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Lee Smith and Alge Crumpler.


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I hear ya. But sometimes things that seem obvious to me turn out to mystify other people and I am left with no choice but to disclose information that feels like common sense.

I feel this way every time I try to help my parents with their computer problems. I have spent years explaining the difference between hard drive space and volatile memory. Oh, the pain, the agony! And god forbid they ever find out about the existence of the page file!! Virtual memory?!? I'll have to start all over!!!

Yup. And when you've gone over things several times in prior threads, sometimes you don't feel like typing everything up again! :D
 
This is the problem. There is no fallacy. If you are ranking something, you are always using some set of criteria. Otherwise you could provide no such ranking; it is the very definition.

The problem was simple. The poster we were responding to wouldn't tell us which numbers would work for him, regarding a blocking tight end. He supplied receiving numbers, and he even tried using college numbers when pointing to Smith.
 
How are these numbers:

Chris Johnson Rushing

- 2009 (with Crump): 2006 yards
- 2010 (without Crump): 1364

Yes, teams will have schemed more against him, making his yards less and the Titans weren't a great team, but losing Crump didn't help!

His average per carry went from 5.6 to 4.3! The major difference was the loss of his blocking TE!

How are they for numbers?

Here is the first attempt to prove this line of thinking other than to say "I say so". But the explanation of the reduced yardage being totaly atributed to Crump is unrealistic. How about Chris Johnsons own explanation for the reduced yardage :

Trying to figure out what's wrong with the Titans running game
Posted by NBC Sports on October 7, 2010, 10:50 AM EDT
The goal for Chris Johnson was 2,500 rushing yards. The Tennessean even built a nifty application to track his progress.

So far, he’s on pace for 1,416 rushing yards. That’s not shabby, but his 3.8 yards-per-carry average is 34th in the league, and he’s only recorded 38 receiving yards in four games.

Watch the Titans play, and you constantly see defenders in the backfield. Johnson is often breaking tackles just to get back to the line of scrimmage.

“I’m running the same,” Johnson said when asked if he’s been as decisive this year.

That may sound like Johnson is redirecting blame, but that’s not the case.

“One time the offensive linemen miss a block or one time (I) might
miss a read or not be in the right place, so it is the whole offense,”
Johnson told Jim Wyatt Wednesday. “It’s a long season and we know we’re going to get better. That is
the wrong thing to do, to start pointing fingers, you start separating
the locker room.”

Vince Young needs to start going deep more, and Kenny Britt’s role looks set to increase. Johnson was hoping for another deep threat though.

“Moss would of been a great move for us,” Johnson wrote Wednesday.


"Still, Johnson is having a hard time adjusting to defenses geared up to stop him. Johnson told his fantasy owners and fans that he’d have a great October, and that

"it was just taking him a little time to adjust to eight or nine defenders in the box."

Johnsons own explanation is holding more weight than speculation that Crumpler was the reason for Johnsons success. also looking back I see a reference to:FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | TIGHT ENDS 2010
showing TE stats, which if you follow Crumps career back to 01 shows a spuratic rise for his first 4 years then a slow than rapid decline in productivity in every catigory. his overall rankings follow: 01-21st,02-5th,03-16th,04-8th,05-20th,06-19th,07-22nd,08-29th,09-32nd,10-53rd. It doesen't take much thought to see he is at the end of his career, and even at the top of his game he was spuratic. Also even at the top of his game he never put up the stats and rankings that Gronkowski and Hernandez have in their rookie years(overall 2nd. and 5th.). I can't understand the disrespect you posters have for your new star TE's by insisting they need Crumpler to be successful when Crumpler never reached the point that our New TE's have started at. Crumpler did serve a valuble contribution to the team helping breakin the rookies but the coaching staf had a lot to do with it to. Now the team needs contributors, not cheerleaders. He should retire befors becomeing dead weight and give way to the future.
 
How are these numbers:

Chris Johnson Rushing

- 2009 (with Crump): 2006 yards
- 2010 (without Crump): 1364

Yes, teams will have schemed more against him, making his yards less and the Titans weren't a great team, but losing Crump didn't help!

His average per carry went from 5.6 to 4.3! The major difference was the loss of his blocking TE!

How are they for numbers?

The major difference according to Johnson was stacking 8 an 9 in the box.
 
It's amazing that someone could watch a full season of Crump without recognizing how devastating of a blocker he is. Why people are trying to convince someone who argues so vehemently against such an obvious fact is puzzling. Observant Pats fans value and enjoy watching Crump pancake people on a regular basis.
 
The problem was simple. The poster we were responding to wouldn't tell us which numbers would work for him, regarding a blocking tight end. He supplied receiving numbers, and he even tried using college numbers when pointing to Smith.

The fact that Crumpler has virtualy NO recieveing yards or catches means nothing to you because he is a "BLOCKING TE". Then he is esentialy an extra blocker on the line, and if he is an extra blocker on the line we might as well put in an extra OT, Steve Maneri an ex TE converted to OT at 6'6" 290 sounds good. He is 4 inches taller, better weight distribution only 15 lb. more, and is just as much a threat to catch a ball as Crumpler. Oh yea and 10 yr. younger.
 
It's amazing that someone could watch a full season of Crump without recognizing how devastating of a blocker he is. Why people are trying to convince someone who argues so vehemently against such an obvious fact is puzzling. Observant Pats fans value and enjoy watching Crump pancake people on a regular basis.

I agree....he's quickly become one my favourite players. His blocking and mentoring of the younger guys is invaluable. I couldn't get pissed off about his drop in the playoffs even if i tried to.
 
The fact that Crumpler has virtualy NO recieveing yards or catches means nothing to you because he is a "BLOCKING TE".

Obviously. The team has Hernandez to be the oversized WR masquerading as a TE, and it's got Gronkowski as the all-around TE. Crumpler has a role to play, and he did it very well last year. The concern for me this year, as it was last year, will be whether or not Crumpler has slowed down too much. Only time and observation will tell us that.

Then he is esentialy an extra blocker on the line, and if he is an extra blocker on the line we might as well put in an extra OT, Steve Maneri an ex TE converted to OT at 6'6" 290 sounds good.

Yes, if Belichick wanted to be stupid, he could take a top end guy and replace him with an unproven player for no reason other than to satisfy some guy who posts under the name of "part-timer". Or, he could do the smarter thing and keep a guy who's been a major positive in the locker room, isn't breaking the bank, and has done the job on the field, as long as he looks as if he can still do the job.

He is 4 inches taller, better weight distribution only 15 lb. more, and is just as much a threat to catch a ball as Crumpler. Oh yea and 10 yr. younger.

Not one single part of this means a damned thing. A man named Gholston was younger, faster and stronger than a lot of players. How'd that work out for him in terms of career success at the NFL level?
 
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It's amazing that someone could watch a full season of Crump without recognizing how devastating of a blocker he is. Why people are trying to convince someone who argues so vehemently against such an obvious fact is puzzling. Observant Pats fans value and enjoy watching Crump pancake people on a regular basis.

Personal opinions. Show me some articles, publications anything that say's Crumpler measures up to your opinion. If it is as you say so obvious you should have no problem provideing a multitude of links to profesional sports writers praiseing Crumpler for his invaluble contribution to the team.

All you guys can come up with are adjectives and adverbs.
At least CALCIUMEE is makeing an attempt to do the research to defend his point instead of being lazy and hopeing for someone else to do so.

I complement CALCIUMEE on his contribution and disrespect those who simply want to spout B***S*** and have their lazy uninformed opinion excepted as proof.
 
Personal opinions. Show me some articles, publications anything that say's Crumpler measures up to your opinion. If it is as you say so obvious you should have no problem provideing a multitude of links to profesional sports writers praiseing Crumpler for his invaluble contribution to the team.

All you guys can come up with are adjectives and adverbs.
At least CALCIUMEE is makeing an attempt to do the research to defend his point instead of being lazy and hopeing for someone else to do so.

I complement CALCIUMEE on his contribution and disrespect those who simply want to spout B***S*** and have their lazy uninformed opinion excepted as proof.

There were plenty of articles during the season about Crump and if i'm not mistaken BB has given him quite alot of praise. The guy was chosen team captain...what more do you need?
 
There were plenty of articles during the season about Crump and if i'm not mistaken BB has given him quite alot of praise. The guy was chosen team captain...what more do you need?

Glasses? A clue?
 
Bill Belichick : “ He's very professional. Alge's really smart. He's into football. He works hard at it. He has a great presence. He's one of those guys that just seems like he always does the right thing no matter what the situation is. Whether it's in a game, in practice, in a meeting, in a walk through, whether it's a decision on the play, whether it's the way his demeanor is at that particular time, he knows when to smile, he knows when to be serious, he knows when to [step up], when to back off, when to gear it up, when to say and do the right thing. He's constantly helping his teammates and making reminders to them or telling them what to do to help them work off of him and so forth. I guess I think the best way I can put it is it seems like he always does the right thing no matter what the situation is. On or off the field, in the locker room, meetings, practice, it just seems like he always does the right thing. "

Sounds like exactly the type of player BB loves.
 
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Personal opinions. Show me some articles, publications anything that say's Crumpler measures up to your opinion. If it is as you say so obvious you should have no problem provideing a multitude of links to profesional sports writers praiseing Crumpler for his invaluble contribution to the team.

All you guys can come up with are adjectives and adverbs.
At least CALCIUMEE is makeing an attempt to do the research to defend his point instead of being lazy and hopeing for someone else to do so.

I complement CALCIUMEE on his contribution and disrespect those who simply want to spout B***S*** and have their lazy uninformed opinion excepted as proof.

Since you can't be bothered coming up with a way to measure the abilities of blocking TEs, I'll do something I despise, which is citing to PFF (via Rotoworld):

The Patriots are expected to retain 33-year-old blocking tight end Alge Crumpler for 2011.
Crumpler is due $2.4M in his contract year. The veteran graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 3 run-blocking tight end, a role he will continue in next season. Crumpler is also a mentor for Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. Jan 29, 8:16 AM
Source: ESPN Boston

Alge Crumpler - New England Patriots - 2011 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

Now, either give us an acceptable metric for evaluating blocking TEs or quit with the demand for measurables. You can't have it both ways.
 
There were plenty of articles during the season about Crump and if i'm not mistaken BB has given him quite alot of praise. The guy was chosen team captain...what more do you need?

LINKS BB never has anything but praise for any and every player that he speaks about.

Still not one fact, published opinin, or rateing from all the Crump supporters to back up the oppinion that he is an unexpendable part of the pats system other than CALCIUMME's post on Johnsons rushing numbers. All i see is a couple opininated posters patting each other on the back because they THINK Crump is indespensable and a tremendous "BLOCKING TACKLE" who cant catch but that doesn't matter.
 
LINKS BB never has anything but praise for any and every player that he speaks about.

Still not one fact, published opinin, or rateing from all the Crump supporters to back up the oppinion that he is an unexpendable part of the pats system other than CALCIUMME's post on Johnsons rushing numbers. All i see is a couple opininated posters patting each other on the back because they THINK Crump is indespensable and a tremendous "BLOCKING TACKLE" who cant catch but that doesn't matter.

What the hell are you expecting? Game by game,play by play analysis of Crump blocking? If you watched any of the games then you'd know how good of a blocker he is. It's a legit argument that he is among the best blocking TE's in the league. Lee Smith hasn't proven **** and we're not gonna use Hernandez as a run blocker. He's not the same receiver that he once was but he is good enough to get the job done. We don't really ask him to be a pass catcher.
 
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Since you can't be bothered coming up with a way to measure the abilities of blocking TEs, I'll do something I despise, which is citing to PFF (via Rotoworld):



Alge Crumpler - New England Patriots - 2011 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

Now, either give us an acceptable metric for evaluating blocking TEs or quit with the demand for measurables. You can't have it both ways.

I presented all available fact dealing with TE's showing Crumplers lack of value.
You expect ME to find a way for you to defend your point of view? WHAT?
You state the measurables used for ALL other TE's in the NFL do not matter when it comes to Crumpler? WHAT?
The closest you have come is to quote "ROTO world" rumor mill's speculation that Crumpler (esentialy a sixth lineman) may return in 2011 is extreemly lame, especialy since the quote came out in Jan. and the OL was in shambles. Now after the draft the OL isn't looking so bad and we may not need that extra "SIXTH LINEMAN". Your article not mine. If Crump is doing a linemans job let a lineman do it.
 
I think the perfect scenario would be to keep 4 TEs and have Smith learn nothing but long snapping this summer. During the fall have him learn at the side of Crump much like a backup QB(clipboard and all!)about blocking in the NFL. Crump's value is an easy statistic to measure....what % of the plays was he on the field for last season?? Dont you think BB values that?? His losing a step and diminished catching skills will affect that %. Bravo on the Maneri reference.
 
I presented all available fact dealing with TE's showing Crumplers lack of value.
You expect ME to find a way for you to defend your point of view? WHAT?
You state the measurables used for ALL other TE's in the NFL do not matter when it comes to Crumpler? WHAT?
The closest you have come is to quote "ROTO world" rumor mill's speculation that Crumpler (esentialy a sixth lineman) may return in 2011 is extreemly lame, especialy since the quote came out in Jan. and the OL was in shambles. Now after the draft the OL isn't looking so bad and we may not need that extra "SIXTH LINEMAN". Your article not mine. If Crump is doing a linemans job let a lineman do it.

Ok, you're just trolling. I thought you were honestly clueless, but your deliberately ignoring the #3 ranking as a blocking TE, when it was in bold type so you wouldn't miss it, shows you're being this ridiculous on purpose.

Now that I know you're just a troll, I can just relegate you to the dust bin with the rest of them.
 
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The major difference according to Johnson was stacking 8 an 9 in the box.

Yes, because absolutely no one thought of stacking the box in 2009.

Perhaps all those defenders busting through the line that you talk about are because of poor TE blocking? :cool:

The fact that Crumpler has virtualy NO recieveing yards or catches means nothing to you because he is a "BLOCKING TE". Then he is esentialy an extra blocker on the line, and if he is an extra blocker on the line we might as well put in an extra OT, Steve Maneri an ex TE converted to OT at 6'6" 290 sounds good. He is 4 inches taller, better weight distribution only 15 lb. more, and is just as much a threat to catch a ball as Crumpler. Oh yea and 10 yr. younger.

You should give Belichick and call and share this idea with him. Judging by NE's use of Graham, Kyle Brady and Crumpler, BB hasn't quite figured out how worthless a good blocking TE is.
 
Since Lee has done it...


is long snapping a hard talent to maintain or does it just necessitate 1-2 hours of practice regularly???



He is a TE to he must learn to become a blocking TE

I don't foresee this multitasking troublesome is it?:confused:
 
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