OT: Ben Watson's tackle

[PatriotsInGA]

He didn't jut run 102 yards (i think?), but he had to run across the field, there's another 15-20 yards. So in total he ran about 117-122 yards to absolutely lay out Bailey!

 

[Ryan]

they would have steamrolled the Steelers in Foxborough and Seattle was a joke that year.

I'm curious as to why you call Seattle a joke? They were 13-3 (best in the NFC) and had the best offense in the NFL to go along with a solid defense. They were better than the Pats were that year; far from a joke.

As for Watson's play, I haven't seen the game or highlights of it since it took place, so can someone remind me of what the situation was when Bailey picked off Brady leading to the Watson play? I know the Pats were threatening but what was the score at the time?

 

[maverick4]

He's done everything asked of him so far this season, and has been one of our best players on offense. I'll reserve judgment (not a common thing on this board).

Regardless of how Watson's career turns out and whether he fulfills his potential, it was an incredible play, and a crushing hit. Plus it sends a heck of a message when your franchise QB has just committed a game-changing interception.

Agreed that its one of the most memorable plays of the decade, and he demonstrated amazing speed and hustle to do it.

However, it's not too early to make a judgment on him as a tight end. He's been here, what, 5+ years now? He's mediocre as a TE, he does well as the 4th or 5th receiving option on the team, and is an avg blocker. This past off-season Belichick went out and got multiple other TE's. The only way he'll stay with the team after his contract comes up, is if he agrees to be paid at his skill level, which would be league avg pay at best.

 

[PatsfanGlo]

Agreed that its one of the most memorable plays of the decade, and he demonstrated amazing speed and hustle to do it.

However, it's not too early to make a judgment on him as a tight end. He's been here, what, 5+ years now? He's mediocre as a TE, he does well as the 4th or 5th option on the team. This past off-season Belichick went out and got multiple other TE's. The only way he'll stay with the team after his contract comes up, is if he agrees to be paid at his skill level, which would be league avg pay at best.

Super athelte. Lousy hands. Why not just make him a LB, with that kind of closing speed..... I always liked his potential, its just maddening to see him drop crucial passes. Also with that kind of freakish speed, I always wondered why he can never seem to get good separation from coverage. I didn't mean to bash him, he is just bit of frustrating case. But yea, that play is one of the greatest play ever.

 

[Ring 6]

Agreed that its one of the most memorable plays of the decade, and he demonstrated amazing speed and hustle to do it.

However, it's not too early to make a judgment on him as a tight end. He's been here, what, 5+ years now? He's mediocre as a TE, he does well as the 4th or 5th option on the team. This past off-season Belichick went out and got multiple other TE's. The only way he'll stay with the team after his contract comes up, is if he agrees to be paid at his skill level, which would be league avg pay at best.

Yeah, I pretty much totally disagree here.
First of all, TEs production is a function of the offense and who is surrounding them. The only TEs who catch a ton of passes are guys in offenses that lack good WRs to throw to.
Watson is in an offense with Moss and Welker, the best WR in the NFL, and the guy who has caught the most passes the last 2 years. NFL offenses do not run plays to make the TE the primary receiver, the TE is the third or fouth of fifth option on most plays. The fact that our WRs get open is more indicative of Watson catch totals than anything else.
I'm sure your example with be Dallas Clark, but if you actually watch Indy Dallas Clark gets most of his catches playing Wes Welkers position not Ben Watsons and if Indy had Welker, Clark wouldnt see nearly as many passes.
In 2006 before we had those WRs Watson was 2nd on the team in receptions (hardly the average 4th or 5th option you make him out to be) and would have probably led the team if he hadn't missed 3 games.
For his career, he has been a starter all along. He has averaged 2.5 catches a game, for a very good TE ypc avg and a high TD %.

Your idea that bringing in TEs in the offseason is an indication of something lacking in Watson is obtuse. We have 3 TE positions. None appear to have been brought in for the #1 TE spot, but rather for the #2 and #3. Your argument suggests that signing Joey Galloway or drafting Edelman means BB is trying to upgrade Randy Moss.

If Watson is an 'average' TE, you should have no problem showing me 10 that are clearly better, all things considered. That includes factoring in the offense they play in, the style of play and the layers around them.

 

[shmessy]

It was certainly a great, memorable, hustle play by Watson, an athletic freak of nature at tight end.

However, it also says a lot about Watson, that this play is Watson's most well known play, after being a 1st rd TE pick and having played many many years already with fewer memorable plays at his actual position.

Hey, Mav., sorry you missed this season's opening game.

 

[maverick4]

Hey, Mav., sorry you missed this season's opening game.

I did see the game. Have YOU been watching or paying attention the past 5 years? He's had a few great catches, it doesn't make him suddenly an above avg TE. He isn't coming back when his contract runs out, unless he's paid less than Chris Baker.

 

[maverick4]

Yeah, I pretty much totally disagree here.
First of all, TEs production is a function of the offense and who is surrounding them. The only TEs who catch a ton of passes are guys in offenses that lack good WRs to throw to.

Actually, your entire argument is invalid because in 2006, Watson should have had Gonzalez type numbers based on your argument, but he didn't, even though we had nobody at wide receiver, Reche Caldwell was our best receiver.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

If Watson is an 'average' TE, you should have no problem showing me 10 that are clearly better, all things considered.

Granted, this link & ranking is for fantasy purposes and factoring in blocking you would take a few off this list of 20, but with a straight face I can't come close to finding a way to put Ben in the top 10 or even particularly close to it

Fantasy Football 2009 PPR rankings: Top 20 TEs - Fantasy Football Jungle

 

[ricogatenby99]

Such inspiration!

 

[maverick4]

Your idea that bringing in TEs in the offseason is an indication of something lacking in Watson is obtuse. We have 3 TE positions. None appear to have been brought in for the #1 TE spot, but rather for the #2 and #3. Your argument suggests that signing Joey Galloway or drafting Edelman means BB is trying to upgrade Randy Moss. .

Deliberately terrible analogy on your part, not to mention misinterpretation of my argument. Why don't you point out how BB upgraded the RB corps this off season?

Belichick clearly did not feel comfortable with Watson or Maroney, after looking at the tape. He went out and got Fred Taylor, kept BJGE, and for tight end got Chris Baker signed to a long term deal (signed an hour after free agency opened), then tried to see if Alex Smith could play even though he already had Dave Thomas before camp.

 

[Northcountry]

Great play without a doubt, only wish Ben had tomahawked Baileys' arm and have the ball go into and through the endzone for a touchback leaving no doubt for referees.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

they would have steamrolled the Steelers in Foxborough and Seattle was a joke that year. It was also one of the few red-zone interceptions (in the only?) Brady has ever thrown in the post season.

I think he threw one against the chargers in 07. He might have thrown two in the red zone.

Watson had a good 07, but his numbers went down with tunnel vision Cassel last season.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually, your entire argument is invalid because in 2006, Watson should have had Gonzalez type numbers based on your argument, but he didn't, even though we had nobody at wide receiver, Reche Caldwell was our best receiver.

I didnt say he was Gonzalez.

 

[Ring 6]

Deliberately terrible analogy on your part, not to mention misinterpretation of my argument. Why don't you point out how BB upgraded the RB corps this off season?

Belichick clearly did not feel comfortable with Watson or Maroney, after looking at the tape. He went out and got Fred Taylor, kept BJGE, and for tight end got Chris Baker signed to a long term deal (signed an hour after free agency opened), then tried to see if Alex Smith could play even though he already had Dave Thomas before camp.

Yes, he worked hard to upgrade the rest of the TE depth chart behind Watson.

 

[Ring 6]

Granted, this link & ranking is for fantasy purposes and factoring in blocking you would take a few off this list of 20, but with a straight face I can't come close to finding a way to put Ben in the top 10 or even particularly close to it

Fantasy Football 2009 PPR rankings: Top 20 TEs - Fantasy Football Jungle

He is substantially better than at least half of the players on that list in REAL football, regardless of fantasy expectations.
I wouldnt rank the TE on Randy Moss and Wes Welkers team high in fantasy no matter who he is.

 

[Ring 6]

Deliberately terrible analogy on your part, not to mention misinterpretation of my argument. Why don't you point out how BB upgraded the RB corps this off season?

Belichick clearly did not feel comfortable with Watson or Maroney, after looking at the tape. He went out and got Fred Taylor, kept BJGE, and for tight end got Chris Baker signed to a long term deal (signed an hour after free agency opened), then tried to see if Alex Smith could play even though he already had Dave Thomas before camp.

Actually a perfect analogy because all of those positions, like TE saw BB try to upgrade DEPTH.

 

[jmt57]

Bill Belichick Press Conference

Listening to how Bill Belichick responded to a question about the play and it is clear his memories are not nearly as fond as many here on this forum's are.

Q: Benjamin Watson's great effort play against Denver on Champ Bailey, what you remember about that and what made that such a memorable play?

BB: The memories aren't very good. I mean, it was a great effort play by Ben - don't get me wrong. It was a tremendous play. The play wasn't overturned. We challenged it, it wasn't overturned. We challenged it and it wasn't overturned. It was the infamous ‘We don't have a good look at it' play, so in the end, he just intercepted the ball and ran back for a touchdown. It's hard for me to be doing hand springs when I think about plays like that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Granted, this link & ranking is for fantasy purposes and factoring in blocking you would take a few off this list of 20, but with a straight face I can't come close to finding a way to put Ben in the top 10 or even particularly close to it

Fantasy Football 2009 PPR rankings: Top 20 TEs - Fantasy Football Jungle

Interesting notion, albeit slightly OT. So, let's break it down. I'll only lay out the AFC. If someone wants to do the same for the NFC, they are obviously welcome to do so:

Jets: Keller
Bills: Fine
Dolphins: Fasano

Bengals: Coats
Ravens: Heap
Steelers: H. Miller
Browns: Royal

Colts: Clark
Jaguars: Lewis
Texans: Daniels
Titans: Scaife

Broncos: Graham
Chargers: Gates
Raiders: Z. Miller
Chiefs: Ryan

I think it's clear that H. Miller, Heap and Gates are better tight ends, and are the best 3 in the AFC. After that, it becomes more arguable, in my opinion. I could see people ranking Watson as high as 4th (I wouldn't), and I could see people ranking him as low as 9th (I wouldn't).

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Clark. Unless you have something against him, I'm assuming you just forgot him. Although he is more of a WR who is listed as a TE. No one would argue that Watson is better than Clark even though Clark can't do what Watson does in our offense (no, not drop the ball, block). Watson's versatility really helps.

Gates is living off of what he was. He hasn't been the same player for a season or two (injuries). Heap is back...for now.

I would say Clark, Miller, crap shoot.