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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by PATSNUTme, Apr 17, 2008.

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  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
  2. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    This is interesting, thank you.
  3. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    But what if you have injury, character AND intelligence issues? Bring out the middle names!

    Wow. Derrick Harvey is good, but dumb. That's low, calling guys dumb in public. I mean, what purpose does it serve?

    Edit: Quentin Groves hits the tricolor trifecta! It's like a christmas tree! That's totally ridiculous. Where the hell do his "character issues" or "intelligence issues" come from? Somebody is just making this stuff up. And using crayons, too.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
  4. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sorry but that is not true. If you get the draft guides, they go into what they mean.

    Just because they mention it doesn't mean that is a real major concern. It means that it's something that could effect the draft status of the player. All the team know this and have or should have checked it out.That's why you see some players fall on draft day.
  5. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Wow Quentin Groves dropping to the bottom of round 2? Hell sign me up for Groves in Round 2 if that happens.
  6. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Having some justification is not exactly the same as having a valid justification. On top of that, not all "intelligence issues" are equal, the same way that not all "character issues" are equal. Taking plays off here and there is not the same as fathering a town full of babies. But with this uselessly color coded chart, they are effectively equivalent. As a result, the color coding is totally, unfathomably useless as any form of analytic. And I won't even begin on the intelligence issues. What a crock.

    That said, there may be some value in the grades, but Groves is not a second round talent. At least, probably not according to Jacksonville (an educated guess, of course).
  7. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    I agree that he won't get by Jacksonville at #26. Several of PFW's ratings don't jive with how I see the players, but whatever, it's their opinion.
  8. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Wonderlic Scores
    =============
    Quentin Groves (falling with intelligence issues) = 25 right / 38 answered
    Tracy Porter (rising with no intelligence issues) = 4 / 23

    Now while I don't have a lot of faith that Wonderlic scores translate to football IQ...when Vince Young makes fun of your Wonderlic results, ya got issues.
  9. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    The character "concern" with Groves stems from something that happened in 2006.

    The medical history is obvious since he had dislocated toes in 2007 (played through the injury), and recently underwent a simple procedure, that could possibly worry some NFL teams, even though it really shouldn't.

    That supposed intelligence issue is complete bullsh*t though. He was an early graduate at Auburn, which is not generally something an idiot accomplishes. Really, this reminds me of the rocket scientist who called Groves a "classic workout warrior", even though he's Auburns career sack leader, and was a defensive captain.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
  10. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Gosselin's latest rankings also have Groves falling with an arrow. The Pats may get a shot at Avril or Groves at the end of rd 2.
  11. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    It's the procedure he underwent, which really shouldn't be worrisome, since it completely corrects the issue. I hope it bumps Quentin all the way down to NE's pick at 62nd overall, but I don't think that will actually happen.

    Also, Gosselin has Avril and some other prospects (even those not among my personal favorites) ranked somewhat low. If those rankings hold up, then NE could snag some good players in the third round. But, it's never been Rich's rankings or opinions concerning players that were the most accurate. According to everyone who follows Gosselin, it's his final mock that you really want.
  12. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    What was McKelvin's wonderlic? I didn't know he was retarded... but that would make me really think twice about looking at him.
  13. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Here's a thought, If you're pretty sure that ONE of Groves/Avril will be available in round 2, why not trade down and take the best available corner, 1 of DRC/McKelvin? Then you still get a good pass rusher in round 2.
  14. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    13 correct / 34 answered

    He should be able to put on his uniform and know which goal to defend...but apparently not the brightest bulb on the tree.
  15. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    What's the source for Wonderlik scores? I'd like to see the full list. Other than Qb and center, I don't think Wonderlik scores are very important indicators of a prospect's NFL potential. The ability to understand visual patterns, identifying pre snaps keys, both for offense and defense, is more important than traditional literacy and math ability. Repetition, in film study and practice, is usually enough to get even a rockhead up to speed for the NFL. It's not rocket science. Meanwhile, many book smart players don't have the ability to diagnose and react quickly, to quickly translate thought into action.

    Wilfork scored a 10, and he is as clever, instinctive and dedicated a player as the Pats have on their roster.
  16. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Once again these are concerns but most are not enough to effect if a guy is draftable. I remember a couple of years ago there was a linebacker named Beck who looked great on film and did well at the combine. He started out in the top 50 but he ended up not being drafted due to major alcohol problems.

    There have been other with concerns that worked out just fine. I'm not defending PFW rankings but it is good to know that some players have issues, minor or major, that will help to explain why they drop if they do.

    Here is the key sentence:
    Players affected by multiple concerns are coded in multiple colors. Some arrows were used to indicate players who are gaining momentum in draft meetings or losing steam, regardless of whether we think it is warranted.[/B]

    So, Nolan is getting this info from some personnel guys around the NFL.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2008
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