decade is proof of not needing a good QB.

Considering Mark in his first year as a Jet already has the same amount of playoff wins I think Chad is not "ten times better".

This team was able to win in spite of Marks early growing pains and even won a game with the godawful Kellen Clemens at the helm. I'm not giving Ryan credit but he did get first hand experience as to how it was done. Not to mention the year before with Baltimore and Flacco.

One SB win with a mediorce QB is proof that you only need a mediocre QB. Are you saying it's not?

 

[K-Ro 25]

What does the cap have to do with a coach who leaves for college fb after 1 yr? What did the cap have to do with the firing of a brain dead herm or firing of mangini after the collapse? The answer is it had nothing to do with it. Sometimes coaches just get fired bc there inept. You don't have to have cap problems if u have a lot of 1 yr deals. You let guys walk n resign guys you deem as the core. The pats did the same thing as described this decade, you have cap hell if u have a ton of guaranteed deals which we don't.

The lack of sustained success is why you are on your 4th coach, and managing the cap is part of the reason.
The thread was based upon the fact that there are a lot of contracts expiring and all will not be able to be afforded.
If I go out and trade for a bunch of guys in the last year of their rookie contracts then I am going to have cap problems in keeping that team together. That was the point.

 

[Metaphors]

scott, sanchez, pace and maybe jenkins are the only guys I can think of with subdtantial dollars on the books for extended yrs.

Add D'Brick, Faneca, Woody and Moore to your list for 2011. Include what it will cost to re-sign Mangold and keeping an intact OL will cost over $35M. Either you are looking at replacements in 2011 or they better be the greatest OL of all time.

 

[K-Ro 25]

Average run block, easily top 5 in pass protection. Sounds elite to me

He certainly isnt a top 5 LT.

 

[JackBauer]

D'Brick is not elite. I believe "average" or "slightly above average" are more apt descriptors.

 

[Metaphors]

EDIT: Ok I'll bite. So you are saying Harris, Revis, Mangold, and Holmes aren't elite? Please tell me your definition of elite.

Revis is elite. I'll give you Mangold as well, though I evaluate him more positively than some.

Defining elite is easy and is totally flexible. Put any objective measure on a player (not just stats) and then apply the same measure against the other players in the league at that position. Rank 'em all and see where your player lands. If your player is in the top 5 or so, they are elite.

Now if you want Harris and Holmes to be considered elite, give me any measure that puts them there. I got nothing.

 

[Deus Irae]

Hey metaphors, revis, mangold, brick and harris are all elite top 5-10 players @ there position. I anxiously await an uninfomed pats fan calling brick a bust

We've been over the D'Bustashaw thing already. In his own division, he's no better than the #3 left tackle, and Vollmer may be better than him this year, even though he'll probably be playing on the right side because of Light. D'Bustashaw may not be another Gholston, but that's not exactly saying much.

 

[Rexorcism]

Revis is elite. I'll give you Mangold as well, though I evaluate him more positively than some.

Defining elite is easy and is totally flexible. Put any objective measure on a player (not just stats) and then apply the same measure against the other players in the league at that position. Rank 'em all and see where your player lands. If your player is in the top 5 or so, they are elite.

Now if you want Harris and Holmes to be considered elite, give me any measure that puts them there. I got nothing.

How is Harris not? 127 tackles, 5.5 sacks, 2 int, 5 passes defended and only 26. If he isn't top 5 at his position hes at least top 10. Holmes is a superbowl MVP coming off a 1200 yard season and had one of the best first down percentages in the league last year, is a great deep threat (very good YPC) and is dangerous in the open field. Is a much better deep threat than Marshall whom everyone is so high on. I would put him with the top 10 wrs in the league, but not everyone agrees.

 

[Deus Irae]

How is Harris not? 127 tackles, 5.5 sacks, 2 int, 5 passes defended and only 26. If he isn't top 5 at his position hes at least top 10. Holmes is a superbowl MVP coming off a 1200 yard season and had one of the best first down percentages in the league last year, is a great deep threat (very good YPC) and is dangerous in the open field. Is a much better deep threat than Marshall whom everyone is so high on. I would put him with the top 10 wrs in the league, but not everyone agrees.

Moss
Marshall
C. Johnson
A. Johnson
Fitzgerald
Wayne
Welker
White
Colston
D. Jackson
V. Jackson
S. Smith
Jennings

How's that for a start? Holmes is good, but let's keep this reasonable.

As for Harris.... please stop with that.

 

[Rexorcism]

Moss
Marshall
C. Johnson
A. Johnson
Fitzgerald
Wayne
Welker
White
Colston
D. Jackson
V. Jackson
S. Smith
Jennings

How's that for a start? Holmes is good, but let's keep this reasonable.

As for Harris.... please stop with that.

Holmes was 7th in the league in yards with a first down pecentage only rivaling V Jax and was tied for 2nd best in plays of over 20 yards or more. Holmes had more yards than most people on that list so I think its more than reasonable.

As for Harris, please tell me how he isn't one of the top ILB in the game today and I will gladly stop.

 

[Deus Irae]

Holmes was 7th in the league in yards with a first down pecentage only rivaling V Jax and was tied for 2nd best in plays of over 20 yards or more. Holmes had more yards than most people on that list so I think its more than reasonable.

Such stats would tell you that Holmes and V Jax were the two best receivers in the game. That should tell you that something's wrong with those stats.

Every player I listed is a better receiver than Holmes, and I could have put more on the list. Holmes is a top 20 kind of receiver, not a top 10 type.

As for Harris, please tell me how he isn't one of the top ILB in the game today and I will gladly stop.[/QUOTE]

A league with a lot of weak ILB play makes Harris look far better than he is. He's an alright player, but nothing more than that. The same Jets fans who want to ballwash him today were ready to ditch him a year ago.

 

[Rexorcism]

Such stats would tell you that Holmes and V Jax were the two best receivers in the game. That should tell you that something's wrong with those stats.

Every player I listed is a better receiver than Holmes, and I could have put more on the list. Holmes is a top 20 kind of receiver, not a top 10 type.

As for Harris, please tell me how he isn't one of the top ILB in the game today and I will gladly stop.

A league with a lot of weak ILB play makes Harris look far better than he is. He's an alright player, but nothing more than that. The same Jets fans who want to ballwash him today were ready to ditch him a year ago.[/QUOTE]


So what you are saying is I shouldn't rate recievers according to stats and I should just trust your well trained football eye? Yeah ok...

I don't know what kind of fools would ever want Harris gone he has been a beast since day 1 of his NFL career.

Oh and by the way if the rest of the league has weak ILB play than that still makes Harris elite no?

Its been fun but when you support your arguments with your opinion and act like its concrete evidence then there is really no use in wasting my time.

 

[jsull87]

Re: Jets have a 1 year window (oops, didn't mean to post in draft forum)

Haha, love it!

... Can you do one about how the Colts' window is closing, too?

when peyton manning retires... there's your colts window... just like the pats.