Mayock tidbit on Watt

[borg]

Wow! I didn't expect that at all! Watt's game is mostly power. Not speedrushing and not agility.I didn't expect him (and would still have supported him) if he didn't test well today.

OTOH, what a horrible couple days Robert Quinn is having. With all the time off Quinn had everyone was expecting him to light it up at the combine. He is costing himself wheelbarrows full of cash by the minute.

For a guy who was suspended for taking gifts from an agent, I think he should have left the diamond stud earrings at home for the combine.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

So, Mamula was maybe the first guy to train specifically for Combine drills and it showed up big time. Now everybody does it.

And Mamula was a solid player for four seasons whose career was cut short by knee injuries and who the Eagles way over-drafted as a pass-rushing DE. Is that what Sapp is predicting for Watt? That, based on his college production and Combine workouts, some 4-3 team is going to trade a 1st and two 2nds to get into the top ten and select him, expecting him to become the next perennial double-digit DE sackmeister?

Am I missing something?

Mike Mamula was drafted #7 overall and had a mid rounder type career when he wasn't injured. He never lived up to the hype. He was a workout warrior. I don't think watt is that. Mamula at best was good depth. Would you want to draft a mike mamula even @ 28 for the NEP?! One of his two best seasons 96' he had 8 sacks due largely because William Fuller was on the other side.

I dont think Mike mamula was the 1st. That would probably be Tony Mandarich he destroyed @ the combine by all accounts.

 

[jays52]

Just checked and Quinn was trained by API. I guess he's just not as agile as we all thought.

 

[borg]

Watt ran a 6.88 3-cone. Nearly .3 seconds faster than Quinn. What a freakazoid.

Can you post a link where you are getting the cone results?

 

[Deus Irae]

Mike Mamula was drafted #7 overall and had a mid rounder type career when he wasn't injured. He never lived up to the hype. He was a workout warrior. I don't think watt is that. Mamula at best was good depth. Would you want to draft a mike mamula even @ 28 for the NEP?! One of his two best seasons 96' he had 8 sacks due largely because William Fuller was on the other side.

I dont think Mike mamula was the 1st. That would probably be Tony Mandarich he destroyed @ the combine by all accounts.

The Myth of Mike Mamula - NYTimes.com

Blame the Eagles for playing a 250 pound player at end. Mamula should have been an outside linebacker for a 3-4 team.

 

[jays52]

I've got it on slingbox NFL network.

 

[Peachhead]

Can you post a link where you are getting the cone results?

I don't know where Jays found it. But this site has some numbers.

On edit: I just noticed Watt had a 10'0" broad jump! Whoa, slow down there big guy, at least get down to where we can trade up for you.

 

[BradyManny]

JJ Watt performed better in the cone & shuttle than AJ Green*.

*20 yd shuttle & cone, 60 yd is not up and there is no way in hell Watt will beat him in that one.

 

[BradyManny]

It's a little nerve-wracking watching the players who seem to be good fits for NE all raise their stock. The good news is there are an unusual number of defenders I'd spend #17 on. The bad news is that it's perfectly possible NONE of them will fall to #17.

Depends on your POV...which players specifically would you say raised their stock? Other than Watt, I'd say the big winners today were mostly 43 players (Dontay Moch, Von Miller, Marvin Austin).

In the past few days, I liked Julio Jones quite a bit going into the combine, and no doubt his stock raised this week, but we probably weren't in range to get him anyway.

One of the better 34 prospects, Wilkerson, has seemed to fly under the radar this week. The 34 OLB prospects, Ayers, Smith, haven't done a lot to move their stock as far as I can see.

 

[borg]

Depends on your POV...which players specifically would you say raised their stock? Other than Watt, I'd say the big winners today were mostly 43 players (Dontay Moch, Von Miller, Marvin Austin).

In the past few days, I liked Julio Jones quite a bit going into the combine, and no doubt his stock raised this week, but we probably weren't in range to get him anyway.

One of the better 34 prospects, Wilkerson, has seemed to fly under the radar this week. The 34 OLB prospects, Ayers, Smith, haven't done a lot to move their stock as far as I can see.

After watching the DL today and viewing it with a Patriots slant, Wilkerson impressed. He has natural size...his shoulder width is vast...compared to most. He was very fluid as well. He definitely can anchor with some upfield history at Temple. I'd be very happy with Pouncy at 1A and Wlikerson at 1B. I think one of Ayers, Smith, Kerrigan will fall enough that the Pats could package up using 2A if they desire. Houston looked to bulky and unnatural. Quinn is another that didn't live up to the hype.

 

[dryheat44]

Is anyone familiar with Jarvis Jenkins out of Clemson? I've heard his name throw out as a potential DE for us.

I like him much better in the 2nd or 3rd than I do Watt at 17. With all due respect to Mayock, Watt looks to me like Mike Wright, whom I enjoy, but went undrafted.

 

[dryheat44]

I dont think Mike mamula was the 1st. That would probably be Tony Mandarich he destroyed @ the combine by all accounts.

I don't remember Mandarich at the combine, but he destroyed the big 10 on Saturdays. That steroid-addled freak made more defensive players quit than anybody I've ever seen.


Anyway, since we're on tangents, I don't blame Condon whatsoever for the Watson non-signing. I don't blame anyone. The Patriots were trying to force the last pick of the 1st round into signing a 6-year deal, delaying his potential big free agency contract by 1-2 years. And it's not like pick 32 has a whopping signing bonus attached to it. At the end of the day, the agent works for the client, but if Condon had his name attached to that thing, every other agent in the game would still be using it against him. Better to resign, which is what I think happened. Lose 3% of one contract in order to preserve your odds on representing top 10 clients. Sound business, and I doubt Belichick holds it against him much. It might be a tiebreaker between two otherwise equally-rated prospects, but that's probably the extent of it.

 

[Metaphors]

After watching the DL today and viewing it with a Patriots slant, Wilkerson impressed. He has natural size...his shoulder width is vast...compared to most. He was very fluid as well. He definitely can anchor with some upfield history at Temple.

Wilkerson looked solid and seems like a more natural fit at DE for the Pats than Watt. I would temper the enthusiasm about Wilkerson's pass rush prowess at Temple since I don't think he will be going against many players from Kent State, Buffalo or Miami(OH) on Sundays.

I'd be very happy with Pouncy at 1A and Wlikerson at 1B. I think one of Ayers, Smith, Kerrigan will fall enough that the Pats could package up using 2A if they desire. Houston looked to bulky and unnatural. Quinn is another that didn't live up to the hype.

Ayers was a dumpster fire today. Kerrigan did fine but he just looks like a smallish 4-3 DE to me. I'm a big Aldon Smith fan but he didn't seem particularly quick or explosive today. Quinn didn't ace the tests today and would love to see him fall as he is close to a Ware clone (little bigger and little less explosive).

Houston was the big winner for me today. He was bulky but I thought he carried his weight extremely well. Crushed the "explosion" tests...>36" vert and >10' broad at 270 lbs is exactly what the Pats are looking for. Was able to finish the 3 cone in under 7 sec as well. Add this to his hyper-productive year in the SEC and he becomes a serious consideration for the Pats at #28 or even #17 (depending on how the draft falls).

Back to JJ, I would want the Pats to take him just for the Mega-Watt nickname that would follow his first big sack.

 

[patchick]

Depends on your POV...which players specifically would you say raised their stock? Other than Watt, I'd say the big winners today were mostly 43 players (Dontay Moch, Von Miller, Marvin Austin).

In the past few days, I liked Julio Jones quite a bit going into the combine, and no doubt his stock raised this week, but we probably weren't in range to get him anyway.

One of the better 34 prospects, Wilkerson, has seemed to fly under the radar this week. The 34 OLB prospects, Ayers, Smith, haven't done a lot to move their stock as far as I can see.

I'd add Cameron Jordan to the list, as well as Wilkerson who has looked good in drills. And if Fairley, Dareus, Watt and Jordan all go in the top 10-12 picks, which now seems likely, Wilkerson is arguably the best 3-4 DE prospect left on the board -- long before #17. People have been saying 1B/2A for him, but you might have to bite at 1A.

EDIT: Meant to mention, Aldon Smith hasn't shown anything extraordinary in measurables, but he's looked super smooth in LB drills.

 

[patchick]

Houston was the big winner for me today. He was bulky but I thought he carried his weight extremely well. Crushed the "explosion" tests...>36" vert and >10' broad at 270 lbs is exactly what the Pats are looking for. Was able to finish the 3 cone in under 7 sec as well. Add this to his hyper-productive year in the SEC and he becomes a serious consideration for the Pats at #28 or even #17 (depending on how the draft falls).

Interesting, I had Houston as one of the day's losers, at least as a LB prospect. He looked fast and powerful moving forward, but clumsy and uncomfortable operating in space. He fell down twice in the pick-6 drill, stumbling every time he had to turn his body in backpedal.

 

[patchick]

Interesting, I had Houston as one of the day's losers, at least as a LB prospect. He looked fast and powerful moving forward, but clumsy and uncomfortable operating in space. He fell down twice in the pick-6 drill, stumbling every time he had to turn his body in backpedal.

FWIW, it seems Wes Bunting agrees with me:

The more I watch Georgia DE Justin Houston try to hold up in the space, the less I think the guy is a 3-4 OLB. Now don’t get me wrong, Houston can rush the passer. He timed in the high 4.6 range today, was explosive off the football and is natural from a three-point stance. However, I don’t think he has the type of natural agility in his drop to hold up in coverage at the next level.

NFL combine notes: LB breakdown | National Football Post

 

[jays52]

Yeah, I agree with you as well, PC. Very much looked the part of an end.

 

[MaineMan]

Mike Mamula was drafted #7 overall and had a mid rounder type career when he wasn't injured. He never lived up to the hype. He was a workout warrior. I don't think watt is that. Mamula at best was good depth. Would you want to draft a mike mamula even @ 28 for the NEP?! One of his two best seasons 96' he had 8 sacks due largely because William Fuller was on the other side.

I dont think Mike mamula was the 1st. That would probably be Tony Mandarich he destroyed @ the combine by all accounts.

Not disputing that he didn't live up to the hype and was severely over-drafted as it turned out, but, as Mamula himself has asked, "What was I supposed to do? NOT try to put up the best numbers I could at the Combine?"

Mamula (6044/248) averaged 5.5 sacks, 2 FF and 48 tackles per year for the four seasons he was healthy. No idea what his pass coverage was generally like, but numbers like that might have him starting at OLB for the Pats. Agreed, that production is probably only 2nd/3rd round worthy, but it's hard for me to blame Mamula for the hype.

After a noteworthy career at BC he was rated a 2nd-3rd rounder on the rise. Mamula played rush linebacker for BC when they were running the 3-4 his junior season and had 84 tackles and 11 sacks. His senior year, BC switched to the 4-3 and Mamula switched to DE and came up with 73 tackles and 13 sacks (better Jr/Sr numbers than Houston, for example).

At the Combine (16 years ago), he put up:

4.58 40yd (good for 4th this year behind Martez Wilson, Von Miller, Dontay Moch & Brian Rolle)
38.5" vert (best this year)
10'5" broad (tied for 2nd with Houston behind Miller)
26 reps (6th)
4.03 short shuttle (3rd, but better than Miller)

He also had a Wonderlic score of 49.

I have a feeling he'd easily be included among the projected 1st rounders in 2010 and that Kiper would probably have him in his top ten. And probably someone on this board would be vigorously recommending that we trade the #17, 33, 92 and 124 to move up to #5 in order to be sure to get him, which is more or less what Philly did in 1995.

 

[Metaphors]

Interesting, I had Houston as one of the day's losers, at least as a LB prospect. He looked fast and powerful moving forward, but clumsy and uncomfortable operating in space. He fell down twice in the pick-6 drill, stumbling every time he had to turn his body in backpedal.

This is just my bias for filling the pass rushing need of the Pats. Get someone who can consistently disrupt the backfield while holding the edge against the run. Drop them in coverage only as a change-up (like dropping a DL in a zone blitz).

Over time, they might be a little more comfortable playing backwards...but they would be immediately productive moving forward, which is exactly what the Pats need in 2011. Just feels like people on this board try to get too cute with OLB candidates, eliminating candidates that excel at doing what the Pats desperately need because they lack experience doing things the Pats won't ask them to do often anyway.

How often does Ware drop into coverage? Vrabel's last 2 years in NE were spent almost exclusively moving forward. I think it would be outstanding to have a guy that can collapse the pocket and slice around tackles AND proficiently drop into coverage. I just think you will end up with a guy that is mediocre at both (Ayers) or an undersized LB that is a liability against the run (Miller).

The Pats need to attack the QB and last time I checked that involved moving forward...quickly and violently. Houston can do that. On 3rd and 8 in the 4th quarter, I would rather see someone in Manning's face than trying to stick with Dallas Clark for 6 seconds.

 

[DaBruinz]

Patriots Sign TE Ben Watson

As I noted, the issue was contract length, not money, and Condon's position won out in the end, as the maximum contract length for a player in Watson's position was cut from 6 years to 5. Feel free to take up the argument with Watson and Condon, though, if you wish to continue it.

How did Condon win out in the end? He was FIRED by Watson and Watson signed a 6 year deal. What happened in the CBA has nothing to do with Watson. How you can say that getting fired and getting no commission from a contract is a win for an agent is beyond me.