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Leigh Bodden: Transition Tag?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by drakesta101, Jan 12, 2010.

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  1. drakesta101

    drakesta101 Rookie

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    I was just reading Mike Reiss's always informative mailbag, and as part of the uncapped year each team is allowed to use a "transition tag". This is NOT the franchise tag, but something beyond it. I'm wondering here if the Pats might have a loophole here that would allow them to control the future of Leigh Bodden, depsite guarenteeing him they won't franchise him. Does anyone have any clarification on this?

    He was easily our most solid corner, maybe not the dynamic lock-down number 1 we see in New York or Green Bay, but definitely a player that I think is worth keeping.
  2. slash83

    slash83 Rookie

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    besides wilfork bodden is the last player I wanna see go.
  3. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    I would think that the 'no-tag' stipulation would include transition tag as well.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  4. klinefan

    klinefan Banned

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    That would be kind of a double cross. I say get rid of him, he'll want top dollar, and he was pretty good, nothing outstanding. Lots of catches on him that I saw.
  5. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    It does. Bodden cannot be tagged or franchised.
  6. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In any case, Bodden will not be playing for the patriots unless the patriots are willing to pay big bucks. I think that we should pay big bucks to Bodden, Wilfork and Mankins.
  7. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    Depends on what passes for big bucks. Bodden is a good CB, but not a great one. Paying star money to guys like him is a great way to end up with a mediocre team.
  8. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It would depend on the specific language of the deal; if it applies to both franchise and transition tags.

    But teams rarely use the transition tag now. Besides the Steelers using it on Max Starks recently (which made him drastically overpaid), the last teams to really use it were the Seahawks and Vikings back about four years ago, with Hutchinson and Burleson.

    The problem with the transition tag is that there is no compensation for teams signing the player from you, like there is with the franchise tag (two first-round picks). Therefore teams can just poison pill you, sign the guy, and they won't have to give anything up.
  9. KontradictioN

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    No way should Bodden command big bucks, and no way should we pay him what we're going to pay Wilfork and Mankins. Bodden was solid, but he's a #2 corner. If he wants to get paid like a #1 corner, he certainly didn't play like it and will probably be let go. IMO, Butler is our cornerback of the future.
  10. Deus Irae

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    After the 2008 season, Belichick decided that he'd get rid of his best cornerback before he could be sure that he had adequate replacements lined up for the position. The result was that Wilhite became the starter, just as he'd ended as the starter the season before, and good teams were able to pass against the Patriots pretty much whenever they needed to, just as they had the year before when the Patriots were also playing with just one starter level cornerback.

    I certainly hope that Belichick has learned from that mistake.
  11. KontradictioN

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    You'd pay Bodden as a #1 cornerback? What if there were free agents or someone held up as trade bait before the contract discussions come around?
  12. chevss454

    chevss454 Rookie

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    Sign Bodden to reasonable dollars, add pass rushing and it's a double whammy to improve the pass defense by leaps and bounds
  13. KontradictioN

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    I can agree with that. Sign Bodden, add Dunlap when he falls to the second round of the draft. :)
  14. Deus Irae

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    There's no salary cap this season. In that environment, money means nothing. Some players will get obscene contracts. Others will get screwed. It's all going to break down to the question of how many teams (i.e. Redskins) spend like drunken sailors and how many (i.e. Bengals) pinch pennies until they cry.

    I'm tired of reading excuses for the failures of this past season. Belichick screwed up, time and again. I want to see atonement for those mistakes, because that's what it's going to take to get this team back to elite status.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  15. KontradictioN

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    Fair enough then.
  16. Taxed in Maine

    Taxed in Maine Rookie

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    I'm getting nearly as sick of hearing about Dunlap as I have been about Peppers. Dunlap is a bust looking for a place to happen.

    I agree with improving the pass rush to help the backfield. They need a true presence at RDE, it wil help out the OLB and the NT.

    Bodden is a solid starter and deserves starter money... if he want big money he can go elsewhere.
  17. KontradictioN

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    That's certainly your opinion. I've watched him every game for two years, and he looks like a good replacement for Willie McGinest in the elephant role.
  18. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    I assume you are talking about Ellis Hobbs. We'll compare the two. On top are the numbers Hobbs from 2008, below are the numbers for for Whilite from this year:

    Code:
    TA  	Rec  	% Ct  	Yds  	Avg  	YAC  	LG  	TD  	In  	PD  	NFL Rating
    
    78	45	57.7	728	16.2	266	78	9	3	9	111.5
    
    67	44	65.7	660	15.0	198	68	6	2	0	115.3
    They stack up really well. Hobbs got thrown on less, yet gave up more yards and TDs. Seems to me like Bill made a lateral move. In making that move, Bill managed to acquire two picks that were parlayed into our current long snapper and a back up lineman. That's pretty solid work. I thought getting rid of Hobbs for two 5th was pretty stupid at the time - now I feel differently.

    You are making it sound as if teams can spend like there is no tomorrow. This is inaccurate. There are stipulations. What you pay someone in the uncapped year will indeed affect how you pay them in the years beyond. The FAQ thread addresses this.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  19. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rookie

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    Bodden is not a #1 corner. He's a good #2 IMO. Hopefully Butler will develop into a #1, but who knows. If we add a good pass rush and keep Bodden at a reasonable price, Bodden, Springs (if kept), Butler, Wilhite, Wheatley should be good enough for next year.

    I'm targeting Patrick Peterson in the 2011 draft with that Raiders pick. He's the next true shutdown CB coming out other than Joe Haden who is coming out this year.

    Peterson, maybe Bodden, Butler, Wilhite as our top 4 is my dream for 2011.
  20. Deus Irae

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    Looking at the numbers in a vacuum is useless when there are obvious diffrences surrounding the players which will factor heavily into the equation but can't be accounted for with the raw data. Wilhite had much better safety play around him to help him out, and his partner on the other side was more competent than the estimable Deltha O'Neal or a pair of rookies, which is what Hobbs was dealing with for much of last season. The natural result of having a stiff like O'Neal on the other corner is that the safety play (already a lesser thing overall) had to roll to protect that other side, leaving Hobbs alone, unlike the situation with Wilhite.
  21. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    Yet, who is? With all the ridiculous officiating; most CBs look like garbage these days. Bottomline, how many CBs can you name that you'd rather have than Bodden? If he's not a #1, then I'd assume you should be able to name 31+ players, no?
  22. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    The numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt - but that doesn't make them useless. I agree, Hobbs got less safety help though.
  23. Brono

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    PFF ranks Bodden #13 in pass coverage among 107 cornerbacks who have played at least 25% of their team's snaps (click on Ratings/Cov column to sort).
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2010
  24. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rookie

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    We had a #1 in Asante Samuel. Do you consider Bodden on the same level or better than Asante?

    I certainly don't after watching both of them play in NE. Bodden was a solid addition after having Hobbs and O'Neal as our starting CB's last year, but in no way shape or form do I consider him as good as Asante was. Bodden is good but there are too many times he has his back to the ball. Also, he doesn't have great closing speed IMO. And half of his interceptions hit him right in the chest thanks to Mark Sanchez.

    I think he's a very good #2 CB, but I would not pay him #1 money.
  25. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    People see what they want to see.

  26. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rookie

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    "Stats are for losers."

    Do you really believe Leon Hall is the 3rd best CB in the league? He had a decent year but against the Jets, Edwards just ran right by him. I don't think Brandon Flowers is a top 5 corner either.
  27. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Frankly, I would snap up Revis, no question. Jets are very lucky to have him.
  28. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    I'd put Bodden on a slightly lower level than Asante. But their styles are so radically different its tough to compare. Asante was a gambler. He has the big play potential that Bodden lacks - but he also screws up far more often than Leigh does; both in coverage and in missed tackles. Just for fun, Asante 2007 vs Leigh's 2009:

    Code:
    TA  	Rec  	% Ct  	Yds  	Avg  	YAC  	LG  	TD  	In  	PD  	NFL Rating
    104	61	58.7	778	12.8	206	53	6	7	11	73.3
    92	46	50.0	532	11.6	123	33	4	5	13	59.7  
    Asante might have the best closing speed in the entire league; that a high standard.


    As opposed to Asante's picks? Picks in 2006 courtesy of Rex Grossman (x3), Joey Harrington (x2), Vince Young (x2), Kitna, Jp Lossman, and David Carr. 2007 wasn't much better; Aj Feeley (x2) Trent Edwards, Derek Anderson, Jason Campbell and one against Carson Palmer.


    But name me 31 other guys? I don't think you can. As was mentioned, if you ranked all 32 #1 CBs; 14th sounds about right for Bodden. That's worthy of #1 money. Not necessarily the "get paid" money that Asante wanted; but still a competitive contract.
  29. TriplecHamp

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    Im starting to join the "draft a corner" bandwagon, I want to keep Bodden for at least 2 years because hes our most solid corner while we develop Wheatley and Butler. Hopefully Willhite shows something as well.
  30. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    I'd take Revis and Asante over Bodden as well. But that doesn't exactly make Bodden a #2. He's a perfectly solid #1. Elite? No. But probably better than half the #1s in the NFL.
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