Mock epic fail

[manxman2601]

Agreed on all points.



I never said we have to go DT at 29, or even defense. Amaro at 29 is acceptable to me. Not my preference, but acceptable. It's trading up for Amaro and then following it with a WE that I find objectionable.

And I'm not convinced about Nix at 29, either.

That's interesting. I was trying to think of a scenario in which I would find a draft "objectionable" and I'm struggling to think of one short of taking people way out of sync with where they're projected to go. And I personally don't see how giving the best player on our team two extra weapons could be considered objectionable. We live or die with Tom Brady, making sure he's serviced should always be a consideration.

 

[manxman2601]

I know you would take a quality DT just as I would a quality TE. The problem with the mock is giving up what it would take to move from 29 to 17 in the real world to get a player who I feel would be marginal at 29.

BTW I didn't see the entire game as a disclaimer but the one thing that gave me pause about Donald was the FSU game. That line handled him. Granted one of the best lines in the country but in the NFL that's what you're looking at.

I've said from the start that I didn't like the trade. I've been taking as a given that we all agree it's a bad trade and just focusing on the players in this debate.

 

[mayoclinic]

That's interesting. I was trying to think of a scenario in which I would find a draft "objectionable" and I'm struggling to think of one short of taking people way out of sync with where they're projected to go. And I personally don't see how giving the best player on our team two extra weapons could be considered objectionable. We live or die with Tom Brady, making sure he's serviced should always be a consideration.

Well, I called it "epic fail". For me, a draft that ignores both OL and DL on days 1 and 2 is an epic flail.

 

[manxman2601]

Well, I called it "epic fail". For me, a draft that ignores both OL and DL on days 1 and 2 is an epic flail.

Fair enough. I will sign off with this "epic fail" draft:

Rnd One - Devin McCourty
Rnd Two - Rob Gronkowski
Rnd Two - Jermaine Cunningham
Rnd Two - Brandon Spikes
Rnd Three - Taylor Price
Rnd Four - Aaron Hernandez

The lack of OL and DL did not make this draft a fail.

 

[everlong]

Fair enough. I will sign off with this "epic fail" draft:

Rnd One - Devin McCourty
Rnd Two - Rob Gronkowski
Rnd Two - Jermaine Cunningham
Rnd Two - Brandon Spikes
Rnd Three - Taylor Price
Rnd Four - Aaron Hernandez

The lack of OL and DL did not make this draft a fail.

Totally different team and set of needs. Pretty sure he meant any draft this year that doesn't include OL and DL.

 

[manxman2601]

Totally different team and set of needs. Pretty sure he meant any draft this year that doesn't include OL and DL.

Well knowing Mayo, he prioritises OL and DL every year so I assumed he meant that that applied to every year. Anyway, I'm only teasing him because we tend to see things quite differently in this regard.

 

[everlong]

Well knowing Mayo, he prioritises OL and DL every year so I assumed he meant that that applied to every year. Anyway, I'm only teasing him because we tend to see things quite differently in this regard.

I know he and Grid live by the line it starts in the trenches but I've seen him advocate for other positions many times in the first two rounds so I didn't take it that way. Not that I'm right.

 

[zimmy]

Well, we actually have some fair depth at DT and on the offensive line. I'm not in love with these picks but I'm not going to complain if on the real draft day we get two new weapons for Brady. I hate trading up in a draft of this depth though, hate it.

I happen to think our key needs right now are:

1. More pressure of the QB. A defensive end to split time with Jones/Nink ideally
2. A coverage linebacker, who can ideally blitz.
3. A big receiver target that won't mean Brady has to fit the ball into tiny windows to make a completion.
4. An upgrade at centre/guard
5. a hard hitting safety

Out of all of those, which one will go furthest to improving this team from day 1? It's got to be a big target for Brady. Especially with Gronk not liable to be back to health soon.

 

[manxman2601]

Well, we actually have some fair depth at DT and on the offensive line. I'm not in love with these picks but I'm not going to complain if on the real draft day we get two new weapons for Brady. I hate trading up in a draft of this depth though, hate it.

I happen to think our key needs right now are:

1. More pressure of the QB. A defensive end to split time with Jones/Nink ideally
2. A coverage linebacker, who can ideally blitz.
3. A big receiver target that won't mean Brady has to fit the ball into tiny windows to make a completion.
4. An upgrade at centre/guard
5. a hard hitting safety

Out of all of those, which one will go furthest to improving this team from day 1? It's got to be a big target for Brady. Especially with Gronk not liable to be back to health soon.

This almost perfectly reflects my viewpoint. Well, and succinctly, put.

 

[mayoclinic]

Fair enough. I will sign off with this "epic fail" draft:

Rnd One - Devin McCourty
Rnd Two - Rob Gronkowski
Rnd Two - Jermaine Cunningham
Rnd Two - Brandon Spikes
Rnd Three - Taylor Price
Rnd Four - Aaron Hernandez

The lack of OL and DL did not make this draft a fail.

I thought it was clear that I was referring to this year. My bad if I was unclear.

 

[manxman2601]

I thought it was clear that I was referring to this year. My bad if I was unclear.

I was only joking because you and I tend to have this very reasonable philosophical debate every year.

Edit: I don't know if you were on here back then, I wasn't, but if I was to go back to that year, what were you saying prior to that draft? I'm asking purely out of genuine curiosity. In no way is this an attempt at a gotcha!

 

[mayoclinic]

I was only joking because you and I tend to have this very reasonable philosophical debate every year.

Edit: I don't know if you were on here back then, I wasn't, but if I was to go back to that year, what were you saying prior to that draft? I'm asking purely out of genuine curiosity. In no way is this an attempt at a gotcha!

Sorry, I've been tied up for a bit and just got free for a few minutes.

2010 was a long time ago, draft-wise. They went into that draft with picks #22, 44, 47 and 58 in the first 2 rounds. My big "coup" was that I predicted that the Pats might very well take a DB at 22, when almost everyone was projecting them to take a pass rusher like Brandon Graham, Sergio Kindle or Jerry Hughes. I thought that the evolution of the passing game demanded more depth at DB and that the "nickel back" was essentially a starter. I was hoping that Joe Haden (poor 40 time) or Earl Thomas might slip. I thought they would take a TE, and Gronk and Ahern were both on my radar along with Jimmy Graham, but I didn't expect them to double dip. I was a big proponent of Carlos Dunlap in that draft, and wanted him badly; I was very upset when we took Jermaine Cunningham ahead of him at 53. Other guys who I liked in that draft included Greg Hardy, Sean Lee, Jared Veldheer, CJ Spilller, Jason Pierre-Paul and Linval Joseph.

 

[mayoclinic]

I was only joking because you and I tend to have this very reasonable philosophical debate every year.

In general, I believe in building around the lines, and in building from the "inside out" (up the middle) rather than from the periphery. So it's a common theme for me to want linemen. But in general, I tend to look at individual prospects and try and determine whether I would value them with a first round pick in the vicinity of where the Pats are picking, regardless of position or absolute need. I generally don't believe in taking WRs or RBs in the 1st round, as I think you can get great values day 2 or 3; RBs are very fungible, and have a short shelf life, and WRs are generally hard to project and take a while to develop.

Right now I have TE Eric Ebron, DE Trent Murphy, and DT Timmy Jernigan all as 1st round values around where the Pats pick. I'd have a tough time choosing between them. Ra'Shede Hageman has some inconsistency issues, but is also in the mix. I don't consider Travis Swanson a 1st round prospect; I'm not yet sure about David Yankey. I'm also not sure about Stephon Tuitt. Louis Nix probably is, but I want more than just a run-stuffing DT. JMHO.

 

[manxman2601]

Sorry, I've been tied up for a bit and just got free for a few minutes.

2010 was a long time ago, draft-wise. They went into that draft with picks #22, 44, 47 and 58 in the first 2 rounds. My big "coup" was that I predicted that the Pats might very well take a DB at 22, when almost everyone was projecting them to take a pass rusher like Brandon Graham, Sergio Kindle or Jerry Hughes. I thought that the evolution of the passing game demanded more depth at DB and that the "nickel back" was essentially a starter. I was hoping that Joe Haden (poor 40 time) or Earl Thomas might slip. I thought they would take a TE, and Gronk and Ahern were both on my radar along with Jimmy Graham, but I didn't expect them to double dip. I was a big proponent of Carlos Dunlap in that draft, and wanted him badly; I was very upset when we took Jermaine Cunningham ahead of him at 53. Other guys who I liked in that draft included Greg Hardy, Sean Lee, Jared Veldheer, CJ Spilller, Jason Pierre-Paul and Linval Joseph.

some very good names there.

In general, I believe in building around the lines, and in building from the "inside out" (up the middle) rather than from the periphery. So it's a common theme for me to want linemen. But in general, I tend to look at individual prospects and try and determine whether I would value them with a first round pick in the vicinity of where the Pats are picking, regardless of position or absolute need. I generally don't believe in taking WRs or RBs in the 1st round, as I think you can get great values day 2 or 3; RBs are very fungible, and have a short shelf life, and WRs are generally hard to project and take a while to develop.

Right now I have TE Eric Ebron, DE Trent Murphy, and DT Timmy Jernigan all as 1st round values around where the Pats pick. I'd have a tough time choosing between them. Ra'Shede Hageman has some inconsistency issues, but is also in the mix. I don't consider Travis Swanson a 1st round prospect; I'm not yet sure about David Yankey. I'm also not sure about Stephon Tuitt. Louis Nix probably is, but I want more than just a run-stuffing DT. JMHO.

I've taken interior OL off my first round list. I still like Swanson the best because he feels like a Patriot player but back in the 2nd or 3rd now. I haven't drilled down enough to get an absolute feel for where I grade people.

 

[mayoclinic]

I've taken interior OL off my first round list. I still like Swanson the best because he feels like a Patriot player but back in the 2nd or 3rd now. I haven't drilled down enough to get an absolute feel for where I grade people.

David Yankey is a borderline 1st round pick to me, but I'm more comfortable with him in the 2nd, and I think there will be other guys who are more clearly worth taking at 29, if we stay there.

 

[captain stone]

No I meant Jake Ballard. if he's back to full fitness, there's little difference between he and Chandler.

Oh OK. While there's not a lot of difference btwn Ballard & Chandler, I would still much prefer
Chandler because of his superior pass-catching abilities that mitigate whatever he surrenders
in blocking abilities to Ballard, and would thusly pay somewhat more for him.

 

[captain stone]

Fair enough. I will sign off with this "epic fail" draft:

Rnd One - Devin McCourty
Rnd Two - Rob Gronkowski
Rnd Two - Jermaine Cunningham
Rnd Two - Brandon Spikes
Rnd Three - Taylor Price
Rnd Four - Aaron Hernandez

The lack of OL and DL did not make this draft a fail.

How good would that draft have been had Bill done the smart thing and taken Golden Tate
at 52 instead of the over-drafted (by at least a round & a half) Jerry Cunnyham?