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Left Tackle and Right Tackle

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mgteich, Apr 1, 2009.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Many of us would like to consider an OT at 23, 34 or somewhere in between with a trade up.

    The question that Box asked earlier is a good one. What do we expect the OT to do? See below for some options as we consider drafting an OT early. BTW, if all we want is an upgrade from O'Callaghan and Britt as a backup, we can wait until at least the third.

    LEFT TACKLE
    It is only on message boards that Light isn't a top LT. I have seen absolutely nothing to indicated that Belichick is in any way unhappy with Light. We might even consider extending him this year. He has two years left on his contract. Kaczur and LeVoir both adequate backups. We already have a decent prospect in LeVoir. It is not even clear that it is reasonable to use a 3rd for a LT.

    RIGHT TACKLE
    I like Kaczur as RT and backup LT. However, I can certainly understand that he can be upgraded. I would agree that a top RT who can start would upgrade the OL, especially with Kaczur in this contract year. There is clearly a need for a RT early or in 3rd or 4th. To me, if we want an upgrade at RT, we should draft a RT rather than a rookie who would expect to play RT and then be a LT later. To me, it would be even worse to take a pro-bowl or near pro-bowl LT and play him out of position to accomodate a rookie. That is NOT going to happen unless we were drafting a LT at #3 or #4 in the draft.


    MY CONCLUSIONS
    Our option will depend on who is left and how much of an upgrade the player is seen to be over Kaczur. After all, we could simply extend Kaczur.

    1) Britton at 23 or 34 is fine pick.

    2) Beatty will make someone a starting LT, not us (we have one).

    3) If we don't draft a RT by 34 so, then we should wait until 89 or 97.

    4) If you don't like LeVoir as a prospect AND don't like Kaczur as a backup LT, then we also need to draft backup LT, but understand that this player is at most a Game Day backup at LT and RT.

    SWING TACKLE
    A backup OT needs to be able to be the emergency backup at both tackle positions, or an injury would require shifting the line at two positions during the game (not terrible if it is practised.
  2. JoeShmoe

    JoeShmoe Rookie

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    I'm on record as saying that for me the number ONE option for the NEP must be to keep Brady upright. If he gets time then we have a good chance of another ring - simple as that

    Look at the NYG SB or indeed the first 3 or 4 games last year when we had a few starters on the OL out .. whether Cassel was green or not the OL was porous and we couldn't run either to make up for it

    I'm also sure that apart from Mankins then at least 2 or 3 will be up next year

    So to me an OT who can immediately challenge Kazcur and replace Light long term would be great (Britton, Beatty or Meredith - or move up to try and get Oher/Smith if they falls) - and of more value to this team than an OLB and S in the first

    I would then hope we got a decent OG backup like Unger, Wood, Kruigs etc
  3. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But I think the point of this thread is that those players are very different from one another. E.g. Britton is a pure RT, Beatty a pure LT. There's a stark decision to be made.

    Those "decent backups" Unger and Wood are borderline 1st-round picks. So do you want OL at 23 and 34?
  4. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    What about Jamon Meredith, OT, South Carolina at #58 as he is a guy who I think has the versitility to play that swing tackle you talk about. He would then be able to push Kazcur at RT and be a quality backup who would take over eventually. I do agree that Light still has 3-4 good years left and is a quality player to protect Brady's blindside.
  5. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    To take this question even further, what do we think BB wants an OT to do? IMO he likes LT to be quick and solid to be able to handle those speedy DEs. At RT he likes someone meatier who can just clog up the right side, keep the pocket formed, and let Brady do his job. When people talk about drafting someone to start at RT and then move to LT when Light hits FA, I don't see it. I don't think there are many players out there that would fit BBs idea of a RT and LT all in one.

    As far as openings, I think backup LT (Levior) can be upgraded in the 3rd round. RT has 3 players in contract years. The depth is already there. I don't see any draft picks used for a RT until the situation unfolds itself next year.
  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Beware Meredith, he didn't hold up that well in the SEC and while a decent pass protector, is not a road grader, more of a lean on the defense kind of guy.
  7. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    If the Pats draft Britton and put him at ROT, can't Kazcur be a very serviceable swing OT?

    TJ Lang is a nasty, nasty road grader type, that would be available in the third round. In my mind however, I think the pats could move him to ROG and he might work out much better for us on the inside.
  8. Ungeheuer

    Ungeheuer Rookie

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    I'm not sure that the Pats are really one of those teams that views the RT as a big mauler and the LT as a smaller, quicker guy. O'Callaghan is really the only RT Belichick has acquired who was a traditional huge RT, and wasn't more of a swing-tackle type. Ashworth, Gorin, Klemm, Kaczur -- they're all smaller, quicker tackles.

    It doesn't seem like there are that many tackles high in the draft who are either/or types. I can see Britten, Meredith, Beatty, all those guys, playing either right or left tackle. Loadholt is the only pure RT at the top of the list. It seems to me that the Pats would do well to draft guy who is capable of playing left tackle, and if he's good, stick him at right tackle until Light leaves. What's the problem there?
  9. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    I think his motivation and aggression is what needs to be fixed with this kid but I like his ability to play on both the left and right side.

    Meredith started 38 games, including eight at right guard, 11 at right tackle and 19 at left tackle. In the past two seasons, coaches stats credit him with 17 blocks that resulted in touchdowns while allowing seven pressures and seven sacks on 753 pass plays. Meredith graduated in May 2008 with a 3.7 GPA. - Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange, NFLDraftScout.com

    He appears to be a smart kid who at the next level could be a natural LT but with some better technique and more aggression has the physical tools to move some people.

    I will have to watch a full game of his to get a better look at what you are talking about but it does throw some doubt in it.
  10. Hercules Rockefeller

    Hercules Rockefeller Rookie

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    I agree with you here. Most of the Pats right tackles over the years have been of the variety you describe. I would include Greg Robinson-Randall and Kenyatta Jones, and draft picks like Clint Oldenburg and Corey Hilliard. O'Callaghan is the anomaly. I definitely could see them taking a versatile blocker, be it on the interior (Wood, Unger) or at the tackle position.
  11. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Light (6'4" 305) and Kaczur (6'4" 315) are more or less matched bookends, good run blockers, good pass protectors -not roadgraders or ballet dancers, but well-rounded Tackles - technically sound, mobile and nasty finishers. Mankins (6'4" 310) is basically a triplet with these two. Neal (6'4" 305) might have been a decent OT if he'd had any college experience. LeVoir (6'7" 306) is just a taller version of these four core players.

    This draft class has two 3rd-5th round MAC Left Tackles in T.J. Lang (6'4" 316) and Augustus Parrish (6'4" 303) who fit that description of technically sound, mobile, and nasty. Parrish isn't as explosive as we like, perhaps an alternative option is Robert Brewster (6'4" 325) who reportedly struggles a bit more in space, but would still be a good value in the 6th-7th or as a Priority UDFA. I'm also intrigued by small school Tackle Joel Bell (6'7" 315) and Nebraska's Lydon Murtha (6'7" 306), both of whom are very mobile and agile, but Bell is still a bit raw and Murtha seemed to get nicked up a lot. Both would be options in the 4-5th rounds.

    Like Ochmed I think Lang would be excellent at RG. I think the ideal from this draft class would be to draft Eric Wood (6'4" 310) in the early/mid second and grab Lang in the late second/third. Wood to be the Primary interior OL reserve and Lang to team with LeVoir outside. Wood was a high school Tackle and has the lateral agility to also serve as an emergency Tackle.
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with you that there's nothing so far to indicate that BB is unhappy with Light, or with Kaczur for that matter. But both are upgradeable. Calling Light a "top OT" seems a little bit of a stretch to me. His one pro bowl in 2007 was partly the result of the Pats incredible offensive success. He's certainly not a perennial pro-bowler. I think he's a solid LT, but he is 32 and has had some rough patches. Kaczur is of great value as a swing tackle, but is clearly upgradeable at RT.

    I can see 2 scenarios:

    1. Draft a LT such as Beatty. Move Light to RT, with Kaczur and Levoir as backups (assuming Kaczur is extended beyond 2009). Then get an interior lineman in the 3rd such as TJ Lang or Trevor Canfield, for backup and hopefully to eventually replace Stephen Neal at RG. Resign Mankins and the line is set.

    2. Box's plan: keep Light and Kaczur at OT. Draft a swing OT (BOR suggest's TJ Lang in the 3rd; Jamon Meredith in the 2nd would also be an option) to back them up along with Levoir. The starting OT's wouldn't improve, but there would be more depth and versatility behind them. Add a versatile interior lineman who can back up multiple positions and eventually succeed Stephen Neal, such as Eric Wood and Max Unger, resign Mankins and Kaczsur, and the OL would be in reasonably good shape.

    I personally prefer plan 1 because I don't see Light being a near-top OT for more than 2-3 years, and the chance to get a top LT doesn't come around very often. But plan 2 is cheaper and also quite reasonable.
  13. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    you'd probably want to give beatty a year at RT .......move kaczur to RG until another rookie is ready to play.........the pats have to get PT to a couple of guys to be able to deal with the potential turnover of kaczur, mankins, and neal between now and after next season........neal is done.......kaczur might be extended for decent $$ and mankins will get more than faneca or hutchinson as well he should
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For me, Britton is the answer to our needs to upgrade our line at OT. We would have an upgrade at RT, at swing tackle and at the #4 OT position. And no one would need to trained to play a new position. Light, Britton, Kaczur, LeVoir works for me.

    As far as drafting someone to play OG, I would draft an OG. There are many available from the 2nd through the 4th. Wood stands out, but there are several others.

    To me, Beatty is a waste of value. It is not clear to me that we would have upgraded the team by having Beatty start at LT and Light at RT. I would rather not draft an OT.



  15. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm coming to the same conclusion IF we take an OT early -- Kaczur's a perfect swingman -- but I'm still not leaning that way at #23. Also, when you say "as far as drafting someone to play OG, I would draft an OG," it appears you mean "as far as drafting someone to play OG, I would draft a C." :)
  16. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Patchick, you are deserting me fast on the Beatty bandwagon. :(

    No one seemed to have a problem considering Ryan Clady in the 1st round last year, and that was coming off of Light's best season ever. Beatty is quite similar to Clady in my opinion - considered a bit "soft" and not the best run blocker, but with natural LT feet. Clady did quite nicely this year, and Beatty has shown solid improvement. I would be quite happy picking up a Clady-like LT at #23-34.

    MgTeich and I seem to end up respectfully disagreeing a lot. I like Beatty, he likes Britton. I like Delmas, he doesn't. He likes Laurinaitis, I don't (for the Pats). I have a lot of respect for his insights and views, but I'm still sticking to my guns for now.
  17. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    I was on the Ryan Clady bandwagon last year and I got laughed at, but I was primarily looking at the best value available #7.

    At #23 there's a lot more variables at play.
  18. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here's profiles on Clady and William Beatty to compare from footballsfuture.com (I couldn't find too many profiles left from 2008 for Clady). First, Clady:

    Ryan Clady OT Boise St. 6’6 317
    By: Robert Davis
    Clady started at right tackle as a freshman, earning Frosh AA honors. He shifted over to left tackle a year later, and has earned two straight All American honors.

    Clady is the prototype left tackle. He has a long, lean frame and is an excellent athlete. He easily mirrors defenders in pass protection, and shows excellent lateral agility. He is an excellent pass protector, and should keep his quarterback’s jersey clean on a consistent basis.

    The only thing Clady really needs is to spend some time getting stronger. He lacks the ability to drive defenders off the ball in the running game.

    Clady needs some work, but his upside is tremendous. He may end up being the best left tackle out of this draft. Everyone thinks Jake Long is a lock as the top tackle, and while he probably is, do not be surprised to see Clady have just as successful a career in the NFL.


    Now, William Beatty:

    William Beatty OT 6'6 291 Connecticut
    By: Robert Davis

    Beatty started the first five games of his sophomore year until a broken foot ended his season. He was a mainstay at left tackle his final two seasons for the Huskies.

    Strengths

    Beatty may be the best athlete among all offensive lineman this year. He is a tremendous athlete and that gives him big time upside at left tackle. He easily mirrors defenders moves and is real fluid when changing directions. His mobility and ability in pass protection is arguably tops among all tackles. Beatty also uses his athleticism to help in the running game by getting out and picking up defenders down the field.

    Weaknesses

    Bulk is a pressing concern with Beatty. He is extremely thin, and barely topped the 290 pound mark at the Senior Bowl. He can be overmatched with stronger lineman and must bulk up and get stronger to live up to his potential. At this point he only fits zone blocking schemes because he will have trouble run blocking in most offenses.

    Future

    The main issue separating William Beatty from someone like Jason Smith is the amount of weight on their frames. Beatty’s athleticism rivals anyone at the left tackle position this year, but he is way too light in the pants to carry a premium grade. His impressive week at the Senior Bowl moved him up into potential late first consideration but he will need to pack on more weight before he sees the field in the NFL. If Beatty can add 20lbs and maintain his agility, someone is going to have a pro bowl caliber tackle on their hands.


    If you consider that the Beatty review was written when he was 290# and that he has since weighted in around 307# and bench pressed 30 reps with long arms, then I would argue that he is the closest thing to a Clady in this year's draft. Not quite as big or polished, perhaps, but we're talking #23-34 here, not 12#.
  19. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    I don't understand the need to move Nick inside. He's a very good RT who can swing. Give him solid guard with LeVoir backing him up and let him play out his contract at the position. LT is a more concerning position. Light's good, no doubt about it, but I would draft a low-round developmental/back-up LT with an eye to have him take over for Light sooner than 3-4 years, probably in 2010 or 2011.

    By 2012 we should see new faces down the whole line. Hopefully RG this year and center soon (imho). A Max Unger seems like a great pick to me and shores up three positions (interior line), as well gives us Koppen's eventual replacement.

    So I'd go for Unger or a comparable player and get an LT lower, probably with the 3rd round comp pick or later.
  20. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    He's definitely in play, but with a multitude of picks in round 2 I think we'd be better served at getting the best OG in the draft.
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