Welcome to PatsFans.com

My case for moving on without Moss

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by iapatsfan, Jan 11, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. iapatsfan

    iapatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,377
    Likes Received:
    74
    Ratings:
    +136 / 25 / -10

    I preface my comments by admitting I don't know what the cap impact of cutting Moss amounts to.

    I know I've said this before, but I think it's (Moving on without Moss) necessary for the Pats to get back to contending for a championship. It seems that in the last couple of years the Pats philosophy toward the WR position has changed a great deal. During the Pats great years of 2001-2004, the philosophy seemed to be that our 3rd, 4th and 5th WR's are better than the opponent's 3rd, 4th and 5th DB's. This allowed us to spread a defense out and have 4 or 5 VIABLE options to throw to. As the Pats are currently made up, even assuming a healthy Welker, our spread consists of Moss, Welker, Aiken, Edelman and Faulk or Watson. If a team doubles Moss and Welker, who else can beat one on one coverage on a regular basis? On a 1-10 scale, I would rather have a WR core consisting of four or five 7's than two 10's and a bunch of JAGs. Moss is getting older (he looked 90 against Balt), and he has a 2010 cap # of over $10mil. His cap figure makes it extremely difficult to have any depth at the position, and the lack of depth is what killed our passing game this year. Remember the days of Brady not having a favorite WR. I would like to get back to that combined with an improved running game. All of that is made very difficult with Moss having such a massive cap figure.
  2. The Dynasty

    The Dynasty Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Just doesnt make sense...you get rid of Moss and now your #1 WR is Julian Edelman to start 2010 and the rest are Sam Aiken, Isiah Stanback and Steve Slator. Those guys dont even belong as WR's in the NFL, they are nothing more than special teams guys.

    Look at Moss' stats this season 83 catches (T-12), 1264 yards (T-5), 13 TD's (T-1), 18 catches over 20 yards (T-6), 62 first downs (6). How does cutting someone putting up numbers like this help the Patriots. Not to mention that Tom Brady has had 2 of his best years statistically with Moss on the team
  3. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,172
    Likes Received:
    26
    Ratings:
    +66 / 0 / -0

    No Jersey Selected

    I think if it is a cap year. He very may well be traded.

    I do think however that until the Welker/Tate situation is known a no. 2/3 WR is in place we cannot fathom/consider him being traded.
  4. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,437
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ratings:
    +45 / 1 / -0

    #24 Jersey

    I am actually opening up to moving on without Moss, honestly Id rather get younger at that spot and get more depth. I would rather have a core of Vincent Jackson, Miles Austin (or a rookie speedster like Mady Gilyard) and Julian Edleman with another rookie behind them on the depth chart. Than Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Joey Galloway...
  5. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,389
    Likes Received:
    91
    Ratings:
    +211 / 14 / -2

    This makes no sense. And the cap effect is irrelevant, given that Moss is in his last year of his contrct, and there will be no cap in any case.
  6. The Dynasty

    The Dynasty Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    There is no chance Dallas is letting Miles Austin go and pretty much the same for the Chargers and Jackson. Dont count on those guys coming to NE.

    Look at Brady's numbers with Moss, the 2 best years statistically of his career...

    Also, Welker doesnt put up the numbers he did this season without Moss on the same team.
  7. Theplayer

    Theplayer Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Watching the Packer-Cardinal game, I was amazed how often Breaston, Fitz, Driver, Jennings were wide open compared to Moss in the Pats game. Was it just horrible defense?
  8. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    6,631
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

  9. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,437
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ratings:
    +45 / 1 / -0

    #24 Jersey

    No doubt the feed off of each other but either one of those receivers can do the same thing that Moss does. Without Welker yesterday what did Moss do? The announcer said repeatedly that he wasn't being bracketed either. Im sure other teams are saying that there is no chance we are letting Wilfork go. In an uncapped year anything can happen. Bradys numbers were great with Moss but hes been here for three season and how many rings has he won? Hes got one year left on his contract and to me he's on a bit of a slide so I dont expect us to resign him after next season. Why not unload him while we still have time. Its not like I dont want Moss here but in the long term it may not be the best Idea to keep him.
  10. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    26,502
    Likes Received:
    354
    Ratings:
    +895 / 16 / -24

    No Jersey Selected

    Given that 96 points were scored in the game, I'd say yes.

    I really don't understand the point of getting rid of Moss. The guy will be in the last year of his contract, he's still a threat, and he can help facilitate transition at that position. On top of that, we're looking at a year without a salary cap in place. I really does not make a bit of sense to cut him. But I guess someone needs to be the fall guy for yesterday, right? :rolleyes:
  11. The Dynasty

    The Dynasty Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Miles Austin and Vincent Jackson are not Randy Moss. They are good WRs but they are just not into Randy Moss' class. Simms did say that Moss was not being bracketed or double covered, but this was when the Ravens started to get into prevent mode and playing well off the NE WR's. This was when Moss got his catches, early in the game he was being double covered and that was why he didnt contribute in the 1st quarter.

    Yes Moss has been here for 3 years, and we were 17-1 with him his first year and 1 play away from winning a SB. The second year his QB was Matt Cassel and Moss was a huge part in the team even going 10-6. This season was a struggle for the whole team and the season cannot be blamed on Moss. Brady was coming back from an injury and then got another injury during the season. The OL was never 100%, and the defense was gaining experience. By all accounts this was a rebuilding year for Patriot standards. Just because Moss hasnt won a SB doesnt mean that he isnt contributing here.

    Moss is on a bit of a slide? Are you kidding me? Look at his stats this season, 83 catches (T-12), 1264 yards (T-5), 13 TD's (T-1), 18 catches over 20 yards (T-6), 62 first downs (6). Those stats are really of a player who is on a bit of a slide? Lets get serious here...
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  12. Prufrock

    Prufrock Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Moss is a great WR and has pretty much been a model citizen here, but I'm honestly sick of him. He may not be acting like a clown, but his mere presence seems like it subtly inspires other people to not act in a way that ultimately benefits the team. So much of football is creating the right atmosphere and I think at best all you can hope for with someone like Moss is that they aren't going to negatively effect that atmosphere. Give me the days of Deion Branch and David Givens where at least they had receivers that shut their mouths and didn't disappear in big games.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,445
    Likes Received:
    285
    Ratings:
    +730 / 44 / -47

    Disable Jersey

    So, basically, your case for "moving on without Moss" is that the team has only 2 wide receivers that are really proven worthy at the NFL level, so we should get rid of one of them and let the QB choose who to throw to from a pair of stiffs and a rookie that will now have to take the spot of that 2nd proven receiver?

    You do realize that this past year was featured the team's worst WR3 since 2001, right? I mean, all it takes is one look at a team like Arizona to figure out the importance of the WR3.
  14. The Dynasty

    The Dynasty Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    You are not understanding what the Patriots have now compared to back in the SB years. The Patriots do not have anyone like Branch, Givens and Patten. The Patriots have Aiken, Edelman and Stanback. Those guys are not even close to Branch, Givens and Patten. They need that #1 elite receiver.

    What does Deion Branch bring to the table that Randy Moss doesnt?
  15. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    What the hell is wrong with you people? All over this board, drop Moss, Brady has no passion, BB has lost it, this team is heading for 0-16... WTF we MADE THE DAMN PLAYOFFS.

    Brady has played with Moss two seasons. One season we were one or two plays away from a perfect season. The other season we made the playoffs during a transition year, but went into the playoffs inexperienced and hurting. We had exactly ONE receiver and he is nursing bad knees, bad back or both.

    And the logical conclusions is some fairy tale land that Moss is to blame and we need better 3,4,5 receivers? Yes we need another WIDE receiver, yes we need better receiver depth, but Moss is NOT preventing that from happening. Where would you put the $6M in cap you save by cutting Moss? You think that's going to get you 2 good receivers?

    Seriously, take a step back and relax. There is almost never a single reason for something, and these fantasies of specific details from past championship teams really has to stop.
  16. Prufrock

    Prufrock Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Intangibles and the ability to not disappear in the games that matter most.
  17. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    13,027
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +43 / 4 / -3

    I'm open to trading him AFTER the draft if we get a bunch of receivers in here.

    But it won't be because of cap concerns, that's for sure.

    If Brady and Belichick think he needs to go, then he needs to go.
  18. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,389
    Likes Received:
    91
    Ratings:
    +211 / 14 / -2

    The issue isn't that we need to fire Moss before his contract runs out.

    I agree that the offense should spread the ball around a lot more.

    The issue is that we don't have other receivers.

    I agree that we need receivers for 2010 and for the future.
    ============================================

    BOTTOM LINE

    No matter what anyone thinks of Moss, we need to bring in at least three free agent receivers. We have 2-4 roster spots for receivers, depending on their others skills (like ST coverage or returner).

    In the end, there is no position that has the need for more focus.
  19. Prufrock

    Prufrock Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Let me say that I don't support getting rid of him, just that I have come to appreciate the value of the type of receivers the Patriots have won with in the past. The type of players that always seemed to do what was needed to win in the games that mattered most.

    The Ravens game really soured me on Moss. He needed to be a major factor in that game and he wasn't. I don't care if he was hurt or triple covered. He needed to be sacrificing every single bone and joint in his body to do what was necessary to win that game. He needed to be in the slot clawing out 6 yard gains on 2nd down and getting clobbered by Ray Lewis, whatever was needed to win. The bottom line is that he didn't get the job done and they lost.
  20. BrocktonBomber

    BrocktonBomber Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Lets get rid of all our good talent Dump Brady Dump Moss Hold the Mayo, Who needs any of them. You dont need them do you iapatsfan? But you do need your meds now go take them.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>