Kareem Brown to Jets

[Deus Irae]

Now, Captain Stone, to address your first point:

1.) Search the NFL to find all the cornerbacks who were drafted in rounds 4-7 in the past two seasons and are playing significant time for good teams or have shown true quality as players. Unless you find dozens of them, your point really has no validity.

2006: Alan Zemaitis (inj.), Will Blackmon, Charles Gordon, Marcus Hudson, DeMario Minter (inj.), Derrick Martin
2007: Tarell Brown, David Irons, Anthony Arline, Courtney Brown, Michael Coe, Corey Graham
EDIT: I should have included Tim Mixon from our PS in my prior post. He may have a better career than Mike Richardson.

Will Blackmon?

From the Packers team site:

# Spent the first 11 weeks on the 53-man roster, playing in four games while inactive for seven before being placed on injured reserve, Nov. 25
# Saw most of the action during his rookie season in 'nickel' and 'dime' packages, in addition to special teams duty
# Was in on 11 snaps and posted one pass defensed, in addition to three special teams stops
# Missed all of training camp after breaking his right foot during a May 21 mini-camp practice and was unable to practice until Sept. 4, three days after the preseason finale
# Moving closer to being full speed after the foot injury, was listed as inactive vs. Chicago (Sept. 10)
# Suffered additional setback in practice leading up to the New Orleans contest and remained inactive for Games 2-5
# Returned to practice Oct. 10 during the bye week
# Played in his first professional game, at Miami (Oct. 22), seeing action mostly on special teams with 10 snaps at left cornerback; made one pass defensed and one special teams tackle
# Saw action at defensive back and on special teams vs. Arizona (Oct. 29)
# Played exclusively on special teams at Buffalo (Nov. 5) and at Minnesota (Nov. 12), where he tallied two special teams tackles
# Suffered a rib injury in Vikings contest and was inactive vs. New England (Nov. 19)
# Placed on injured reserve the following week, Nov. 25

So, he's been IR'd twice, played 11 snaps as a rookie, broke a foot in mini-camp, saw 10 snaps at corner in one game this season and some snaps in another, while spending most of his time playing on special teams prior to going to the IR for that second time.


Charles Gordon?
He was undrafted. Not a single team spent a pick on him. Plays on Vikings, a terrible secondary

Marcus Hudson? Same thing.... undrafted, plays on 49ers, another terrible secondary

Demario Minter? Practice squad for the Cardinals

Derrick Martin? Defensive back for the Ravens

Alan Zemaitis? He's out of football after being cut by the Bucs

So, from the 2006 class, there is a total of ONE player you picked that there should even be a hint of discussion about, and that's Martin. Compare that to Willie Andrews of the same class:

Willie Andrews. Patriots DB (Primarily a special teams player), has played in 11 games this season, with 4 tackles and a touchdown scored. Last season, he played in 15 games and had 17 tackles.

Now, from 2007:

Tarell Brown? Plays on the 49ers, a terrible team. Has 4 career tackles. Had a firearms bust in his senior year. Has only played in 4 games this season.

David Irons? DB for the Falcons, a backup and mostly a special teams player

Anthony Arline? San Diego Chargers. Did not report to the team and was placed on the Reserve/Did Not Report list

Courtney Brown? Dallas Cowboys DB. He's a 3rd string DB (Listed at Safety on the NFL.com site) who's only been active in 3 games and has one tackle total

Michael Coe? Indianapolis Colts DB. Has played in one game and not registered a tackle

Corey Graham? Chicago Bears DB. Has played in 8 games and has 10 tackles. He's listed as the 3rd string right cornerback


Now, reviewing the above list.... where are these 'players' that New England was somehow remiss in not drafting?

 

[Joker]

That's our Wrathful God ,folks...don't pizz him off or YOU might be next...

 

[carolinatony]

I keep telling you guys
We need to sign 4/5 players with NO football experience for a few days and release them. Let the Rats picks them up.
Have we released 1 player they did Not pick up!

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Another draft pick bites the dust. Go ahead people, keep making excuses for Pioli. The guy has wasted numerous picks the last 2 years. Do you guys NOT think that maybe the secondary could've used a 4th rd pick in it this past week instead of Baker or Eddie "I can't cover a grill" Jackson? Puhleaze. I guess 4th rd picks are just throw away picks and not picks that can add depth to your roster, right? Wow, the last two drafts have been nothing short of BRUTAL. Then again, I guess we are just so STACKED that we can't use 1st and 2nd rd picks(Maroney, Jackson, Meriweather) on the field because we have better players to play(Faulk, Baker, Eddie Jackson).

 

[Deus Irae]

Another draft pick bites the dust. Go ahead people, keep making excuses for Pioli. The guy has wasted numerous picks the last 2 years. Do you guys NOT think that maybe the secondary could've used a 4th rd pick in it this past week instead of Baker or Eddie "I can't cover a grill" Jackson? Puhleaze. I guess 4th rd picks are just throw away picks and not picks that can add depth to your roster, right? Wow, the last two drafts have been nothing short of BRUTAL. Then again, I guess we are just so STACKED that we can't use 1st and 2nd rd picks(Maroney, Jackson, Meriweather) on the field because we have better players to play(Faulk, Baker, Eddie Jackson).

Bleating more nonsense, I see....

 

[danny88]

Bleating more nonsense, I see....

Why is his post nonsense??? He is right! Meriweather is 12 games into the season. Buried behind baker on the depth chart. The guy does not even play when we are up by 30 points. The kid looks lost out there when he does play , which is about 2 snaps a year.

Jackson has done nothing to this point.Maroney has done nothing to warrent a first round pick. His stable mate picked in the 4th round has been far better.

A fourth round pick is a pick that should add depth. The last two drafts have not been so good , considering the track record we have.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why is his post nonsense??? He is right! Meriweather is 12 games into the season. Buried behind baker on the depth chart. The guy does not even play when we are up by 30 points. The kid looks lost out there when he does play , which is about 2 snaps a year.

Jackson has done nothing to this point.Maroney has done nothing to warrent a first round pick. His stable mate picked in the 4th round has been far better.

A fourth round pick is a pick that should add depth. The last two drafts have not been so good , considering the track record we have.

Feel free to actually read this thread. I have already dealt with the myth of the past 2 Patriots drafts. NSA's post is just more blather coming from a troll in fan's clothing.

 

[captain stone]

First, you concede the point that none of the players drafted for the position have started off as impact players. You then attempt to 'defend' this by denigrating the players that were actually chosen. However, as you note, TBC made it as a 7th rounder and, as people keep trying to point out, he was a converted defensive end (and had been a linebacker prior to that).

1) Now, given that not a single one of Belioli's first round draft picks have been busts to date, exactly how would you have made this move? Remember that Ted Johnson retired early due to concussions, Vrabel was just a backup in Pittsburgh, Thomas played multiple positions in Baltimore and Chad Brown and Monty Biesel (among others) couldn't handle what was asked of them. It's clear that a "Belichick" linebacker is a rare and special breed of player. Vilma, for another example, whom some wanted so desperately, has been a washout in a similar system in New York, and TBC hasn't exactly set the world on fire in San Francisco. Despite the way it's portrayed, 2) Belioli have brought in many linebackers in an attempt to bolster the corps. It's simply been a case where most of them have not been up to the task. I'm sure he'll keep looking.

1) You want LBs, you got 'em:

2000 - I wanted Adalius Thomas with one of the two 5th-round picks; instead, the FO chose DL Jeff Marriott(!?!) and TE Dave Stachelski.
2001 - I wanted Ed Hartwell (or WR Justin McCareins) with the 4th-rounder used to select TE Jabari Holloway.
2002 - I wanted Trev (cousin of Kevin) Faulk with the 7th-rounder used to select RB Antoine Womack.
2003 - I would have waited until the 6th round to take Dan Klecko; I then would have groomed him immediately as a SILB. If taken, then Tony Gilbert, Mario Haggan, Clifton Smith, Chris Clemons and Scott Shanle were still on the board.
2004 - I wanted Karlos Dansby with the 1st-rounder used to select Ben Watson. I then would have attempted to trade the 2nd- and 3rd-rounders to move up in the 2nd round and take Watson, who's having a great year, but I'd still draft Dansby ahead of him.
2005 - I would have signed Liam Ezekial as a UDFA.
2006 - I wanted Mark Anderson with the 5th-rounder used to select Ryan O'Callahan. Anderson's playing 4-3 DE for the Bears, but his combine #s showed that he could convert to 3-4 OLB.
2007 - I wanted the Poz instead of the Stomper. I wanted Brandon Siler with one of the late 6th-rounders or early 7th.

Now, some of the aforementioned - Faulk, the 2003 LBs, Ezekial -would not have panned-out, due to injury/ineffectiveness. But what if they had gone to NE instead? Perhaps they wouldn't have become injured, or they would've been more effective through better coaching. The point is: there have been opportunities to draft higher-caliber LBs than the flotsam and jetsam brought here this decade. The FO has chosen not to do so, at its peril.

2) And who's fault is that? The FO is rolling the dice with this combination of aged and JAGged LBs; one more injury, and our SB plans could come up craps.

 

[Deus Irae]

2) And who's fault is that? The FO is rolling the dice with this combination of aged and JAGged LBs; one more injury, and our SB plans could come up craps.

The problem with you and the rest of the people who refuse to actually live in the real world is that you think New England is somehow entitled to perfection in all avenues. It's complete nonsense. Feel free to go back through all of NFL history and take a look at linebacking corps. Even in the pre-salary cap era, losing 2 of your starting linebackers could be devastating. Never in the history of the NFL has a team had 53, or even 45 pro bowl level players on the roster at the same time, yet that's essentially what you're demanding.

Take a look at the linebackers on some of the greatest teams of all time.
1972 Dolphins:
Buonticonti, Nick
Matheson, Bob
Ball, Larry
Swift, Doug
Powell, Jesse
Kolen, Mike

1975 Steelers:
Ed Bradley
Jack Ham
Jack Lambert
Andy Russell
Loren Toews
Marv Kellum

Skipping ahead...

1985 Bears:
Brian Cabral
Wilber Marshall
Jim Morrissey
Ron Rivera
Mike Singletary
Cliff Thrift
Otis Wilson


Now, where are all the awesome bench players on those squads that would make losing 2 linebackers a non-issue?

 

[Deus Irae]

1) You want LBs, you got 'em:

2000 - I wanted Adalius Thomas with one of the two 5th-round picks; instead, the FO chose DL Jeff Marriott(!?!) and TE Dave Stachelski.
2001 - I wanted Ed Hartwell (or WR Justin McCareins) with the 4th-rounder used to select TE Jabari Holloway.
2002 - I wanted Trev (cousin of Kevin) Faulk with the 7th-rounder used to select RB Antoine Womack.
2003 - I would have waited until the 6th round to take Dan Klecko; I then would have groomed him immediately as a SILB. If taken, then Tony Gilbert, Mario Haggan, Clifton Smith, Chris Clemons and Scott Shanle were still on the board.
2004 - I wanted Karlos Dansby with the 1st-rounder used to select Ben Watson. I then would have attempted to trade the 2nd- and 3rd-rounders to move up in the 2nd round and take Watson, who's having a great year, but I'd still draft Dansby ahead of him.
2005 - I would have signed Liam Ezekial as a UDFA.
2006 - I wanted Mark Anderson with the 5th-rounder used to select Ryan O'Callahan. Anderson's playing 4-3 DE for the Bears, but his combine #s showed that he could convert to 3-4 OLB.
2007 - I wanted the Poz instead of the Stomper. I wanted Brandon Siler with one of the late 6th-rounders or early 7th.

Now, some of the aforementioned - Faulk, the 2003 LBs, Ezekial -would not have panned-out, due to injury/ineffectiveness. But what if they had gone to NE instead? Perhaps they wouldn't have become injured, or they would've been more effective through better coaching. The point is: there have been opportunities to draft higher-caliber LBs than the flotsam and jetsam brought here this decade. The FO has chosen not to do so, at its peril.

Your point now is that stiffs who didn't pan out would have panned out, players who are finished (Hartwell) would somehow not be finished, and Thomas would somehow be a Patriot. Well, Thomas IS a Patriot, which kills that portion of the argument, and there's not a single other player on your list besides Dansby who's even a quality linebacker. So, your linebacking gripe essentially boils down to taking Dansby over Watson. That's your only remotely sensible point in all of this, and it's STILL a ridiculously weak point since the team needed to improve at tight end far more more than at linebacker at the time. The argument is further weakened by the taking of Wilfork earlier in round one to make the front seven even stronger. Here is the 2004 linebacking corps:

Vrabel
Bruschi
Colvin
Johnson
McGinest
Pfifer
Banta-Cain
Klecko

There is no rational argument that LB was a significant enough need that season that they should have gone with Dansby over Watson. New England had one of the deepest linebacking corps in recent NFL history that season. Even hindsight can't make Dansby the better pick over Watson in 2004.

 

[kriskanos]

Another draft pick bites the dust. Go ahead people, keep making excuses for Pioli. The guy has wasted numerous picks the last 2 years. Do you guys NOT think that maybe the secondary could've used a 4th rd pick in it this past week instead of Baker or Eddie "I can't cover a grill" Jackson? Puhleaze. I guess 4th rd picks are just throw away picks and not picks that can add depth to your roster, right? Wow, the last two drafts have been nothing short of BRUTAL. Then again, I guess we are just so STACKED that we can't use 1st and 2nd rd picks(Maroney, Jackson, Meriweather) on the field because we have better players to play(Faulk, Baker, Eddie Jackson).

NSA you ignorant slut! You do realize we are 11-0 right. Go home troll.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

NSA you ignorant slut! You do realize we are 11-0 right. Go home troll.

Ok, let me just be quiet, don the grey hoodie, bust out the pats coozie, and wave my pom poms! Woohoo! Puhleaze. You guys can ignore the facts that the last two drafts have given us NOTHING other than Gostowski. Hey, who knows, maybe these late rd picks and players on IR from the last two drafts will pan out. Maybe, maybe not. However, that still does not excuse the fact that our 1st and 2nd rd picks from last year have given us absolutely NOTHING(unless you consider Maroney's 8 carries a game a treasure!) in their first 2 years of their 5 year contracts and we have cut two 4th rd picks(Mills and Brown) while the immortal Kyle Eckel's, Rashad Baker's, Eddie Jackson's, and Chad Brown's of the world are claiming roster spots. If you think that there was NOONE in the draft the last 2 years in rounds 1 thru 4 that could be giving us QUALITY PRODUCTION right now, than you are naive. Pioli has flat out blown the last two drafts. End of story. We better count our lucky stars that he traded the 2nd and 4th rd picks away for Welker and Moss, because is there anyone that DOUBTS that Pioli wouldn't have used those two picks on two more JAGS to go along with the rest of JAGS and BUSTS that he drafted the last two years???? I hope we keep trading picks away for veterans, because we have been TERRIBLE drafting college players the last 2 years. Terrible.

 

[patsgo]

Ok, let me just be quiet, don the grey hoodie, bust out the pats coozie, and wave my pom poms! Woohoo! Puhleaze. You guys can ignore the facts that the last two drafts have given us NOTHING other than Gostowski. Hey, who knows, maybe these late rd picks and players on IR from the last two drafts will pan out. Maybe, maybe not. However, that still does not excuse the fact that our 1st and 2nd rd picks from last year have given us absolutely NOTHING(unless you consider Maroney's 8 carries a game a treasure!) in their first 2 years of their 5 year contracts and we have cut two 4th rd picks(Mills and Brown) while the immortal Kyle Eckel's, Rashad Baker's, Eddie Jackson's, and Chad Brown's of the world are claiming roster spots. If you think that there was NOONE in the draft the last 2 years in rounds 1 thru 4 that could be giving us QUALITY PRODUCTION right now, than you are naive. Pioli has flat out blown the last two drafts. End of story. We better count our lucky stars that he traded the 2nd and 4th rd picks away for Welker and Moss, because is there anyone that DOUBTS that Pioli wouldn't have used those two picks on two more JAGS to go along with the rest of JAGS and BUSTS that he drafted the last two years???? I hope we keep trading picks away for veterans, because we have been TERRIBLE drafting college players the last 2 years. Terrible.

11 and 0 11 and 0 11and 0 11 and 0 11 and 0 11 and 0 please go away please go away, if you are a super bowl team you dont want garbage rookies can you get that through your thick head

 

[National Sports Advisors]

11 and 0 11 and 0 11and 0 11 and 0 11 and 0 11 and 0 please go away please go away, if you are a super bowl team you dont want garbage rookies can you get that through your thick head

LOL! Ok. So we want garbage vets like Eddie Jackson, Rashad Baker, Chad Brown, and Kyle Eckel instead?

 

[patsgo]

LOL! Ok. So we want garbage vets like Eddie Jackson, Rashad Baker, Chad Brown, and Kyle Eckel instead?

they are 50 to 53 on the roster all teams have pkaters like that at least those guys are experienced instead of a unproven garbage rookie

 

[spacecrime]

Ok, let me just be quiet, don the grey hoodie, bust out the pats coozie, and wave my pom poms!

Do you realize we are 11-0? Do you understand how rare that is? And what a terrific achievement. Do you realize we are odds on favorite to win the SB? Do you think that perhaps BB knows almost as much as you do about NFL personnel and maybe you should cut him a little slack?

 

[BlitzFritz]

NSA is just one of the many supremely arrogant poster troll types.

can he for one second admit ANY of the following

1. this team has more depth than almost any other team. hence it is MUCH harder for good rookies to stick

2. many many of our drafted rookies have stuck in the NFL, just on other teams! (dude wake up!!)

3. the objective is NOT to have a lot of rookies stick. it is ot win games. (11-0) what BB and Pioli see in talent might be little bit more insightful than what he sees. (11-0). they might actually have a bigger plan than meets the eye.

NSA have you EVER started a positive thread about the Pats? pls give us your background, because I sstrongly suspect you are NOT a NE Pats fan, but are actually a troll. defend that claim w facts. i doubt you will, since you dont defend your other claims w facts either

your pla, BlitzFritz

 

[patsgo]

Do you realize we are 11-0? Do yoku understand how rare that is?

hes the typical person that if he won a million bucks hed be upset he didnt win 2 million,

 

[Pats726]

hes the typical person that if he won a million bucks hed be upset he didnt win 2 million,

BRAVO!!!!!!

 

[PatriotsRiot93]

FRICKING Jets....argh.....I hate them a little more each and every week....