McDaniels Gameplan flawed

[Oswlek]

I don't care what the stats say. Philly has quality DBs & poor LBs. The strength is their pass defense. That's my opinion.

OK.........

So, your opinion is prevailing truth even if it is not backed by anything factual? And the simple formation of your opinion - whether it is based on reality - is enough of a foundation to criticize whomever your please?

What a great world you live in! :bricks:

 

[ATippett56]

I agree with Bakes. There was something SERIOUSLY WRONG with the offensive gameplan last night.

I checked YPA and it was much lower than all our other games. We had long sustained drives designed to tire out the opposing defense, but that never happened as the Eagles had more stops in the second half than in the first. Typically this Patriots team moves down field faster with big chunks, and then gets the ball back to score again.

Why did we only have a few possessions in the first half? Not only because of the onsides kick (the Eagles went 3 and out there after all) but because of the dink and dunk offense.

Now, I'm not opposed to 5 wide sets, but using it continually reeks of desperation. When we went to having Maroney in the backfield, Brady had a lot of time to throw especially on playfakes.

I seriously thought the Patriots best offensive game plan of recent memory was a balanced offensive attack against the Washington Redskins. With Maroney in the backfield, the formation demands the defense to play honest. Also, Kaczur needs to step up his pass protection because Brady was decked several times last night.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Contact at the line is not pass interference!

Give some credit to the Eagles secondary!

It's not the same gameplan we've had all year. There's been a healthy mix of run in games prior to last night. This gameplan was perfect for the Vikings. Not against Lito Sheppard & Co.


We won despite of the gameplan & because of Tom Brady.

Holding is a penalty at the line of scrimmage or anywhere else. And that was one example of a dozen of pass interference.

I will give the Eagles secondary credit for what they did. I don't have a problem with any defense doing what they can. I have a big problem with the officials ignoring it, and then calling pass interference on Moss.

The game plan would have put another 14 points on the board with just two things different. Moss catches the long pass to him, which hit his hands. Second, the refs don't call a tick tack call on him.

Throw in all the other penalties the Eagles committed, and the dropped passes of the Pats WRs, and you have, gasp, a BLOWOUT, which unfortunately just didn't develop.

As far as your absurd idea that you will simply ignore reality and say that the strength of the Eagles is against the pass and not the run, I will let your erroneous words speak for themselves. No point in arguing with somebody who chooses to ignore reality in favor of opinion.

 

[Deus Irae]

So, you think that because they scored on every offensive play in the 1st half that the game plan wasn't flawed and couldn't have been better?

Sorry, but that tells me you are the one that is HIGH.

Also, before you saw about Moss dropping the one pass, I suggest you watch the play again. He was expecting it to his LEFT shoulder, not his right one. So he had to adjust at the last second.. Not an easy adjustment to make.

ANd no. sorry, the offensive plan wasn't fine. It was flawed. It opened Brady up to more hits. It led to more 3rd and longs needing to be converted. And it willingly made the Pats one dimensional. And while people want to point out that Philly's pass defense is ranked 23rd, I also want to submit that Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown are two of the better CBs in the league and that Brown missed 5 games this year.

At least in other games, the Pats have come out with different variations of the 3, 4, and 5 wide sets. Last night, there were 2. And they just ran the same routes over and over again. I am all for execution, but it cost the Pats.

Also, it was well know that Johnson is a blitz happy guy. Having some screens in earlier in the game would have changed the Eagles philosphy and forced them into different coverages.

Your argument is beneath you, which is what happens when you focus too much on trying to get a "gotcha" and not enough on actually paying attention to the posts and games. Let's start with Moss:

Go back and watch it again. He makes 3 adjustments on the route. The first adjustment occurs when he realizes that he cut in too far and has to angle outward on his deep break. He then adjusts which shoulder he's looking over to catch the ball only to have to switch back because his adjustment was wrong. The ball then hits him right in the hands but he drops it.

As for what Johnson is famous for, let's try this again.... 3 first half possessions, 2 touchdowns and a field goal. Clearly, the Patriots' coaching staff knew what to expect enough to counter and exploit it. It wasn't the fault of the offensive gameplan that the Eagles recovered an onside kick and took one possession away from New England in the first half.

Then again, you're ignoring little details like Sheppard getting away with mauling Moss well beyond 5 yards, the receivers dropping passes or not turning in time, and stupid penalties which changed the yardage rubrick. You're having much more of an off day than the Patriots' offensive staff did last night. Nothing is perfect, but this game plan clearly was not "flawed" in any important sense.

Now...

1st drive, 3rd quarter. New England tries a run and gets just one yard on the gain. 2nd and 9, no big deal. Oops! execution/personnel problem. Light gets flagged for a false start, changing the situation to 2nd and 14. While that might have been in the game plan, I'm guessing it wasn't. The team is unable to get out of the 2nd and 14 hole and Hanson makes his first of 2 (OMG! 2 whole punts!) punts on the day.

2nd drive, 3rd quarter. The drive starts at the 10 yard line of New England. The Patriots take it the length of the field culminating in a touchdown pass to Moss. Oops! officials made a bad call. Moss is called for a phantom offensive P.I. and the touchdown is negated. This is later followed up by a missed field goal.

3rd drive, 3rd and 4th quarters. The drive begins with Maroney dropping an easy screen pass (Execution, not game plan). They recover from this and move the ball to the Eagles 33 yard line and a second and 4 situation, where passes to Welker, Watson and Moss fall incomplete and the ball was turned over on downs.

4th drive, 4th quarter. New England takes the ball on its 31 yard line and takes it the length of the field. The drive culminated in Maroney's rushing touchdown.

5th drive, 4th quarter. New England is just trying to run out the clock. Another Matt Light penalty is overcome and the Patriots were able to get a first down and run the clock down further. New England then runs Maroney into the line 3 times in order to kill the clock, and punts the ball to the Eagles with only 18 seconds left in the game and the Eagles out of timeouts.

6th drive, 4th quarter. After Sanders picks Feeley's final attempt, Brady takes a knee.

The offensive game plan was fine. There were some execution issues, a bad penalty call and a low amount of drives overall. The problems with this team last night were on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I seriously thought the Patriots best offensive game plan of recent memory was a balanced offensive attack against the Washington Redskins. With Maroney in the backfield, the formation demands the defense to play honest. Also, Kaczur needs to step up his pass protection because Brady was decked several times last night.

Agreed. The Pats gameplan against the Skins was brilliant. They punched the Skins in the mouth with the running game early, forcing them to respect it. That opened up the passing game for the rest of the match. Result, huge win 52-7. I'm guessing the Pats were just afraid of using the same formula for success twice?? But if it ain't broke...

 

[DaBruinz]

Your argument is beneath you, which is what happens when you focus too much on trying to get a "gotcha" and not enough on actually paying attention to the posts and games. Let's start with Moss:

OH boy.. here we go AGAIN. Listen and listen good. Maybe YOU should follow your own advice because its clear that you don't.

The FACT remains that the Offense was NOT great last night and you are fool if you think it was. The Game plan was VANILLA. Basic. NOT complex. And it actually made it EASIER for the Philly defense to defend against.

Go back and watch it again. He makes 3 adjustments on the route. The first adjustment occurs when he realizes that he cut in too far and has to angle outward on his deep break. He then adjusts which shoulder he's looking over to catch the ball only to have to switch back because his adjustment was wrong. The ball then hits him right in the hands but he drops it.

OR, god forbid, Brady threw it to the WRONG SHOULDER and Moss had to adjust at the last second. The other things weren't adjustments, they were the route.. Moss didn't look over his shoulder 3 times. He looked over his left shoulder and then snapped his head around to the right just as the ball is getting to his hands..

Yes, he dropped it, but it wasn't to the shoulder he expected.

As for what Johnson is famous for, let's try this again.... 3 first half possessions, 2 touchdowns and a field goal. Clearly, the Patriots' coaching staff knew what to expect enough to counter and exploit it. It wasn't the fault of the offensive gameplan that the Eagles recovered an onside kick and took one possession away from New England in the first half.

Did you even WATCH SB38? Or did you jump on the bandwagon last year? Johnson is known for his blitzing. That's fact. Its COMMON KNOWLEDGE. Hell, Madden only spewed it about a dozen times last night in case anyone didn't know already.

BTW, do you always make an arse of yourself by throwing in things that have NO BEARING on the discussion at hand. You are correct that the onside kick had no bearing on the Pats offensive game plan. But I didn't say it did and your dumb for mentioning it.

Then again, you're ignoring little details like Sheppard getting away with mauling Moss well beyond 5 yards, the receivers dropping passes or not turning in time, and stupid penalties which changed the yardage rubrick. You're having much more of an off day than the Patriots' offensive staff did last night. Nothing is perfect, but this game plan clearly was not "flawed" in any important sense.

Nice of you to talk out your arse again. I haven't ignored ANYTHING. But you go ahead and delude yourself into thinking that. You've deluded yourself into thinking that the Pats offense wasn't a problem last night and that the game plan was perfect.

Why don't you go back and watch some of the other games and how successful the Pats have been. Its not been because they ran the same 4 plays over and over again. It was because they ran a variety of different plays and formations, consistently keeping the defense off-guard.

Now...

1st drive, 3rd quarter. New England tries a run and gets just one yard on the gain. 2nd and 9, no big deal. Oops! execution/personnel problem. Light gets flagged for a false start, changing the situation to 2nd and 14. While that might have been in the game plan, I'm guessing it wasn't. The team is unable to get out of the 2nd and 14 hole and Hanson makes his first of 2 (OMG! 2 whole punts!) punts on the day.

2nd drive, 3rd quarter. The drive starts at the 10 yard line of New England. The Patriots take it the length of the field culminating in a touchdown pass to Moss. Oops! officials made a bad call. Moss is called for a phantom offensive P.I. and the touchdown is negated. This is later followed up by a missed field goal.

3rd drive, 3rd and 4th quarters. The drive begins with Maroney dropping an easy screen pass (Execution, not game plan). They recover from this and move the ball to the Eagles 33 yard line and a second and 4 situation, where passes to Welker, Watson and Moss fall incomplete and the ball was turned over on downs.

4th drive, 4th quarter. New England takes the ball on its 31 yard line and takes it the length of the field. The drive culminated in Maroney's rushing touchdown.

5th drive, 4th quarter. New England is just trying to run out the clock. Another Matt Light penalty is overcome and the Patriots were able to get a first down and run the clock down further. New England then runs Maroney into the line 3 times in order to kill the clock, and punts the ball to the Eagles with only 18 seconds left in the game and the Eagles out of timeouts.

6th drive, 4th quarter. Brady takes a knee.

The offensive game plan was fine. There were some execution issues, a bad penalty call and a low amount of drives overall. The problems with this team last night were on the defensive side of the ball.

Dues Irae, your break down was un-needed and, honestly, worthless, because you choose to see only what you want. You ignore what has gotten the Pats success previously and act like the game plan couldn't have been BETTER.

While the defense had issues, I believe it was also a flawed game plan, but also a lack of adjustments. I didn't see the Pats go into Man coverage last night. Nor did they press the receivers. The Pats kept giving up the IN cuts.

 

[Deus Irae]

Agreed. The Pats gameplan against the Skins was brilliant. They punched the Skins in the mouth with the running game early, forcing them to respect it. That opened up the passing game for the rest of the match. Result, huge win 52-7. I'm guessing the Pats were just afraid of using the same formula for success twice?? But if it ain't broke...

Washington wasn't going to bring a lot of blitzes. That makes a big difference, and you're overlooking that. The Eagles blitz a lot, against both the run and the pass, while Washington has been mostly using a 2 deep shell and rushing mainly 4 rather than blitzing a lot.

 

[DaBruinz]

Washington wasn't going to bring a lot of blitzes. That makes a big difference, and you're overlooking that. The Eagles blitz a lot, against both the run and the pass, while Washington has been mostly using a 2 deep shell and rushing mainly 4 rather than blitzing a lot.

How do you beat the blitz? Hmm.. WR and RB Screens? Slants???

You force the defense back on its heels by using its plays against them..The Pats made adjustments, offensively, going into the 2nd half, but its stuff that should have been in to begin with.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Washington wasn't going to bring a lot of blitzes. That makes a big difference, and you're overlooking that. The Eagles blitz a lot, against both the run and the pass, while Washington has been mostly using a 2 deep shell and rushing mainly 4 rather than blitzing a lot.

You're right, Philadelphia did do a lot more blitzing than Washington. But the fact remains that the Pats made their offense one dimensional pass only. An effective running game traditionally works well against the blitz. Let the overeager Eagles defenders run past the play, and hit them up the gut with the run. Screen passes would also have been useful to counter the blitz. Neither of those things happened with any frequency on Sunday.

The Patriots offense in the first half was very good. But it wilted in the second half. This I believe is due to an incomplete, and perhaps as OP suggested, flawed offensive gameplan. Perhaps McDaniels next gameplan should incorporate more of what has worked in the past, utilizing some successful elements from the Washington or Buffalo gameplan for instance.

 

[Oswlek]

You're right, Philadelphia did do a lot more blitzing than Washington. But the fact remains that the Pats made their offense one dimensional pass only. An effective running game traditionally works well against the blitz. Let the overeager Eagles defenders run past the play, and hit them up the gut with the run. Screen passes would also have been useful to counter the blitz. Neither of those things happened with any frequency on Sunday.

The Patriots offense in the first half was very good. But it wilted in the second half. This I believe is due to an incomplete, and perhaps as OP suggested, flawed offensive gameplan. Perhaps McDaniels next gameplan should incorporate more of what has worked in the past, utilizing some successful elements from the Washington or Buffalo gameplan for instance.

The Eagles mostly blitz up the middle. How do you run up the gut when there are tons of people there?

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I posted this on another thread, but I what to repeat it.

I agree with almost all of the points made here, but I would like to add one more point.

I think our team was beginning to believe the hype. I say that because of the play calling in the first half. 4 wide-outs, no running back -- and an attitude of hey try to stop us.

The Eagles came to play and were hitting hard on both sides of the ball. But if you know what's coming, you can defend it much better. We need to rethink the play calling which will open up guys like Moss in such a game.

I don't know if anyone else was thinking this, but by the time the second quarter started I was saying to myself, OK if they will not give you the deep ball how about some running and screen plays.

We cannot become a one dimensional team -- pass, pass and pass some more. We have got to get our running game in gear and start mixing up the plays.

But I also believe the Eagles played "over their heads" last night. Not to take anything away from them. And their lines looked pretty darn good -- we could not get to the QB. I think that bothered me more than anything about the game -- get in there guys.
Edit/Delete Message

gimme a break, they scored 24 points in the first half, philly had an extra possession with the onside kick and the pats had a td called back.

the defense and special teams were the problem. do you really want baker and jackson in the defensive backfield???

baker was a major reason the pats lost the afc championship game.

 

[Deus Irae]

OH boy.. here we go AGAIN. Listen and listen good. Maybe YOU should follow your own advice because its clear that you don't.

The FACT remains that the Offense was NOT great last night and you are fool if you think it was. The Game plan was VANILLA. Basic. NOT complex. And it actually made it EASIER for the Philly defense to defend against.

The team put up plenty of points and would have put up more if not for botched execution and a bad penalty call. I never said the offense was "fantastic" (which was what someone asserted on a different thread), I have said it was fine. However, the problems on offense were execution, not game plan. And, for the record, a VANILLA game plan, as you call it, does not equal a BAD game plan.

OR, god forbid, Brady threw it to the WRONG SHOULDER and Moss had to adjust at the last second. The other things weren't adjustments, they were the route.. Moss didn't look over his shoulder 3 times. He looked over his left shoulder and then snapped his head around to the right just as the ball is getting to his hands..

Yes, he dropped it, but it wasn't to the shoulder he expected.

You got this wrong, admit it. Either way, it was an execution question and not a game plan problem anyway. Moss ran the route poorly and got messed up while trying to adjust. It happens.

Did you even WATCH SB38? Or did you jump on the bandwagon last year? Johnson is known for his blitzing. That's fact. Its COMMON KNOWLEDGE. Hell, Madden only spewed it about a dozen times last night in case anyone didn't know already.

BTW, do you always make an arse of yourself by throwing in things that have NO BEARING on the discussion at hand. You are correct that the onside kick had no bearing on the Pats offensive game plan. But I didn't say it did and your dumb for mentioning it.

Wow, now you're just being ridiculous. You're pissing about a game plan that produced 17 out of a possible 21 points in the first half, I noted that the likely reason it ONLY produced 17 was the Eagles pulling off the onsides kick. Had the Patriots recovered that kick, the game plan you're bemoaning may well have ended the game by halftime. As for the sacks and your crying about the blitzing, the Patriots scored a TD, kicked a field goal and were forced to punt on the 3 possessions involving a sack. Again, the game plan was fine.

Nice of you to talk out your arse again. I haven't ignored ANYTHING. But you go ahead and delude yourself into thinking that. You've deluded yourself into thinking that the Pats offense wasn't a problem last night and that the game plan was perfect.

Why don't you go back and watch some of the other games and how successful the Pats have been. Its not been because they ran the same 4 plays over and over again. It was because they ran a variety of different plays and formations, consistently keeping the defense off-guard.

You're being ridiculous. Even with the limited number of drives last night, the Patriots would have scored 38 points has the official not blown that pass interference call, and 31 of the points would have been by the offense. Now, I don't know when you started getting the notion that a 31 point performance was bad, but you're now starting to sound exactly like the people you normally blast for spouting such nonsense. That alone should have made you re-think your position.

Dues Irae, your break down was un-needed and, honestly, worthless, because you choose to see only what you want. You ignore what has gotten the Pats success previously and act like the game plan couldn't have been BETTER.

While the defense had issues, I believe it was also a flawed game plan, but also a lack of adjustments. I didn't see the Pats go into Man coverage last night. Nor did they press the receivers. The Pats kept giving up the IN cuts.

No, your argument was simply crap. It's really no more complicated than that, as I've shown with the breakdown. The game plan exploited the Eagles' penchant for blitzing and resulted in a 31-28 victory despite a very poor defensive showing. As for the last 3 lines of your post above, they weren't a part of McDaniels' game plan. When you accuse others of putting in "un-needed and honestly, worthless" stuff, you should probably not be doing exactly that just one paragraph later. It makes you look silly.

 

[Deus Irae]

How do you beat the blitz? Hmm.. WR and RB Screens? Slants???

You force the defense back on its heels by using its plays against them..The Pats made adjustments, offensively, going into the 2nd half, but its stuff that should have been in to begin with.

For crying out loud, are you sure that you're the real DaBruinz? They scored on every drive in the first half and got 17 of a possible 21 points. If anything, the 'adjustments' weakened their output, as the offense was LESS successful after your vaunted adjustments were made. Seriously, is this someone else hijacking DaBruinz's screen name for a joke?

 

[VJCPatriot]

The Eagles mostly blitz up the middle. How do you run up the gut when there are tons of people there?

Draw play. Let em run by you first, then attack the space they've just vacated. It's pretty basic.

 

[Oswlek]

Draw play. Let em run by you first, then attack the space they've just vacated. It's pretty basic.

Try to visualize the play for a second. The Eagles would regularly have 4-5 defenders right in the area that the RB would run. The success level on this play wouldn't be any higher than a traditional run.

You did notice that NE ran one draw all night that was stuffed, right? And that they never ran it again afterward? Seems pretty basic, right?

 

[bakes781]

\Cousin, The way to get Randy back involved would have been crossing patterns like T.O. runs. I guarantee this is the right formula because now every NFL team that plays us will have their safeties back 20 yards like the Eagles. Of course Welker had a buck and a half underneath so at the end of the game, he got them.
And then if the game plan is to run, Maroney has a big game with the safeties so far off. Good game plan by the Eagles, but just wait until Maddens' "blueprint" has got a BB adjustment in it.
The way to stop this and get Randy room is crossing patterns. BB will adjust to this when the safeties drop the next time. I think you will see them run Gaffney deeper in his slot position more consistently and leave Welker short. When they come up for Welker, Moss is running across the safeties and Stallworth and Gaffney go deep with no safety help.
Why they didn't do that, I do not know. All of Moss's catches were "ins". He breaks them over the middle and he is running free. Its all an adjustment to a good Johnson "D" scheme last night. Give them credit but now BB will know what to do....Fool me once..........
DW Toys

Randy Moss' game isn't to gain a lot of YAC. His game is strictly deep down the sideline. The Patriots didn't HAVE to run the ball, but by not forcing the Eagles to respect the run made it very easy for them to get after Brady.

 

[Oswlek]

Randy Moss' game isn't to gain a lot of YAC. His game is strictly deep down the sideline. The Patriots didn't HAVE to run the ball, but by not foring the Eagles to respect the run made it very easy for them to get after Brady.

Moss may not be a yac threat any longer, but the bolded statement is inaccurate. Moss gets a llarge portion of his yardage on slants and come back routes.

NE set up Philly perfectly to kill them with screens in the second half, which they almost did. Every one that was caught went for good yardage (including the Welker one that went to the 4) and three others were dropped that would have gone for at least 7 yards, if not 20+.

 

[bakes781]

NE set up Philly perfectly to kill them with screens in the second half, which they almost did. Every one that was caught went for good yardage (including the Welker one that went to the 4) and three others were dropped that would have gone for at least 7 yards, if not 20+.

Why would they have been any less effective in the 1st?

I thought the officiating was fine. We never got a complete look at that Moss penalty to be sure he didn't push off IMO. He in fact did get away with a push off earlier in the game that I recall.

 

[Oswlek]

Why would they have been any less effective in the 1st?

I thought the officiating was fine. We never got a complete look at that Moss penalty to be sure he didn't push off IMO. He in fact did get away with a push off earlier in the game that I recall.

I was looking for them in the 1st, but NE did plenty well without them. But the point was that a screen is not a run.

 

[pats1yes]

gimme a break, they scored 24 points in the first half, philly had an extra possession with the onside kick and the pats had a td called back.

the defense and special teams were the problem. do you really want baker and jackson in the defensive backfield???

baker was a major reason the pats lost the afc championship game.

We are all entitled to our own opinion. So, in my opinion, our team needs to move beyond the thought -- we are the best and can do as we choose. But, in order to continue to do so, we need to mix it up. And yes, I do consider us to be the best in the NFL right now.

I did not like the offensive calls last night -- except during the 4th quarter. Simple, you take away the long ball, we screen and run. Then when they cover, you hit them with the long ball. Simple football.

But to continue to say, stop us if you can. Guess what, they did for the most part and we were lucky to come out with a win.

We are flat out good, but not good enough to show ourselves and expect to beat everyone.