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Most irreplaceable Patriots player other than Brady....


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He's a mediocre corner. Definitely a better fit as a safety.

Yes because mediocre corners make the pro bowl their rookie year. He's a good corner and would be elite in a defense that uses zone primarily. He's an elite safety in any system.
 
Define irreplaceable. For example Gronk can be replaced by Hooman and such, but they are not GRONK. Does that make Gronk "irreplaceable"?

You really can't discern the context in which the topic question is asked? We know that more than one player in all of football can play the position of tight end. It's about the production. Obviously.
 
Why are the Patriots CB's mediocre vs everyone?

I would like to know why the Patriots have totally sucked against the pass since post Ty Law, especially the last 5 years.

Now they sign a mostly useless CB to a multi million dollar deal and they will probably still suck vs the pass. What's the problem here exactly, why have they not figured out that this has cost them 1-3 superbowls over the last few years and still they continue to SUCK vs the pass.. Here's the latest report..:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

by Larry Hartstein | CBSSports.com
(8/13/13) In Tuesday's joint New England-Tampa Bay practice, the Patriots corners "posed no threat for the Buccaneers' No. 1 receiver, who regularly beat any kind of coverage thrown at him," reports the Boston Globe.
"[Vincent] Jackson (6-5, 230) has incredible speed for a man his size," the report said. "He had nice catches over the middle against Kyle Arrington, and an impressive leaping sideline catch against Logan Ryan. Jackson also beat Aqib Talib and Devin McCourty [at cornerback] in 7-on-7 work."
 
Damn this thread! Close it quick before it jinxes TB permanently (one man's reaction after the TB knee injury during today's practice!)
 
He's a mediocre corner. Definitely a better fit as a safety.

This is 100% wrong. Every single statistical analysis for corners had him in the elite range when he played corner last year. He had a tough sophomore campaign - a year where he put on weight for possible safety duties and it slowed him down (along with having studs like Sterling Moore, Jarrad Page, and Sergio Brown to help him). But other than that, he's always been an elite player regardless of where he was on the field.

It just so happens that last year our corners were better than our safeties (by a large margin) and his play at safety benefited the defense more than it did at corner. And by that, I mean we replaced the worst safety in the NFL in Tavon Wilson with an elite one, and replaced an elite CB in McCourty with a solid/above average one in Talib.
 
Yes because mediocre corners make the pro bowl their rookie year. He's a good corner and would be elite in a defense that uses zone primarily. He's an elite safety in any system.
The probowl is an awful way to measure ability. That being said, he's definitely both an elite CB and elite S.
 
No offense B6--but this thread has "jinx" written all over it ;)

I kid...but at the same time I don't.

I may be a weirdo, but I stand by my statement from a couple of days ago.
 
I know that everyone wants to come up with a different take, but Vince is the answer. Mc Courty was dreadful as a corner after his rookie year. He's a better fit at safety, but not a difference maker there, either. If he was truly an elite safety, the Patriots' pass defense might have been mediocre last year--instead of awful. He's maybe an above average safety, which makes him look good by comparison with the rest of the Patriots' safeties. Let me ask this question: if the Patriots had lost Mc Courty vs. Baltimore last year instead of Talib, would we have had a better chance of winning that game?
 
Well I guess we'll get this answer to this question this week. My opinion only, but Vince can't be replaced. Whoever you guys get to fill this gaping hole won't be able to fill his shoes. Man the injury bug has been bad this year.
 
Well I guess we'll get this answer to this question this week. My opinion only, but Vince can't be replaced. Whoever you guys get to fill this gaping hole won't be able to fill his shoes. Man the injury bug has been bad this year.

How'd they replace him last night? They still won. How'd they replace him in the first three weeks when he was injured?

They'll survive. They replaced Ty Law and a host of other players.
 
How'd they replace him last night? They still won. How'd they replace him in the first three weeks when he was injured?

They'll survive. They replaced Ty Law and a host of other players.

They never did replace Law, in much the same way that they won't replace Wilfork. They adapted and changed their style, knowing that they couldn't replace him.
 
How'd they replace him last night? They still won. How'd they replace him in the first three weeks when he was injured?

They'll survive. They replaced Ty Law and a host of other players.

The patriots never replaced Ty Law. They got asante samuel to fill his role, which is like a zoo getting a cat to replace a lion.
 
:)

Talib is better than any corners that we have had since Law.
 
Wilfork.

Oops.
 
They never did replace Law, in much the same way that they won't replace Wilfork. They adapted and changed their style, knowing that they couldn't replace him.

maybe, but they won the superbowl the year he went down.
 
:)

Talib is better than any corners that we have had since Law.

Agreed. We have finally replaced Ty Law.

Hopefully, we'll replace Wilfork faster than that. My money is on replacing him when Vince Wilfork comes off PUP next year.

This is going to have a horrendous trickle-down effect on the defense. If we get somebody quick to help with inside pass rush in sub defense, we expose ourselves to running plays against teams that can spread it out. Let's say Armstead is everything we hope him to be as an inside pass-rush specialist and we line him up next to Kelly or Jones. 2nd and 20 can quickly become 3rd and 6 when your undersized DLine can't occupy 2 OLmen defending the delay and you are left with DBs needing to make tackles in passing situations. If they are turning and running in man-to-man, those runs become really dangerous. That could mean more zone when faciing a spread formation and a dangerous back. Now, our secondary doesn't look so good, and if Armstead isn't the answer and Vellano isn't improving by leaps and bounds, the secondary will look even worse, because our pass rush will suffer from Wilfork's absence, too.

Last night, we got by, because we were able to adapt better than Atlanta. When teams have a week to prepare for the Pats' new DLine, they are going to have many more ways to take advantage of Wilfork's absence, and we're going to be challenged to respond effectively.

Our best hope, in my mind, is that Kelly can raise his game and improve his conditioning to take more snaps and still be effective, and that Armstead provides a boost soon. Our best hope, however, is that one of them is the 2013 defensive edition of the 2008 edition of Matt Cassel, because as the thread consensus said pre-season, we just lost our second most irreplaceable player.
 
Does everyone feel the same way about this still?

2013: PPG with/without Gronk

with Gronk: 36.3ppg
without Gronk: 20.8ppg

Yes, a small sample size. However, this season/2012 AFCCG/2011 SB have made me change my answer from Big Vince to Gronk. The offense is just different without him.
 
Does everyone feel the same way about this still?

2013: PPG with/without Gronk

with Gronk: 36.3ppg
without Gronk: 20.8ppg

Yes, a small sample size. However, this season/2012 AFCCG/2011 SB have made me change my answer from Big Vince to Gronk. The offense is just different without him.

It's clearly him or Talib right now.
 
Does everyone feel the same way about this still?

2013: PPG with/without Gronk

with Gronk: 36.3ppg
without Gronk: 20.8ppg

Yes, a small sample size. However, this season/2012 AFCCG/2011 SB have made me change my answer from Big Vince to Gronk. The offense is just different without him.

The gronk is key. He is just a beast.

Talib though, he is key too. Hopefully he can manage his injury because if the last seasons of his career are anything, its gonna mean its gonna linger.
 
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