My case for moving on without Moss

[The Dynasty]

Intangibles and the ability to not disappear in the games that matter most.

You are wrong.

In playoff games Branch averages 4 catches, 65 yards and only has 2 TDs in 11 games. Much of those numbers are a bit sued because of his big games in the 03 and 04 SB's.

Moss on the other hand averages 4 catches, 72 yards and has 10 TD's in 12 playoff games. Moss does not disappear in the games that matter most. Moss has always been a guy that has demanded the most attention from the opponents defense, while Branch hasnt had that much attention given to him.

Comparing Branch to Moss is ridiculous

 

[jsull87]

honestly i agree with your critisim of our wr as a "unit". But You have to see what you are saying tho that moss and welker are doubled. Making the life of the other recievers easy. therefore the problem is not moss/welker. It is our other wide outs are rubbish and can't get open 9i really noticed this more in the baltamore game... aiken honestly is a STer and thats it) and maybe out OC not doing enough to get others involved... but that ,ight also be a product of our other wideouts not being good enough.

I honestly think you keep moss 1000+yards and 10+ td's... again. And you try build talent around them and hope you hit on some wide outs e.g NY Giants with Steve Smith and Mario Manningham who shone this year. I am one of those guys that honestly thinks we need a wideout this year with one of our 2nd's

 

[iapatsfan]

Given that 96 points were scored in the game, I'd say yes.

I really don't understand the point of getting rid of Moss. The guy will be in the last year of his contract, he's still a threat, and he can help facilitate transition at that position. On top of that, we're looking at a year without a salary cap in place. I really does not make a bit of sense to cut him. But I guess someone needs to be the fall guy for yesterday, right?

I'm not saying he's the fall guy at all. I'm just being objective in saying that our WR core has zero depth right now, and we have an aging WR occupying $10 mil in cap space. I can say the same thing about Thomas as OLB. I don't think it just a coincidence that we have so little depth at those two positions. If we go into next season with Moss and a bunch of JAGs at WR, we are going to have problems similar to what happened yesterday. Our offense is too easy to defend in its current state. Moss's current cap # does not allow us to make many changes to this current state. Are you comfortable with the WR as it currently stands? What changes do you think are possible with Moss occupying so much money at that position? From week 11 on, Moss's high for a game was 5 catches for 70 yds in 8 games. Is that the production of a $10 mil WR. I think the break down over the course of the year can be attributed to the fact he is getting older. Are we supposed to expect that to be different next year, especially without Welker?

 

[Snake Eyes]

I wonder if it occurred to anyone that Moss might be rather injured, maybe that's why he hasn't been a superstar performer lately.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

I'm not saying he's the fall guy at all. I'm just being objective in saying that our WR core has zero depth right now, and we have an aging WR occupying $10 mil in cap space. I can say the same thing about Thomas as OLB. I don't think it just a coincidence that we have so little depth at those two positions. If we go into next season with Moss and a bunch of JAGs at WR, we are going to have problems similar to what happened yesterday. Our offense is too easy to defend in its current state. Moss's current cap # does not allow us to make many changes to this current state. Are you comfortable with the WR as it currently stands? What changes do you think are possible with Moss occupying so much money at that position? From week 11 on, Moss's high for a game was 5 catches for 70 yds in 8 games. Is that the production of a $10 mil WR. I think the break down over the course of the year can be attributed to the fact he is getting older. Are we supposed to expect that to be different next year, especially without Welker?

In an uncapped year it doesn't matter how much cap space he occupies.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Miles Austin and Vincent Jackson are not Randy Moss. They are good WRs but they are just not into Randy Moss' class. Simms did say that Moss was not being bracketed or double covered, but this was when the Ravens started to get into prevent mode and playing well off the NE WR's. This was when Moss got his catches, early in the game he was being double covered and that was why he didnt contribute in the 1st quarter.

Yes Moss has been here for 3 years, and we were 17-1 with him his first year and 1 play away from winning a SB. The second year his QB was Matt Cassel and Moss was a huge part in the team even going 10-6. This season was a struggle for the whole team and the season cannot be blamed on Moss. Brady was coming back from an injury and then got another injury during the season. The OL was never 100%, and the defense was gaining experience. By all accounts this was a rebuilding year for Patriot standards. Just because Moss hasnt won a SB doesnt mean that he isnt contributing here.

Moss is on a bit of a slide? Are you kidding me? Look at his stats this season, 83 catches (T-12), 1264 yards (T-5), 13 TD's (T-1), 18 catches over 20 yards (T-6), 62 first downs (6). Those stats are really of a player who is on a bit of a slide? Lets get serious here...

No doubt Moss is contributing and hes still a top 10 wide receiver but lets get real here, hes been banged up all season and hes going to be 33 years old going into next season. I saw him literally held on to with one hand by a corner yesterday, How long does he have left? Now you have a guy like Vincent Jackson who is an inch taller, just as fast right now and hes on the upside of his career. I want you to watch him Jacksons route running and the separation he gets. You cant tell me you haven't seen Moss get shut down and Welker picks up the slack (because teams pay so much attention to Moss). All in all the receivers we had in the SB years were great route runners and Moss' Routes havnt been sharp recently. I'm not saying statistically but physically hes not as dominant. People still respect him and rightfully so.

 

[iapatsfan]

I honestly think you keep moss 1000+yards and 10+ td's... again. And you try build talent around them and hope you hit on some wide outs e.g NY Giants with Steve Smith and Mario Manningham who shone this year. I am one of those guys that honestly thinks we need a wideout this year with one of our 2nd's

How is this possible with a WR occupying $10 mil in cap sapce? I'm just saying the philosophy of paying so much money to a single WR (especially an aging one) is a far cry from the philosophy of 2001-2005.

 

[2000army]

I'm not saying he's the fall guy at all. I'm just being objective in saying that our WR core has zero depth right now, and we have an aging WR occupying $10 mil in cap space. I can say the same thing about Thomas as OLB. I don't think it just a coincidence that we have so little depth at those two positions. If we go into next season with Moss and a bunch of JAGs at WR, we are going to have problems similar to what happened yesterday. Our offense is too easy to defend in its current state. Moss's current cap # does not allow us to make many changes to this current state. Are you comfortable with the WR as it currently stands? What changes do you think are possible with Moss occupying so much money at that position? From week 11 on, Moss's high for a game was 5 catches for 70 yds in 8 games. Is that the production of a $10 mil WR. I think the break down over the course of the year can be attributed to the fact he is getting older. Are we supposed to expect that to be different next year, especially without Welker?

There is no cap.

 

[Yfz01]

Let me say that I don't support getting rid of him, just that I have come to appreciate the value of the type of receivers the Patriots have won with in the past. The type of players that always seemed to do what was needed to win in the games that mattered most.

The Ravens game really soured me on Moss. He needed to be a major factor in that game and he wasn't. I don't care if he was hurt or triple covered. He needed to be sacrificing every single bone and joint in his body to do what was necessary to win that game. He needed to be in the slot clawing out 6 yard gains on 2nd down and getting clobbered by Ray Lewis, whatever was needed to win. The bottom line is that he didn't get the job done and they lost.

You dont care if he is triple covered or injured? Screw it then, why wasn't Welker playing? I don't care if he is injured. Why did Brady play so badly? I don't care if he has no blocking on the line or three broken ribs. I mean, these excuses are stupid! Guys need to play great every game, and Moss is no exception. Reminds me of the game against the Vikes in the playoffs when Jerry Rice was shutdown, the freakin dog faker. Moss only caught all five passes thrown in his direction, pathetic.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Given our WR situation, you can't get rid of Moss unless you're getting a young productive WR for him, and that's not likely to happen given his age and cap #. Get what you can from him in this final year, draft a WR or 2 this year so they are ready to step in for 2011 and let Moss walk on good terms. 2011 I'd like to see Welker, Tate, Edelman, and 2 draftees from this year (maybe a FA addition if BB finds another Welker)... given that Tate and/or the draftees pan out for us.

 

[iapatsfan]

There is no cap.

I'm assuming a deal between the players and owners is worked out. Even if it isn't, paying an aging WR $10 mil / yr seems excessive, and is a different approach than the Pats used during their Superbowl runs.

 

[Deus Irae]

The issue isn't that we need to fire Moss before his contract runs out.

I agree that the offense should spread the ball around a lot more.

The issue is that we don't have other receivers.

I agree that we need receivers for 2010 and for the future.
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BOTTOM LINE

No matter what anyone thinks of Moss, we need to bring in at least three free agent receivers. We have 2-4 roster spots for receivers, depending on their others skills (like ST coverage or returner).

In the end, there is no position that has the need for more focus.

Other than your last line, I'm with you all the way on this.

 

[Scouse Patriot]

The only thing I don't like is the cap number but there might not be a cap so that may not even be an issue....well, only to Kraft.

 

[iapatsfan]

Other than your last line, I'm with you all the way on this.

And my point is how do we get quality WR's any different than we currently have with Moss getting paid $10 mil at that position. With him occupying so much coin, our options are extremely limited to players like Galloway and Aiken.

 

[TriplecHamp]

I dont want Moss to go at all, Im just playing Devils advocate. A serious case can be made as to why letting Moss go can actually benefit the team can be made, The Cowboys dump statistically their best wideout and all of the sudden they win their first playoff game in over a decade. Does anybody honestly believe that it had everything to do with his behavior?

 

[iapatsfan]

I guess my basic argument is this; Is Randy Moss, in his current state, worth $10 mil / yr? Or, would the Pats be better off getting 2 or 3 above avg WR's with that money?

 

[loloooooooooooo]

We need to get Dez Bryant and Golden tate

 

[emoney_33]

Intangibles and the ability to not disappear in the games that matter most.

Deion Branch:

2003 Divisional Game: 10 Yards
2003 AFC Champ Game: 23 Yards
2004 Divisional Game: 24 Yards

And he didn't get NEARLY the attention that Moss gets. Plus those teams had more reliance on the running game.

 

[emoney_33]

Let me say that I don't support getting rid of him, just that I have come to appreciate the value of the type of receivers the Patriots have won with in the past. The type of players that always seemed to do what was needed to win in the games that mattered most.

The Ravens game really soured me on Moss. He needed to be a major factor in that game and he wasn't. I don't care if he was hurt or triple covered. He needed to be sacrificing every single bone and joint in his body to do what was necessary to win that game. He needed to be in the slot clawing out 6 yard gains on 2nd down and getting clobbered by Ray Lewis, whatever was needed to win. The bottom line is that he didn't get the job done and they lost.

A) You have fantasies of the past. "always seemed to do what was needed to won" is not a repeatable skill, sorry. Deion Branch has always done exactly WHAT to help Seattle win btw.

B) Not only was Moss apparently playing injured against the Ravens, but this team had absolutely NOTHING for wide receivers to help. Brady was forcing the ball to guys like MATTHEW SLATER. You replace Moss with Branch against the Ravens, and that game is even worse because Deion wouldn't have been gameplanned for and focused on like Moss.

No one got the job done against the Ravens, it's not Moss' fault they lost. Get over it

 

[emoney_33]

And my point is how do we get quality WR's any different than we currently have with Moss getting paid $10 mil at that position. With him occupying so much coin, our options are extremely limited to players like Galloway and Aiken.

Guys that you fantasize about (Deion and Givens) being so tuned to winning were drafted, not bought as free agents. Moss' contract is not prohibiting Branch/Givens type of money (the money they got when they were HERE).