Mayock tidbit on Watt

[Snake Eyes]

JJ Watt weighed in at 290. Is he big enough for our scheme? BB has never drafted a 3-4 DE in the first two rounds that was below 300.

Aside from what BB thinks, I fail to see how someone can be a fit at 300lbs but inadequate at 290lbs. You can have a player bulk up and add weight but that will make them less explosive off the snap.

 

[MaineMan]

Aside from what BB thinks, I fail to see how someone can be a fit at 300lbs but inadequate at 290lbs. You can have a player bulk up and add weight but that will make them less explosive off the snap.

The maximum weight I'd seen listed for him pre-Combine was 292#, so at least he hasn't lost anything significant while working out. If he'd weighed in at 280 or so, I might've had some concern that it was a possible demonstration of preference for a more attacking role.

 

[Off The Grid]

Going to re-evaluate Watt. Wasn't too impressed with him at first but I've seen some good analysis itt.

As a guy who's also not afraid to change his mind, I salute you, sir.

I've been high on Watt since OCTOBER...but at this point, yes, I think he's eclipsed #17, whereas a couple of Super Beasts that I like are still poised to fall into our laps at #28 and #60 or #74 or so...

 

[jays52]

JJ Watt weighed in at 290. Is he big enough for our scheme? BB has never drafted a 3-4 DE in the first two rounds that was below 300.

290 isn't bad. It's about 15-20 pounds away from ideal, but putting 20 pounds onto a 6'6 body is like an average guy gaining 5-7 pounds of lean muscle. It's not a big deal, and he's probably conditioned to be lighter/more explosive to do better in the drills. Combine training and football training are two very different things, especially for a position like his.

 

[Off The Grid]

Aside from what BB thinks, I fail to see how someone can be a fit at 300lbs but inadequate at 290lbs. You can have a player bulk up and add weight but that will make them less explosive off the snap.

Yup.

The maximum weight I'd seen listed for him pre-Combine was 292#, so at least he hasn't lost anything significant while working out. If he'd weighed in at 280 or so, I might've had some concern that it was a possible demonstration of preference for a more attacking role.

Yup, Yup.

Watt is a FORCE.

 

[bucky]

Aside from what BB thinks, I fail to see how someone can be a fit at 300lbs but inadequate at 290lbs. You can have a player bulk up and add weight but that will make them less explosive off the snap.

Not sure how big Ty Warren was at draft time, but Pioli drafted Tyson Jackson at 295 and Shaun Ellis - who was in the 280s.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Not sure how big Ty Warren was at draft time, but Pioli drafted Tyson Jackson at 295 and Shaun Ellis - who was in the 280s.

Combine weights:
Ty Warren: 307
Seymour: 299
Green: 272
Brace: 330
Wilfork: 323
LeKevin Smith: 316
Pryor: 319
Kareem Brown: 290
Marquis Hill: 307
Klecko: 283
Ethan Kelley: 298
David Nugent: 301

 

[MaineMan]

Combine weights:
Ty Warren: 307
Seymour: 299
Green: 272
Brace: 330
Wilfork: 323
LeKevin Smith: 316
Pryor: 319
Kareem Brown: 290
Marquis Hill: 307
Klecko: 283
Ethan Kelley: 298
David Nugent: 301

Sorted by draft position and including height (and a couple other entries):

6 Seymour: 299/ 6'6"
13 Ty Warren: 307/ 6'5"
21 Wilfork: 323/ 6'2"
40 Brace: 330/ 6'3"
63 Marquis Hill: 307/ 6'5"
117 Klecko: 283/ 5'11"
126 Green: 272/ 6'3"
127 Kareem Brown: 290/ 6'5"
161 Jeff Marriott: 300/ 6'4"
191 Jeremy Mincey: 260/ 6'3"
201 David Nugent: 301/ 6'4"
206 LeKevin Smith: 316/ 6'3"
207 Pryor: 319/ 6'1"
234 Darryl Richard: 290/ 6'4"
243 Ethan Kelley: 298/ 6'2"
247 Deaderick: 305/ 6'4"
248 Weston: 315/ 6'5"

 

[reflexblue]

I think hes heavy enough and hes only what 22 years old, he'll put on some more weight.

 

[Sciz]

Watt putting on 20 pounds is going to be easier than Cameron Jordan putting on the same amount, which he also needs. In other news, Marcel Dareus is Ron Brace height and approaching Ron Brace weight.

 

[DaBruinz]

I may be mistaken, but I believe that the Pats have not drafted a single Tom Condon player since Ben Watson. If that is the case, then there is a good chance that Watt may not be on their radar despite everything.

 

[Sciz]

I may be mistaken, but I believe that the Pats have not drafted a single Tom Condon player since Ben Watson. If that is the case, then there is a good chance that Watt may not be on their radar despite everything.

True, and that's in the back of my mind, but he's such a great fit!

 

[jays52]

I know. I just can't believe that an organization that well run and such a freaking machine would be petty enough to pass on such a player because of choice of agent.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Interesting about Condon based clients. I wonder if it is just against him or all of the Creative Artists Agency?

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'd be happy with either Watt or Jordon with our first pick, but I have to wonder. Has everyone forgotten that BOTH Ty Warren AND Mike Wright are going to be back next season? Have you all forgotten that since 2005 Warren was the best Pats Dlineman all those years Richard Seymour was going to Hawaii. Have you all forgotten that Mike Wright had 5 sacks in 7 games and was playing the best all round football of his career. Have we all forgotten that Ron Brace was coming on before his injury and Gerrard Warren was very solid at DE all year.

1. There's no guarantee Ty Warren comes back 100% and he will be pushing 30.
2. Even if we get Ty Warren. The position opposite from him has remained in flux ever since we lost Seymour. G. Warren is mediocre stopgap at best.
3. Wright is a situational player and has never been a starter for us and there's no guarantee he will come back.
4. Dline is a HUGE need for us. The Pats defense was at its best when it featured 3 1st round picks on the DL. NOT a coincidence.

I see the need for a guy like Watt or Jordan, but the Pats DL is going to be vastly improved over last season simply because of the players coming back from injury and another year's experience for the rest

Or so we hope. I like increasing the odds than relying on guys returning from injury.

Lets also not forget that the idea that our pick has to be slotted into this vision of the 2 gap 3-4 DE is no longer really valid. IIRC, Reiss reported that the Pats were in a 4 man front more than half the time?

That's the chicken or egg argument. Did the Pats use more sub-packages because they preferred to OR were they forced to use more sub-packages because they lacked the personnel to run base 3-4 effectively?

So I'd be fine with some DLman with excellent rushing skills that can come in as a rookie and be productive in passing situations, which is right now over 60% of the time, even if he would be somewhat "light in the pants" vs the run as a 3-4 2 gap DE

I don't even believe these so called 'light in the pants' arguments. Richard Seymour was 6'6 295. Watt 6'5.3 290. A whopping difference of 5 lbs. You really think with a pro training staff it wouldn't be possible for him to gain more weight and strength? If he shows in the drills that he can stand up in trenches at the POA that's the main thing I'm looking for. 5 lbs of weight is not a big deal.

On the other hand people are calling for us to draft Ballard when he weighed in at 262. Say huh? That's a 4-3 DE size if I ever saw it.

 

[dhamz]

I may be mistaken, but I believe that the Pats have not drafted a single Tom Condon player since Ben Watson. If that is the case, then there is a good chance that Watt may not be on their radar despite everything.

I wonder if a rookie wage scale would change that line of thinking by taking out most of the agent influence in the first contract.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I think there was an issue with Watson because at the time the Pats wanted an extra year negotiate4d on his contract. Now it's no longer an issue because the max number of years is stipulated by draft position. I don't think Watt's agent will matter if the Pats think he can become an excellent player for them.

 

[Sciz]

I think there was an issue with Watson because at the time the Pats wanted an extra year negotiate4d on his contract. Now it's no longer an issue because the max number of years is stipulated by draft position. I don't think Watt's agent will matter if the Pats think he can become an excellent player for them.

Condon is notorious for getting his clients more guaranteed money than other agents. If the Pats don't want to pay that extra, then there's an issue.

 

[meggett]

Condon is notorious for getting his clients more guaranteed money than other agents. If the Pats don't want to pay that extra, then there's an issue.

the way its looking now, it dosnt look like Watt is gonna make it to us anyway. would have to make it through Cleveland, San Fran, Dallas and Miami first.

 

[jays52]

the way its looking now, it dosnt look like Watt is gonna make it to us anyway. would have to make it through Cleveland, San Fran, Dallas and Miami first.

Cleveland's in the process of transitioning to the 43, which makes a player like Dareus particularly appealing. He's decent enough of a 34 fit to get bye through the transition but will really bloom in the 43. I take that off the list. San Fran needs help in a ton of spots and has good enough ends. Dallas is the real lynch pin. I'm praying they go skill position (which they should based on tendency and need). I'm expecting NE to jump MIA and JAX, both of which would jump on Watt if he were there.