Mayock tidbit on Watt

[Snake Eyes]

Yes, he's got the measurables and looked stout at the point of attack in the games I saw. I like him better than the much ballyhooed Phil Taylor for consistency.

If that's the case I'd like to grab him in the 2nd, I'd prefer him as a DE than JJ Watt, who I simply don't feel the love for.

 

[jays52]

not enough sand in the pants. Reminds me of mike wright..quick and disruptive. For some reason others here said they can't see it.

Christian Ballard will be the pick in the late 2nd, I believe.

I'm not buying the "not stout enough" talk. He's been asked to go upfield in his scheme, and that can lead to a lot of misnomers. Watch him against downblocking ends when they have a shift on forcing him into a 5 technique. The crack will show you how he can stand ground. Watch him against the kickout pull. He drops his hips, punches and the breastplate thumbs up, and gets a full lockout extension.

Does he need to get stronger? Yes. Can he become appreciably stronger (enormous ceiling) with his frame and work ethic? Absolutely. Nobody is going to be ready to come in and contribute at an NFL level in 2-gap this year with the exception of Fairley (even he is doubtful). The difference is that Watt has the tools AND technique. There's no one in this draft with Watt's size and frame (puppy with huge paws) with his multidirectional athleticism and post importantly technique. I know it's not cool to like the canonized prospect who shot gaps, but Watt is the real thing.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

If that's the case I'd like to grab him in the 2nd, I'd prefer him as a DE than JJ Watt, who I simply don't feel the love for.

Watt's issue is inexperience and strength, both correctable. But using the one early one late scenario mentioned above Jenkins would be a good choice to rotate with Watt as he develops.

 

[patfanken]

I'd be happy with either Watt or Jordon with our first pick, but I have to wonder. Has everyone forgotten that BOTH Ty Warren AND Mike Wright are going to be back next season? Have you all forgotten that since 2005 Warren was the best Pats Dlineman all those years Richard Seymour was going to Hawaii. Have you all forgotten that Mike Wright had 5 sacks in 7 games and was playing the best all round football of his career. Have we all forgotten that Ron Brace was coming on before his injury and Gerrard Warren was very solid at DE all year.

I see the need for a guy like Watt or Jordan, but the Pats DL is going to be vastly improved over last season simply because of the players coming back from injury and another year's experience for the rest

Lets also not forget that the idea that our pick has to be slotted into this vision of the 2 gap 3-4 DE is no longer really valid. IIRC, Reiss reported that the Pats were in a 4 man front more than half the time?

So I'd be fine with some DLman with excellent rushing skills that can come in as a rookie and be productive in passing situations, which is right now over 60% of the time, even if he would be somewhat "light in the pants" vs the run as a 3-4 2 gap DE

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'd be happy with either Watt or Jordon with our first pick, but I have to wonder. Has everyone forgotten that BOTH Ty Warren AND Mike Wright are going to be back next season? Have you all forgotten that since 2005 Warren was the best Pats Dlineman all those years Richard Seymour was going to Hawaii. Have you all forgotten that Mike Wright had 5 sacks in 7 games and was playing the best all round football of his career. Have we all forgotten that Ron Brace was coming on before his injury and Gerrard Warren was very solid at DE all year.

I see the need for a guy like Watt or Jordan, but the Pats DL is going to be vastly improved over last season simply because of the players coming back from injury and another year's experience for the rest

Lets also not forget that the idea that our pick has to be slotted into this vision of the 2 gap 3-4 DE is no longer really valid. IIRC, Reiss reported that the Pats were in a 4 man front more than half the time?

So I'd be fine with some DLman with excellent rushing skills that can come in as a rookie and be productive in passing situations, which is right now over 60% of the time, even if he would be somewhat "light in the pants" vs the run as a 3-4 2 gap DE

I keep wondering if Drake Nevis falls as far as some are speculating if BB would draft him for his ability to collapse the pocket and disrupt the backfield?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Watt's issue is inexperience and strength, both correctable. But using the one early one late scenario mentioned above Jenkins would be a good choice to rotate with Watt as he develops.

How many guys with as few starts as Watts has BB taken in the first round?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

How many guys with as few starts as Watts has BB taken in the first round?

I don't expect NE to take him, but I'd be okay with him.

 

[MaineMan]

I'd be happy with either Watt or Jordon with our first pick, but I have to wonder. Has everyone forgotten that BOTH Ty Warren AND Mike Wright are going to be back next season? Have you all forgotten that since 2005 Warren was the best Pats Dlineman all those years Richard Seymour was going to Hawaii. Have you all forgotten that Mike Wright had 5 sacks in 7 games and was playing the best all round football of his career. Have we all forgotten that Ron Brace was coming on before his injury and Gerrard Warren was very solid at DE all year.

I see the need for a guy like Watt or Jordan, but the Pats DL is going to be vastly improved over last season simply because of the players coming back from injury and another year's experience for the rest

Lets also not forget that the idea that our pick has to be slotted into this vision of the 2 gap 3-4 DE is no longer really valid. IIRC, Reiss reported that the Pats were in a 4 man front more than half the time?

So I'd be fine with some DLman with excellent rushing skills that can come in as a rookie and be productive in passing situations, which is right now over 60% of the time, even if he would be somewhat "light in the pants" vs the run as a 3-4 2 gap DE

I think this is jumping to a conclusion.

Reiss is probably accurate in reporting that the Pats were in 40-fronts 57% of the time. However, as much as I like and respect Reiss, I disagree with his assumption that extensive use of (sieve-like) 40-fronts was by design from the get-go and his implication that this is the way of the future for the Pats DL. I believe that this was forced on BB due to the lack of anything even close to appropriate 30-front personnel and no way to get more.

With Ty Warren coming back (hopefully healthy and productive), the Pats have a rare opportunity in this draft to acquire a player to restore a solid, 2-gap, run-stopping 30-front. I seriously doubt that BB passes this up.

 

[Off The Grid]

I'm not buying the "not stout enough" talk. He's been asked to go upfield in his scheme, and that can lead to a lot of misnomers. Watch him against downblocking ends when they have a shift on forcing him into a 5 technique. The crack will show you how he can stand ground. Watch him against the kickout pull. He drops his hips, punches and the breastplate thumbs up, and gets a full lockout extension.

Does he need to get stronger? Yes. Can he become appreciably stronger (enormous ceiling) with his frame and work ethic? Absolutely. Nobody is going to be ready to come in and contribute at an NFL level in 2-gap this year with the exception of Fairley (even he is doubtful). The difference is that Watt has the tools AND technique. There's no one in this draft with Watt's size and frame (puppy with huge paws) with his multidirectional athleticism and post importantly technique. I know it's not cool to like the canonized prospect who shot gaps, but Watt is the real thing.

Absolutely magnificent Scouting Report, sir.

 

[WhiZa]

Will he even fall out of the top 10? Makes it even less likely we'd be able to select him

 

[Off The Grid]

I'd be happy with either Watt or Jordon with our first pick, but I have to wonder. Has everyone forgotten that BOTH Ty Warren AND Mike Wright are going to be back next season? Have you all forgotten that since 2005 Warren was the best Pats Dlineman all those years Richard Seymour was going to Hawaii. Have you all forgotten that Mike Wright had 5 sacks in 7 games and was playing the best all round football of his career. Have we all forgotten that Ron Brace was coming on before his injury and Gerrard Warren was very solid at DE all year.

I see the need for a guy like Watt or Jordan, but the Pats DL is going to be vastly improved over last season simply because of the players coming back from injury and another year's experience for the rest

Lets also not forget that the idea that our pick has to be slotted into this vision of the 2 gap 3-4 DE is no longer really valid. IIRC, Reiss reported that the Pats were in a 4 man front more than half the time?

So I'd be fine with some DLman with excellent rushing skills that can come in as a rookie and be productive in passing situations, which is right now over 60% of the time, even if he would be somewhat "light in the pants" vs the run as a 3-4 2 gap DE

Simmer DOWN, Preacher!!

We didn't ALL forget Warren, Warren, and Company. In fact, I'm quite sure that most'f us've remembered them, as much as you'd evidently like to think that they're a secret that you and only you are aware of.

Speaking for myself ~ and repeating what I've said aplenty, my good man ~ I like all of those guys, and see them as exceptional depth.

Now, would I expect Ty Warren to return to his 2007 form by, say, the second half of this coming year, or the the beginning of 2012? Absolutely. I believe he'll be ALL the way back. But I think his chances of full recovery are actually improved by NOT asking him to jump back in into full time work: Let the man take it through the gears, as History has made clear is necessary.

Brandon Deaderick and Ron Brace look like they could become good players, and Gerard Warren is an excellent role player, as are Mike Wright and Myron Pryor.

But do you want to count on those guys to "patch" an hodgepodge starting line up together with??

Not ME. Give me 2 ~ TWO ~ Full Throttle BEASTS, please.

And hold the mustard.

 

[bucky]

I'm not buying the "not stout enough" talk. He's been asked to go upfield in his scheme, and that can lead to a lot of misnomers. Watch him against downblocking ends when they have a shift on forcing him into a 5 technique. The crack will show you how he can stand ground. Watch him against the kickout pull. He drops his hips, punches and the breastplate thumbs up, and gets a full lockout extension.

Sorry, I'm just not seeing any of this in watching the Ohio State game. Maybe there's some other tape that shows it?

Does he need to get stronger? Yes. Can he become appreciably stronger (enormous ceiling) with his frame and work ethic? Absolutely. Nobody is going to be ready to come in and contribute at an NFL level in 2-gap this year with the exception of Fairley (even he is doubtful). The difference is that Watt has the tools AND technique. There's no one in this draft with Watt's size and frame (puppy with huge paws) with his multidirectional athleticism and post importantly technique. I know it's not cool to like the canonized prospect who shot gaps, but Watt is the real thing.

Actually, I think Cameron Jordan is a lot closer to being ready to step in. One thing I did is went back to find some Alualu tape to see film of Jordan that is not "highlight reel". What I found most of the time is him either getting double teamed, or making plays. Obviously, he'd still need some 2-gap technique work. But IMO he's a lot closer to being a 3 down DL for the Pats than Watt. Of course I don't expect Jordan to be available at 17 either.

 

[bucky]

Now, would I expect Ty Warren to return to his 2007 form by, say, the second half of this coming year, or the the beginning of 2012? Absolutely. I believe he'll be ALL the way back. But I think his chances of full recovery are actually improved by NOT asking him to jump back in into full time work: Let the man take it through the gears, as History has made clear is necessary.

Ty Warren peaked in 2006 and has been on the decline ever since. Why in the world would you expect him to be back to 2007 form? He wasn't as good in 2008 or 2009. He is coming back from a serious injury, not having played an entire year. And he showed last season that football is no longer his #1 priority when he skipped OTAs to get his degree. IMO, Ty Warren is as likely to be cut as he is to regain his 2007 form - though the reality is most likely somewhere in between.

 

[sbpatfan]

I've been convinced on Watt since the OSU - Wiscy game. I won't be upset if he doesn't end up on the Pats, but I'll be thrilled if we manage to grab him.

 

[sbpatfan]

Ty Warren peaked in 2006 and has been on the decline ever since. Why in the world would you expect him to be back to 2007 form? He wasn't as good in 2008 or 2009. He is coming back from a serious injury, not having played an entire year. And he showed last season that football is no longer his #1 priority when he skipped OTAs to get his degree. IMO, Ty Warren is as likely to be cut as he is to regain his 2007 form - though the reality is most likely somewhere in between.

Yeah, I don't think Warren's head is in football. I wouldn't expect anything from him.

 

[MaineMan]

Ty Warren peaked in 2006 and has been on the decline ever since. Why in the world would you expect him to be back to 2007 form? He wasn't as good in 2008 or 2009. He is coming back from a serious injury, not having played an entire year. And he showed last season that football is no longer his #1 priority when he skipped OTAs to get his degree. IMO, Ty Warren is as likely to be cut as he is to regain his 2007 form - though the reality is most likely somewhere in between.

Warren may have been in decline, but he still averaged twice as many LoS tackles as any guy on the 2010 DL not named Wilfork.

 

[jays52]

Sorry, I'm just not seeing any of this in watching the Ohio State game. Maybe there's some other tape that shows it?



Actually, I think Cameron Jordan is a lot closer to being ready to step in. One thing I did is went back to find some Alualu tape to see film of Jordan that is not "highlight reel". What I found most of the time is him either getting double teamed, or making plays. Obviously, he'd still need some 2-gap technique work. But IMO he's a lot closer to being a 3 down DL for the Pats than Watt. Of course I don't expect Jordan to be available at 17 either.

I haven't seen the Ohio State game, so I'll def have to look into that. That said, I think that a lot of the washing knocks come against the zone where the player is responsible for shuffling with the linemen and frequently gives the appearance of being washed. This is especially true for the end who should strings things out as much as possible to force a backside or playside a gap cutback into the teeth of the pursuit.

I have a lot to see of Jordan to develop an opinion, but right now think he's a decent player.

 

[Off The Grid]

Now, would I expect Ty Warren to return to his 2007 form by, say, the second half of this coming year, or the the beginning of 2012? Absolutely. I believe he'll be ALL the way back. But I think his chances of full recovery are actually improved by NOT asking him to jump back in into full time work: Let the man take it through the gears, as History has made clear is necessary.

Ty Warren peaked in 2006 and has been on the decline ever since. Why in the world would you expect him to be back to 2007 form? He wasn't as good in 2008 or 2009.

Do you suppose that that's why I didn't say "2009" form?

I love it when guys attack my point by confirming it.

***

There's a school of thinking ~ one which I attend regularly ~ which suspects that Warren was worn out and hurting, ere the last two years: 2008 and 2009.

And I go a step further ~ I'm not the only one ~ and suggest that this injury was a blessing in disguise: an opportunity for him to Shut Down for awhile, and let the WHOLE body heal.

Hence: My theory that he's poised to come back rejuvenated, AFTER he's had some time to take it back through the gears.

It's just a theory, my good man. And I've been wrong many times.

But, then: I usually court Long Shots.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Will he even fall out of the top 10? Makes it even less likely we'd be able to select him

My gut tells me Watt and Jordan will be gone by 17. I think we will have to move for either of these guys to be had.

 

[bucky]

Warren may have been in decline, but he still averaged twice as many LoS tackles as any guy on the 2010 DL not named Wilfork.

He had 1 TFL in 2009.