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OT: Colts injuries (Sanders, Hayden, Jackson, Gonzalez, Hagler) - merged


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I agree with the rest of your post, however, Colts have the #1 scoring defense in the league.

They've allowed the least points per game.

They have played a weak schedule, relatively, but I'm just pointing out, this isn't the Colts defense of old where it's bend and alot of times break.

Pats can put up points against them, if they are clicking though, but the Colts defense is very solid this year to say the least.

First, the Colts deserve all the credit in the world for averaging 13+ PPG so far through 8 games, especially with injuries. Please do not take what follows as taking anything away from that accomplishment.

Second, both the Pats and the Colts have not played particularly difficult offensive teams so far. Consider each team. First, the Colts:

1 - Indy 14-12 over Jacksonville, #22 averaging 19.6 PPG. Indy held Jax to -7.6 PPG below their average.

2 - Indy 27-23 over Miami, #13 averaging 24.1 PPG. Miami -1.1 under their average, Indy -8.7 PPG cumulatively.

3 - Indy 31, Arizona 10. Arizona is currently #12 at 24.8 PPG, so they were -14.8 PPG under their average. Indy -23.5 PPG cumulatively over 3 games.

4 - Indy 34, Seattle 17. Seattle averages 20.9 PPG (#20 in scoring), so they were -3.9 PPG under their average. Indy -27.4 PPG through 4 games.

5 - Indy 31, Tennessee 9. Tennessee is currently #23 in scoring at 18.5 PPG, so Indy held the Titans to -9.5 PPG below their average. Indy -36.9 through 5 games.

6 - Indy 42, St. Louis 6. St. Louis currently ranks #32 at 9.6 PPG, so Indy held the Rams to -3.6 below their average. Indy -40.5 through 6 games.

7 - Indy 18, SF 14. The 49ers rank #19 averaging 21.8 PPG, so Indy held the 9ers to -7.8 below their average. Indy -48.3 through 7 games.

8 - Indy 20, Houston 17. Houston ranks #14 at 23.9 PPG, so Indy held the Texans to -6.9 PPG below their average. Indy at -55.2 through 8 games.

So through 8 games Indy has held teams to -55.2 points below their average for the season, or just under 7 PPG below their season average. Indy hasn't allowed any opponent to score above it's season average. That's clearly impressive. But Indy's opponents currently rank #12 (Arizona), 13 (Miami), 14 (Houston), 19 (SF), 20 (Seattle), 22 Jacksonville, 23 (Tennessee) and 32 (St. Louis) in scoring. That averages out to #19 overall in scoring. Obviously Indy's defense has helped keep those teams low in scoring, but one game doesn't do it by itself. Those are just not very good offensive teams.

Through 8 games the Pats haven't played a particularly challenging set of offenses, either:

1 - NE 25, Buffalo 24 (7 of those points coming on a defensive TD). The Bills are #28 in PPG 15.4, so they were +8.6 against the Pats.

2 - Jets 16, NE 9. The Jets are #18 at 22.1 PPG, so they were -4.1 PPG below their average. Through 2 games NE +4.5.

3 - NE 26, Atlanta 10. The Falcons are currently #11 at 25.2 PPG, so the Pats held the Falcons to -15.2 PPG below their average. NE -10.8 through 3 games.

4 - NE 27, Baltimore 21 (7 points coming on a defensive TD). The Ravens are currently #9 at 25.8 PPG, so the were -4.8 PPG below their average. Pats -15.6 through 4 games.

5 - Denver 20, NE 17 (OT). Denver is currently #21 at 20 PPG, so the Pats held the Broncos to their average. -15.6 through 5 games.

6 - NE 59, Tennessee 0. Tennessee is #23 at 18.5 PPG, so the Pats held the Titans to -18.5 below their average. NE -34.1 through 6 games.

7 - NE 35, TB 7. TB currently ranks -25 at 16.8 PPG, so the Pats held them to -9.8 below their average. NE -43.9 through 7 games.

8 - NE 27, Miami 17. Miami currently averages 24.1 PPG (#13), so the Pats held the Phins to -7.1 below their average. NE -51 through 8 games.

So through 8 games the Pats have held their opponents to -51 PPG below their average, or -6.4 PPG below their average. The only game in which they allowed an opponent to score above their average was the Buffalo game, which was the first game of the season and included a defensive TD. Cummulatively NE has faced the #9 (Baltimore), #11 (Atlanta), #13 (Miami), #18 (Jets), #21 (Broncos), 23 (Tennessee), 25 (Tampa Bay) and 28 (Buffalo) offense, for an average offensive position of #18.

Against the only common 2 opponents so far, NE has held both to less PPG than Indy: Tennessee (0 vs. 9) and Miami (17 vs. 23).

Clearly both defenses are playing well, and have something to do with their opponents' lack of success. But clearly both defenses have benefitted from not playing a lot of offensive juggernauts so far this season.

The second half of the season NE has to play #1 NO (37.9 PPG), #5 Indy (27.1 PPG), and #14 Houston (23.9 PPG), along with #13 Miami, #18 Jets, #22 Jax, #23 Carolina, and #28 Buffalo. Indy has to play #3 NE (28.1 PPG), #9 Baltimore (25.8 PPG), #14 Houston (23.9 PPG) in addition to #18 Jets, #21 Denver, #22 Jacksonville, #23 Tennessee and #28 Buffalo. So each team has 3 major offensive challenges ahead of it.

It will be interesting to see how both defenses do in their remaining challenges. I expect both to end up in the top 10 (possibly top 5) statistically by the end of the season, but the real question is how each defense does when faced with a top notch offense. So far Indy has passed it's toughest test against Houston and NE against Baltimore and Atlanta, but the toughest is to come for both teams.
 
Great work, Mayo. Rep to you.... if we had it.
 
First, the Colts deserve all the credit in the world for averaging 13+ PPG so far through 8 games, especially with injuries. Please do not take what follows as taking anything away from that accomplishment.

Second, both the Pats and the Colts have not played particularly difficult offensive teams so far. Consider each team. First, the Colts:

1 - Indy 14-12 over Jacksonville, #22 averaging 19.6 PPG. Indy held Jax to -7.6 PPG below their average.

2 - Indy 27-23 over Miami, #13 averaging 24.1 PPG. Miami -1.1 under their average, Indy -8.7 PPG cumulatively.

3 - Indy 31, Arizona 10. Arizona is currently #12 at 24.8 PPG, so they were -14.8 PPG under their average. Indy -23.5 PPG cumulatively over 3 games.

4 - Indy 34, Seattle 17. Seattle averages 20.9 PPG (#20 in scoring), so they were -3.9 PPG under their average. Indy -27.4 PPG through 4 games.

5 - Indy 31, Tennessee 9. Tennessee is currently #23 in scoring at 18.5 PPG, so Indy held the Titans to -9.5 PPG below their average. Indy -36.9 through 5 games.

6 - Indy 42, St. Louis 6. St. Louis currently ranks #32 at 9.6 PPG, so Indy held the Rams to -3.6 below their average. Indy -40.5 through 6 games.

7 - Indy 18, SF 14. The 49ers rank #19 averaging 21.8 PPG, so Indy held the 9ers to -7.8 below their average. Indy -48.3 through 7 games.

8 - Indy 20, Houston 17. Houston ranks #14 at 23.9 PPG, so Indy held the Texans to -6.9 PPG below their average. Indy at -55.2 through 8 games.

So through 8 games Indy has held teams to -55.2 points below their average for the season, or just under 7 PPG below their season average. Indy hasn't allowed any opponent to score above it's season average. That's clearly impressive. But Indy's opponents currently rank #12 (Arizona), 13 (Miami), 14 (Houston), 19 (SF), 20 (Seattle), 22 Jacksonville, 23 (Tennessee) and 32 (St. Louis) in scoring. That averages out to #19 overall in scoring. Obviously Indy's defense has helped keep those teams low in scoring, but one game doesn't do it by itself. Those are just not very good offensive teams.

Through 8 games the Pats haven't played a particularly challenging set of offenses, either:

1 - NE 25, Buffalo 24 (7 of those points coming on a defensive TD). The Bills are #28 in PPG 15.4, so they were +8.6 against the Pats.

2 - Jets 16, NE 9. The Jets are #18 at 22.1 PPG, so they were -4.1 PPG below their average. Through 2 games NE +4.5.

3 - NE 26, Atlanta 10. The Falcons are currently #11 at 25.2 PPG, so the Pats held the Falcons to -15.2 PPG below their average. NE -10.8 through 3 games.

4 - NE 27, Baltimore 21 (7 points coming on a defensive TD). The Ravens are currently #9 at 25.8 PPG, so the were -4.8 PPG below their average. Pats -15.6 through 4 games.

5 - Denver 20, NE 17 (OT). Denver is currently #21 at 20 PPG, so the Pats held the Broncos to their average. -15.6 through 5 games.

6 - NE 59, Tennessee 0. Tennessee is #23 at 18.5 PPG, so the Pats held the Titans to -18.5 below their average. NE -34.1 through 6 games.

7 - NE 35, TB 7. TB currently ranks -25 at 16.8 PPG, so the Pats held them to -9.8 below their average. NE -43.9 through 7 games.

8 - NE 27, Miami 17. Miami currently averages 24.1 PPG (#13), so the Pats held the Phins to -7.1 below their average. NE -51 through 8 games.

So through 8 games the Pats have held their opponents to -51 PPG below their average, or -6.4 PPG below their average. The only game in which they allowed an opponent to score above their average was the Buffalo game, which was the first game of the season and included a defensive TD. Cummulatively NE has faced the #9 (Baltimore), #11 (Atlanta), #13 (Miami), #18 (Jets), #21 (Broncos), 23 (Tennessee), 25 (Tampa Bay) and 28 (Buffalo) offense, for an average offensive position of #18.

Against the only common 2 opponents so far, NE has held both to less PPG than Indy: Tennessee (0 vs. 9) and Miami (17 vs. 23).

Clearly both defenses are playing well, and have something to do with their opponents' lack of success. But clearly both defenses have benefitted from not playing a lot of offensive juggernauts so far this season.

The second half of the season NE has to play #1 NO (37.9 PPG), #5 Indy (27.1 PPG), and #14 Houston (23.9 PPG), along with #13 Miami, #18 Jets, #22 Jax, #23 Carolina, and #28 Buffalo. Indy has to play #3 NE (28.1 PPG), #9 Baltimore (25.8 PPG), #14 Houston (23.9 PPG) in addition to #18 Jets, #21 Denver, #22 Jacksonville, #23 Tennessee and #28 Buffalo. So each team has 3 major offensive challenges ahead of it.

It will be interesting to see how both defenses do in their remaining challenges. I expect both to end up in the top 10 (possibly top 5) statistically by the end of the season, but the real question is how each defense does when faced with a top notch offense. So far Indy has passed it's toughest test against Houston and NE against Baltimore and Atlanta, but the toughest is to come for both teams.

Too bad there isn't just a "Thanks" button. Nice work! Thanks.
 
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good work..... w/ PPG.

however averages are not reliable.

Statical miscues happen frequently

Despite PPG..... INDY is out matched by a more COMPLETE Patriot team. Both have HIGH POWERED OFFENSES.

Judging an opponent by PPG should not be the only criteria in this evaluation of yours.

New England has played better opponents. Your argument should not be about PPG because that is a misleading figure. The PATS D dominates INDYS..... and INDY's D is banged up in the SECONDARY.

It is 1 game... anything can happen. If the PATS show up to play well on BOTH sides of the football..... they WIN
 
good work..... w/ PPG.

however averages are not reliable.

Statical miscues happen frequently

Despite PPG..... INDY is out matched by a more COMPLETE Patriot team. Both have HIGH POWERED OFFENSES.

Judging an opponent by PPG should not be the only criteria in this evaluation of yours.

New England has played better opponents. Your argument should not be about PPG because that is a misleading figure. The PATS D dominates INDYS..... and INDY's D is banged up in the SECONDARY.

It is 1 game... anything can happen. If the PATS show up to play well on BOTH sides of the football..... they WIN

The Pats are more balanced and complete IMHO, but Indy is more consistent right now.

If we bring our A game (offense and defense) or something very close to it I think we win. But if we don't, I think Indy wins.
 
This thread is funny, the lack of Colts' knowledge in there. You would think Marlin Jackson was a probowler the way that people talked. But he was never a good cover guy, and wasn't as good of a fit in the new scheme bc of it. Powers has already made more plays in man coverage in half a season than Jackson did in his career here. Powers is a good player.

Hayden, unlike Jackson, actually could cover. But he's basically been hurt for a full year now, always missing games.

Same for Bob, hasn't been himself for two years. Time for him to go. Bullitt is obviously a starting caliber safety in his place.

Gonzo is a loss. He is clearly the 2nd best WR on our team. Garcon and Collie are nothing special.

Hagler is a loss as well. He is playing well, and Wheeler is unproven. At least he only played in base situations though.



You sir must not be watching the Same Austin Collie I am.
 
Great post Mayo, that was interesting to read, and kind of a shock that both teams are so close against the same type of averages.

I also think you hit the nail on the head, the Colts have been a more consistent team.

If the Pats show up as a complete team I think they win, however I think the Colts have proven they can win even if their A game doesn't show up.
 
Great post Mayo, that was interesting to read, and kind of a shock that both teams are so close against the same type of averages.

I also think you hit the nail on the head, the Colts have been a more consistent team.

If the Pats show up as a complete team I think they win, however I think the Colts have proven they can win even if their A game doesn't show up.



the game is going to come down to your WEAKENED SECONDARY...... TFB is going to have a QB Clinic against Indy.... WHO is going to cover Mossman and WhiteWess? Your Pass rush is no where near as potent as the Giants of '07. Continuous pressure on Brady is unlikely.


i'm done for now.
 
the game is going to come down to your WEAKENED SECONDARY...... TFB is going to have a QB Clinic against Indy.... WHO is going to cover Mossman and WhiteWess? Your Pass rush is no where near as potent as the Giants of '07. Continuous pressure on Brady is unlikely.

Brady had a decent game yesterday, but he didn't exactly put on a clinic. Same DB situation next weekend. I'm not as confident as you, though I do think the Pats have a better chance of beating Seyton than any team that's played there so far.
 
No injury excuses colts fans. We are hella banged up too.
 
Great post Mayo, that was interesting to read, and kind of a shock that both teams are so close against the same type of averages.

I also think you hit the nail on the head, the Colts have been a more consistent team.

If the Pats show up as a complete team I think they win, however I think the Colts have proven they can win even if their A game doesn't show up.

It was interesting to look at the data without trying to bring a bias.

If it's a really close game that comes down to the wire I think the Colts have an edge. Home field, likely benefit of the calls (no disrespect, we've gotten the benefit of the calls at home too), and right now I think the Colts are just the best in the NFL at pulling games out at the end no matter what the circumstances, the way the Pats were the best in 2003-2004. You have to admire that kind of consistency. On the other hand, I could see a Baltimore-type game where the Pats dominate but can't put Indy away, and it comes down to the wire. I think it's unlikely either team can put the other away before the 4th quarter.

Should be a heck of a game.
 
Brady had a decent game yesterday, but he didn't exactly put on a clinic. Same DB situation next weekend.

Weren't you saying that there was no difference between Tampa's DBs and Miami's?


There clearly was. And theres the same difference this week.


The dolphins have young talent prospects at DB. The colts (and Tampa, besides Talib), are playing roster filler trash.


Now, the colts are a much better pass rushing team than Tampa, but the DBs are only superficially similar.
 
Weren't you saying that there was no difference between Tampa's DBs and Miami's?


There clearly was. And theres the same difference this week.


The dolphins have young talent prospects at DB. The colts (and Tampa, besides Talib), are playing roster filler trash.


Now, the colts are a much better pass rushing team than Tampa, but the DBs are only superficially similar.



but they do not have a guy like Talib in the backfield....:D
T
The Colts Pass Rush is not Great like the Giants of '07..... Therefore I do not see it as a threat to TFB and the Offense. Brady just needs to be accurate and the offense will be very successful :)
 
The dolphins have young talent prospects at DB. The colts (and Tampa, besides Talib), are playing roster filler trash.

You are wrong about that, they may be rookies, but they are not trash. Both are in the top six in tackles for the team. Both have a pick (Lacey's was a pick six), Powers has 5 passes defended and Lacey has 6. They make make some mistakes, all rookies do, but we could much worse.
 
Both are in the top six in tackles for the team.

I know where you are going with this, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. For a CB, that is a combination of the person they are covering needing to be tackled and cleaning up after RBs that get into the secondary. The Pats have a little of this as well since Springs has a lot of tackles for the amount of snaps he has played.

I think we all are much happier when the DL and LBs load up on the tackles.
 
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”


Theodore Roosevelt

-Supporter of the New England Patriot's since 1901:)
 
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