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Last word on Vinatieri

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by dryheat44, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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  2. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Very interesting numerics. I am sure that BB & Co. did a similar numerical analysis in assessing Vin's worth to the Pats. Given this year's cap, they probably decided that they could pay a bit more than some teams for the luxury of a known quantity but not THAT much more.
  3. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

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    I like the line, "it appears the Colts were wrong".
  4. PatsWickedPissah

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    That line would/will read SO much better in mid-January
  5. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Not sure if its the last word or not - but given the fact that we might carry two kickers on the roster, its not as simple as the "case for or against Vinatieri"

    If there were concerns about his ability to kick the long FG or for kickoffs (there were), keeping 2 kickers on the roster would have been an option with AV as it is right now

    We'd still likely have a rookie kicker to fill the "strong leg" role while giving him a chance to adjust to the NFL without having to face the pressure of a game winning kick

    Sure, that scenario would have cost us more salary than we currently have expended for a kicker - but it would just be for one more year and obviously, we have the cap space
  6. Pats67

    Pats67 Rookie

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    Hey, pass the word on Bill's columns - he'll be with us every week this season, usually posted mid-week. Greg Doyle's 'Film Reviews' are also a good new feature we've added. Thanks for reading.

    <commercial over>
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is there any evidence, other than fans' opinion, that we might keep two kickers ? I'm not sure Belichick has ever said that.

    I actually think that keeping two kickers would have been as viable with Vinatraitor as Gramatica as they clearly didn't trust Vinatraitor to try long kicks. If Gramatica were the short/medium guy, that would be no different than Vinatraitor being the short/medium guy.

    I now think that we will keep just Gostkowski and use the extra QB roster spot on a young LB like Woods or Mincey.
  8. PatsMan26

    PatsMan26 Rookie

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    Clearly Gost is making the team and there is no way that the pats would keep to kickers. That is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard.
  9. italian pat patriot

    italian pat patriot Rookie

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    how many times we said before 'last' for AV ?
  10. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I assume you mean "two" kickers and you weren't aware of Coach Belichick's "rediculous" comments yesterday about keeping two kickers?

    Or do you actually think that Belichick has lost his mind?

    It's still an open compeition for K - while you may have made up your mind I don't think BB has told Gramatica to pack his bags just yet.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  11. TNPatsFan

    TNPatsFan Rookie

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    :confused: Are you correcting his spelling? The word "ridiculous" does not have any e's in it. He spelled it correctly.
  12. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is a reason these kind of stats don't work in football. Don't always even work in baseball.

    Plus, he forgot to factor in that while we may end up carrying two kickers, the Colts now get to carry 1 and pick up not just a few hundred more in salary to spend elsewhere, they pick up a roster spot. Oh, and he's muddling apples and oranges there. Vanderjerk made $1.8 in salary but cost $2.8 on the cap. Adam's salary for 2006 is minimal, although he's pocketing a very nice signing bonus. But in total he's only costing about $1.5M on the Colts 2006 cap.

    Part of this guys problem is he's trying to use stats to prove his own pre existing gut instincts. That's never a good approach for a stat man. And statisticians cannot seem to find a method to quantify clutch, therefore they downplay it's significance. That is why you have to take whatever conclusions they come to with a grain of salt. Anecdotal evidence strongly suggest clutch exists - you see it with your very own eyes.
  13. BelichickFan

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    I think it was Felger who said it isn't how many kicks are missed this year, it's which ones are missed.

    As long as Gostkowski is as accurate in the playoffs as Vinatraitor, we're fine. That includes his miss last year in Denver and his two misses in SB 38.
  14. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    There are teams needing a kicker. They may be eyeing the pickup of the loser of the Marteen and Casper contest as a free cut.

    If BB keeps both through the last cut he may be able to extract a draft pick that week, from a team getting desperate, suddenly anxious that the free kicker is no longer available.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  15. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I'm not all that concerned about spelling as much as some people.

    But the suggestion that Belichick is being "ridiculous or rediculous" for thinking of keeping "two or to" kickers is more the point

    Everyone has opinions around here but I got the feeling our strongly opinionated friend wasn't aware that keeping two kickers is not a ridiculous idea - at least as far as the Coach of the Patriots was concerned.

    ...and his opinion usually counts for a bit more than ours
  16. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Yup - yesterday on WEEI -

    BB was asked if he'd consider keeping two kickers. He said he absolutely would if he felt it was in the best interest of the team - and that everyone was surprised when he kept 4 QBs on the roster but he still did that and that worked out pretty well.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  17. Pats67

    Pats67 Rookie

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    Mo's not helping our clicks :(
  18. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    I don't think clutch exists.
    I think lack of clutch exists.

    Some people perform as good in all situations.
    Some people can't handle the pressure and choke.

    Sometimes I think I'm the only one here who actually thinks that other NFL kickers could make the kicks that Adam did.
  19. TNPatsFan

    TNPatsFan Rookie

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    Bingo! That's what I find so stupid about analysts who claim the Pats are so much weaker now because they lost a kicker. Sure, he made some great kicks in the postseason, but it's not like he's the only kicker in the league who would have made them.
  20. AzPatsFan

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    There are teamsneding a kicker. Theymay be eying pickup th loser of tehmarteen and Casper contest as a free cut.

    If BB keeps both through the last cut he may be able to extract a draft pick that week from a team suddenly anxious that the free kicker is no longer available.
  21. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Green Bay's former kicker went 9-9 in late game attempts for the win or tie over the past few years. Really the only kick that was otherworldly was the 45 yarder to tie against Oakland. All the other ones you would expect at last 75% on.

    I am by no means saying that I don't think Adam was a great kicker. He was, and I wish he was still on the team. But I will be very surprised if the kicking game costs NE even one game this year.
  22. BelichickFan

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    That doesn't mean he actually would do it though. Come on, you've listened to Belichick enough. Not with this roster.
  23. Patsgirl_DK

    Patsgirl_DK Rookie

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    BB said at his preconference today that Grammatica (sp?) had done really well in TC, On PFW in Progress today someone suggested that this was his way of signing him of with an extra plus on his resume. I think the guy might be right but we will know much more on Saturday when we see who will be doing the kicking.

    Edit. Just saw the Gramatica released thread. I guess the guy was right.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  24. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    What do you want - you say its just idle fan speculation - and then when you hear BB says he would absolutely consider it you just write it off?

    Don't argue with me - argue with him - that's what he said

    but I guess in this case it seems that Gostowski won out
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  25. BelichickFan

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    You don't need to say anything, I just think it was very unlikely they would keep two kickers with this deep roster.
  26. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    Sebastian Janakowski gets no credit for the three field goals he made in the Snow Bowl.
  27. the taildragger

    the taildragger Rookie

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    spoken like an actual athlete:)

    it's not about "rising up" in the big moment but about not being affected by the big moment...that's the definition of a "big game player."

    this was a nice article on outsiders...don't disagree with their conclusion, although I'm a bit more optimistic about Ghost...but let's not burden him with expectations.

    Had this exact argument the other day at work, guy actually comes up with the old, "nobody else in the league could've made those kicks." To which I said, well, Janikowski was 2 for 2 from like 50 yards in that snow game. Is anyone confident in Adam making that snow kick AGAIN?

    I can name a bunch of kickers off the top of my head who I like to win the Super Bowl from 46-48 yards INDOORS off CARPET...including one of the guys on the other side of the field (Wilkins), and including Rackers, Longwell, Stover, etc...

    They'll never get that chance.

    Adam was put in that position TWICE. And his HoF ticket was punched by a guy who, backed up on his goalline, with no serious weapons around him, no timeouts, and 80 seconds on the clock, took his team down the field 50 yards....we're comparing ONE KICK to that performance!

    SB-38?...not one, but TWO scoring drives (10 points in last 3 and a half minutes) to win the game...this has never been done in either a Super Bowl or Championship game...EVER. Montana never did that. Unitas never did that. And they didn't have to face a modern NFL defense without a host of Pro Bowl talent surrounding them.

    Adam better hope Steven bombs or people will give a second thought to his HoF prospects.

    and yes, his kickoffs absolutely sucked (Can't believe the Dolts dropped their KO specialist)...we were blind not to realize this.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  28. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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