Omar Kelly on possible Vjax to Pats

[Ivan]

I don't know about dominant, but he'll always be tall if nothing else. I'd have no problem giving him a contract for 3-4 years, where I wouldn't be comfortable giving Welker any more than 2.

Wow.



Amazing just how little respect there is for Welker on this site.

 

[Sciz]

Wow.

Amazing just how little respect there is for Welker on this site.

Is it completely unrealistic to think that Welker won't be an elite receiver when he's 33? He's going to decline sometime, and it'd be nice if the Pats didn't have to take $8M or so against the cap for him when his body is what Branch's is now.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Is it completely unrealistic to think that Welker won't be an elite receiver when he's 33? He's going to decline sometime, and it'd be nice if the Pats didn't have to take $8M or so against the cap for him when his body is what Branch's is now.

By then cap will be at 160Mill, and Brady will be ending his career. Welker takes a lot of pounding and yes his decline may happen suddenly and quickly. On the other hand he worked like a madman to comeback for ACL injury intime for following season.

I'm ok with 3 year deal expiring at end of 2014 season. Welker deserves to be kept with Brady

 

[DonBlackmon55]

He's a dolphins beat writer and is hearing on the street if SD doesn't lock him down he's headed to NE.

Just passing along

Fat chance. Why pay him 2X what Lloyd will demand ? Another doofin beat writer who should stick to focusing on his crap team than what Pats needs are.

Vjax is a primadonna, off field issues(2x drunk driving), and his best year, best year is a whopping 68 catches with North Carolina throwing to him.

So, we going to pay $10mill to this azz clown for 4-5 year contract with Gronk and Hernandez FA coming up, and 8mill to Welker ??????? :bricks:

 

[supafly]

pats dont have to bite any bullet. all they have to do is tag him

Yeah, all they have to do is tag him if they want to absorb a cap hit close to 10 million dollars this yr.

If they want to make things much more cost effective AND keep their leading WR for another few yrs, then they are going to have to offer him a 3 or 4 yr deal, even if they may be worried about him fizzling out after 2.

 

[supafly]

Is it completely unrealistic to think that Welker won't be an elite receiver when he's 33? He's going to decline sometime, and it'd be nice if the Pats didn't have to take $8M or so against the cap for him when his body is what Branch's is now.

Comparing Welker to Branch is pretty close to comparing apples to oranges.

For all we know Branch could be almost as effective right now, if he were asked to do what Welker does. Actually, come to think of it--Branch did fine in many areas for what was asked. Where we could use an upgrade is having a guy who could beat man coverage effectively and stretch the field, something that Branch lacks...luckily, we won't be asking Wes to do any of those things.

We're talking about a guy whose main job is to use his head and brains, coupled with a shifty juke move from time to time on 5-10 yard basic patterns off the line of scrimmage.

When trying to assess Welker's production and value 2-3 yrs down the line, I think you have to be fair and take into account what it is exactly that he is asked to do. It's his knowledge of the offense, chemistry with Brady, and ability to time things right + run the right routes that makes him effective in this particular scheme in N.England.

 

[ausbacker]

Wow.



Amazing just how little respect there is for Welker on this site.

Don't mind Sciz when it comes to Wes Welker. Intelligent comment escapes him when the subject of Wes Welker is broached.

 

[Ivan]

Is it completely unrealistic to think that Welker won't be an elite receiver when he's 33? He's going to decline sometime, and it'd be nice if the Pats didn't have to take $8M or so against the cap for him when his body is what Branch's is now.

When the facts on the field demonstrate that he is actually getting better and he was already great---YES. He is 31 not 38 and there is absolutely no reason he can't continue to perform close to this level for another 4-5 years. The idea that Patriot fans would want to see him go and bring in an overpriced Diva who is one drink from a year suspension is sheer insanity, and the truth is that all the same arguments Welker blew up last season are being used yet again despite the fact that he has shown them to be complete nonsense. The bottom line is that you guys don't respect him because he isn't tall enough and overrated enough, and no matter how incredible he plays that is never going to change. It's a shame, one would hope Patriot fans would be smart enough to recognize a great player for being just that, instead of just repeating the same old tired and irrelevant arguments.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

When the facts on the field demonstrate that he is actually getting better and he was already great---YES. He is 31 not 38 and there is absolutely no reason he can't continue to perform close to this level for another 4-5 years. The idea that Patriot fans would want to see him go and bring in an overpriced Diva who is one drink from a year suspension is sheer insanity, and the truth is that all the same arguments Welker blew up last season are being used yet again despite the fact that he has shown them to be complete nonsense. The bottom line is that you guys don't respect him because he isn't tall enough and overrated enough, and no matter how incredible he plays that is never going to change. It's a shame, one would hope Patriot fans would be smart enough to recognize a great player for being just that, instead of just repeating the same old tired and irrelevant arguments.

I dont know if its the pass he didnt catch or what but its not just this site, a lot of radio callers arent giving Welker much respect either and its mind boggling how many people would be willing to let this guy walk. Look at our offensive rankings since we've got Welker, he doesnt do it alone but its no coincidence. I think they end up giving him 4 years 32 mill or in that ballpark.

 

[supafly]

When the facts on the field demonstrate that he is actually getting better and he was already great---YES. He is 31 not 38 and there is absolutely no reason he can't continue to perform close to this level for another 4-5 years. The idea that Patriot fans would want to see him go and bring in an overpriced Diva who is one drink from a year suspension is sheer insanity, and the truth is that all the same arguments Welker blew up last season are being used yet again despite the fact that he has shown them to be complete nonsense. The bottom line is that you guys don't respect him because he isn't tall enough and overrated enough, and no matter how incredible he plays that is never going to change. It's a shame, one would hope Patriot fans would be smart enough to recognize a great player for being just that, instead of just repeating the same old tired and irrelevant arguments.

I think you make many great points, Ivan.

I also feel as though Welker is not given his fair shake by many, as he has proven himself worthy time and again.

I assume that the main knock on him (not that I fully agree) is that he offers something that we already have with younger and cheaper players in the TE's. That is the tendency to run shallow/intermediate at best routes that allow the defense to tend to clog the middle of the field.

I think there are at least some posters out there who do recognize Welker's value to the team, but on the other hand they also recognize our need to have someone on the outside to offer more production at that spot + help in opening up the underneath stuff.

The bottom line is that there's no reason to knock or undervalue Welker, as he is the bread and butter of this offense. The best scenario would be to keep Welker while also adding a mid-level FA threat (and a draft pick) to help to stretch the field. However, I would NOT overpay for a guy like V.Jackson personally, even though the immediate need is certainly there.

 

[supafly]

I dont know if its the pass he didnt catch or what but its not just this site, a lot of radio callers arent giving Welker much respect either and its mind boggling how many people would be willing to let this guy walk. Look at our offensive rankings since we've got Welker, he doesnt do it alone but its no coincidence. I think they end up giving him 4 years 32 mill or in that ballpark.

I think it would be a very dark day if we all had to witness the departure of Welker in the immediate future. Lord knows it would certainly piss Brady off too...once again.

Boy, I would love to know what the holdup in these negotiations are.

Your 4 year/ 32 million dollar deal (with guaranteed money in the high teens) just seems so naturally easy and agreeable to so many. I honestly keep wondering exactly which side is asking for too much/too little, as I can't see why they can't get this done.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

no vincent jackson..NOOOO

 

[Ivan]

I think you make many great points, Ivan.

I also feel as though Welker is not given his fair shake by many, as he has proven himself worthy time and again.

I assume that the main knock on him (not that I fully agree) is that he offers something that we already have with younger and cheaper players in the TE's. That is the tendency to run shallow/intermediate at best routes that allow the defense to tend to clog the middle of the field.

And this is where i think they are missing the real point, as good as Gronkowski and Hernandez are (and they are really good) no player has ever done what Welker does better than any player I have ever seen---Get Open Instantly. I have always felt that the primary reason Belichik brought Welker in to begin with was that quality more than any other. IN 2006 Brady took a beating all season long because his receivers could not get open quickly, and Welker was brought in to remedy that, and did so in incredible fashion. Brady has never been subjected to that kind of beating since and Welker deserves a ton of credit for that. Brady knows that anytime teams crank it up he has a release valve he can go to instantly, and that's a big luxury, especially when it also cranks out yards and first downs. Gronkowski and Hernandez are obviously big additions to their passing a game but no-one is going to replace Welker's ability to save Brady's @ss in an instant. Welker is a unique player and his relationship with Brady as his QB is also unique, it can't be replaced and letting him go would be the single worst move Belichik could make other than cutting Brady.

 

[supafly]

And this is where i think they are missing the real point, as good as Gronkowski and Hernandez are (and they are really good) no player has ever done what Welker does better than any player I have ever seen---Get Open Instantly. I have always felt that the primary reason Belichik brought Welker in to begin with was that quality more than any other. IN 2006 Brady took a beating all season long because his receivers could not get open quickly, and Welker was brought in to remedy that, and did so in incredible fashion. Brady has never been subjected to that kind of beating since and Welker deserves a ton of credit for that. Brady knows that anytime teams crank it up he has a release valve he can go to instantly, and that's a big luxury, especially when it also cranks out yards and first downs. Gronkowski and Hernandez are obviously big additions to their passing a game but no-one is going to replace Welker's ability to save Brady's @ss in an instant. Welker is a unique player and his relationship with Brady as his QB is also unique, it can't be replaced and letting him go would be the single worst move Belichik could make other than cutting Brady.

I agree 100%.

In your opinion, what would you assume or guess is holding up the negotiations?

Number of yrs? Guaranteed money (which would go hand in hand w/ # yrs)?

I think that 4 yrs/32 million would be a great deal for everyone involved too.

 

[Ivan]

I agree 100%.

In your opinion, what would you assume or guess is holding up the negotiations?

Number of yrs? Guaranteed money (which would go hand in hand w/ # yrs)?

I think that 4 yrs/32 million would be a great deal for everyone involved too.

To start with I think Welker's agent has a responsibility to come in ridiculously high, Welker's play and production warrant it and he has to start really high, in return the Patriots probably did the same and started low and the gap is large. Ultimately I think it's going to come in around the 4 years 36 million mark, but it could be 32 and it could be 40. We'll see, bottom line is that i really don't believe he is going anywhere as i think Belichik more than anyone other than maybe Brady knows just how great a player Welker is and how much he brings to this team.


Although Belichik obviously weighs everything when doing a deal like this I really don't believe he is saying that Welker is too short, too slow, 31 years old and will disappear in 2 years, VJ is bettah, Welker is easily stopped in Madden, and that he "limits the offense." I think he says-"Goddamn he's even better than I ever imagined he would be, I need to figure out how to keep him here for the rest of his career."

Belichik always keeps the players he knows are the best at what they do and those who play the game exactly the way he wants it played, and that's Welker, like Bruschi he is the "perfect football player." You don't find those often and you certainly don't let them walk without doing everything possible to keep them.

 

[IllegalContact]

welker is only going to be as good as he is with brady and maybe a few others throwing him the ball (brees, pmanning)

the market for him is going to be limited. which is exactly why the pats haven't signed him as with time, the price will come down some.

and if he does get a big deal somewhere, good for him and all the best. that $$ then will be well spent on someone like bowe and then backfill the posession WR with someone else.

 

[Ring 6]

welker is only going to be as good as he is with brady and maybe a few others throwing him the ball (brees, pmanning)

Welker is no different than any other WR.
Teams don't not sign good WRs because they don't have Tom Brady.

the market for him is going to be limited. which is exactly why the pats haven't signed him as with time, the price will come down some.

and if he does get a big deal somewhere, good for him and all the best. that $$ then will be well spent on someone like bowe and then backfill the posession WR with someone else.

I disagree with totally revamping the passing game right after having the 2nd most productive passing season in NFL hisory. Welker is and has been the focal point of that passing game.
Perhaps instead of worrying about what skills other receivers who produce less have than Welker doesnt you should be looking at the skills Welker has that no one else does, because that has been the focal point of our offense.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I disagree with totally revamping the passing game right after having the 2nd most productive passing season in NFL hisory. Welker is and has been the focal point of that passing game.

It's also a passing game which has been very limited against good defenses. Just because it has been the focal point doesnt mean it needs to continue to be so. It's also a passing game which has been very limited against good defenses, how does the offense need to change in order to become more successful in the post season?

Perhaps instead of worrying about what skills other receivers who produce less have than Welker doesnt you should be looking at the skills Welker has that no one else does, because that has been the focal point of our offense.

Has it been the focal point because limitations in personal made it the best option relative to others? If there are changes then perhaps it would be more productive for Welker not to be the focal point.

 

[IllegalContact]

Welker is no different than any other WR.
Teams don't not sign good WRs because they don't have Tom Brady.

the market for him is going to be limited. which is exactly why the pats haven't signed him as with time, the price will come down some.

and if he does get a big deal somewhere, good for him and all the best. that $$ then will be well spent on someone like bowe and then backfill the posession WR with someone else.

I disagree with totally revamping the passing game right after having the 2nd most productive passing season in NFL hisory. Welker is and has been the focal point of that passing game.
Perhaps instead of worrying about what skills other receivers who produce less have than Welker doesnt you should be looking at the skills Welker has that no one else does, because that has been the focal point of our offense.

welker is much different from tons of WR's just like slot guys are different from deep threats. the pats came within a hair of reproducing this year's results with reche caldwell and a 35 year old troy brown as wideouts. sure it's not as much fun for tommy-boy, but the pats didn't hesitate moving on from deion branch when they really could have used him.

backing up the truck for welker is a bad move IMO more so because I don't think they will have to ..... his market is not going to be that big.


not sayig that the pats need to make a change, but he is not a damn the torpedoes, must-have.

 

[jmt57]

Christopher Price looks at the possibility of the Pats signing Vincent Jackson:

It Is What It Is » Free Agent Snapshot: Vincent Jackson

Recent reports indicate that Jackson could be on the Patriots’ short list. In addition, there was plenty of talk about a Jackson-to-New England trade when he was going through his latest contract flap in San Diego in 2010. Jackson is also used to playing with an elite tight end (Antonio Gates), and has been a key part of a high-powered passing game for the last several years.

Jackson has always done well against the Patriots. In last year’s Week 2 matchup, he finished with 10 catches for 172 yards (both season highs) and a pair of touchdowns. In his three career games against New England, he has 19 catches for 359 yards (tops for any opponent he’s faced outside the AFC West) and three touchdowns).

Why it might not work: If the Chargers franchise him, he’ll stick with San Diego for another year. But if he does hit the open market, he’ll likely draw top dollar for free agent wide receivers, which could ultimately leave the Patriots looking elsewhere. It’s going to be a fluid market for wide receivers, and depending on who gets tagged, it could create some market uncertainty for elite receivers like Jackson, Wes Welker, Reggie Wayne, DeSean Jackson, Marques Colton, Dwayne Bowe, Stevie Johnson and Brandon Lloyd, who are all still possibilities to hit the open market.​