Kareem Brown to Jets

[Deus Irae]

Do you mean that part which called the draft, aside from the trades, a disaster?

Premature? Possibly.

Harsh? Probably.

Ridiculous? Not so far. There's only Meriweather, Richardson and Lua remaining. I hope I'm wrong on those 3. I like to eat humble pie, too.

The "aside from the trades" bit doesn't really apply in this case, IMO. When a team aggressively trades out of the draft to the tune of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 7th-round picks, there is no "aside from the trades" -- the trades WERE the draft.

First off, Patchick pretty much nails it. However, to delve a little bit more deeply, take note of what people have been saying about this Patriots team for the past few years: it's a very deep team. Now, with the caveat that I'm relying on Wikipedia for the current status of the draftees, let's look at the drafting (not the trades, just the drafting) again:

2007 NFL DRAFT
1 24 (24) Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL)
- Clearly still in the picture

4 28 (127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
-- Waived just this past week, picked up by Jets

5* 34 (171) Clint Oldenburg OL Colorado State University
-- Currently on the Jets practice squad

6 6 (180) Justin Rogers DE Southern Methodist University
-- Picked up by the Cowboys, a top 5 NFL team

6 28 (202) Mike Richardson CB Notre Dame
-- Still on team, on IR

6* 34 (208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
-- Practice squad for the Colts

6* 35 (209) Corey Hilliard T Oklahoma State
-- On the Colts, a top 5 NFL team

7 1 (211) Oscar Lua ILB USC
-- Still on the team, on IR

7* 37 (247) Mike Elgin OL University of Iowa
-- Colts practice squad

Now, when you have a deep team, that means you have a situation where you're not going to find a lot of players in the bottom of the draft that are better than what's already on the team. Not surprisingly, therefore, guys like Mike Elgin aren't likely to beat out Stephen Neal or even Russ Hochstein.

However, every single one of the Patriots 2007 draft picks, IN A DRAFT THE TEAM CONSIDERED TO BE WEAK, is still either on an NFL roster or an NFL practice squad. Now, to 2006:

2006 NFL DRAFT
1 21 (21) Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
-- Clearly still in the picture, he's the starting RB

2 4-d (36) Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
-- Injured in both seasons, but still on the team

3 22 (86) David Thomas, TE, Texas
-- Injured but still on the team (IR)

4 9-b (106) Garret Mills, TE, Tulsa
-- On the Minnesota Vikings

4 21 (118) Stephen Gostkowski, K, Memphis
-- The kicker for the Patriots

5 3-c (136) Ryan O'Callaghan , OT, California
-- Still on team, was competing for the starting RT position in training camp

6 22-* (191) Jeremy Mincey, OL/DE, Florida
-- On the Jacksonville Jaguars

6 36-* (205) Dan Stevenson, OL, Notre Dame
-- Currently not on any team or practice squad

6 37 (206) Le Kevin Smith, NT, Nebraska
-- Still on the Patriots

7 21 (209) Willie Andrews, CB/S, Baylor
-- Still on the Patriots

In other words, in the past two drafts, the Patriots have drafted 19 players, with 15 of them being drafted in the 4th round or lower. Of the 19 players, only 1 is not currently on an NFL roster or practice squad. The notion that this team has drafted poorly in the last two seasons is not only wrong, it's ludicrous. Let's look at that number set again:

2 draft classes
19 picks overall
4 first day picks
15 second day picks
15 players still on NFL rosters
3 players on NFL practice squads
1 player out of the league entirely


Let me give you a bit of a tip for your future reference. If National Sports Advisors says something about the Patriots, the odds are about 99% certain that you should go the opposite way if you want to be right.

 

[patsgo]

I just mentioned on another thread that the Jets have as many of our

2007 draft choices on their 53 man roster as we do (grand total of one).

Three out of nine is pretty lousy no matter how good the drafting team is.

If the Pats were going to blow away the 2007 draft, why didn't they

trade away all their choices except for the four complementary picks?

you need someone to trde with if the draft was garbage other teams didnt want them either

 

[primetime]

Rogers has 9 ST tackles and showed some solid footwork and hustle during the preseason. A project for a 3-4 OLB, at worst.
http://www.nfl.com/players/justinrogers/profile?id=ROG444987

Chad "The defender was overpowered" Brown has little to no future in the NFL. I only hope he has enough to finish out this season. :bricks:

Wow, 9 ST tackles. He's a project for 3-4 OLB at best.

I'll trust our front office's judgment on whether players are done or not over yours, thank you.

 

[shmessy]

Maybe someday he'll outplay Santonio Thomas.

Makes you wonder what it would have hurt to just throw darts at every player with LB next to his name?

Or if we didn't just dangle Justin Rogers out there in August/September.

 

[bresna]

BTW, after all the big stink Minnesota made over the Garrett Mills acquisition, the guy has yet to be activated on game day. He'd have probably played by week 3 here. I wonder if he's happy how it went down?

 

[BlitzFritz]

thank you Deus Irae for bringing some facts to the insanity that sometimes invades our boards abou the draft. i think many of us knew intuitively that the Pats depth is a contributing factor to cutting many of our draftees, but your analysis made it crystal clear.

it would be nice to see you post this on its own thread.. it might stop the whining.

prolly not tho!

 

[ATippett56]

I think they are more concerned with this year than three years down the road.

Chad Brown brings nothing to the table, as evident during the 2005 NFL season.

 

[captain stone]

Now, when you have a deep team, that means you have a situation where you're not going to find a lot of players in the bottom of the draft that are better than what's already on the team. Not surprisingly, therefore, guys like Mike Elgin aren't likely to beat out Stephen Neal or even Russ Hochstein.

Totally agree that some position groups - OL, DL, WR, QB - were already close to the limit heading into the draft. So why did the FO draft 3 lightly-regarded OLinemen, when other positions - LB, CB, S - could have used multiple picks?

However, every single one of the Patriots 2007 draft picks, IN A DRAFT THE TEAM CONSIDERED TO BE WEAK, is still either on an NFL roster or an NFL practice squad.

I don't have any #s to confirm, but, after < one year, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that most of the other 31 teams' picks are still in the league, be it on the 53, PS, or IR.

In other words, in the past two drafts, the Patriots have drafted 19 players, with 15 of them being drafted in the 4th round or lower. Of the 19 players, only 1 is not currently on an NFL roster or practice squad. The notion that this team has drafted poorly in the last two seasons is not only wrong, it's ludicrous. Let's look at that number set again:

2 draft classes
19 picks overall
4 first day picks
15 second day picks
15 players still on NFL rosters
3 players on NFL practice squads
1 player out of the league entirely

Out of the 18 players on 53s/PSs, 8 of them are already with teams other than the NEP. While it is good that they are employed, it does the NEP no good at all.

DI, I respect and appreciate the perspectives that you and Patchick bring, incl. this thread. I just don't think it ludicrous to suggest that the backups to the oldest starting LBs in the NFL should consist of more than 2 UDFAs, a 33-yo STer and a 37-yo street FA; and that half of those backups should be well-regarded draft picks ready to step up. Or that at least one more CB should have been drafted in the last two years, instead of only one (a lightly-regarded - even for a late 6th-rounder - CB from defensive lightweight ND), when half of our top 6 DBs are UFAs after this season.

Hey, I'm only sayin'.

 

[Deus Irae]

DI, I respect and appreciate the perspectives that you and Patchick bring, incl. this thread. I just don't think it ludicrous to suggest that the backups to the oldest starting LBs in the NFL should consist of more than 2 UDFAs, a 33-yo STer and a 37-yo street FA; and that half of those backups should be well-regarded draft picks ready to step up. Or that at least one more CB should have been drafted in the last two years, instead of only one (a lightly-regarded - even for a late 6th-rounder - CB from defensive lightweight ND), when half of our top 6 DBs are UFAs after this season.

Hey, I'm only sayin'.

There are 3 things you should have before posting something like you did, though, given your stated parameters above:

1.) Search the NFL to find all the cornerbacks who were drafted in rounds 4-7 in the past two seasons and are playing significant time for good teams or have shown true quality as players. Unless you find dozens of them, your point really has no validity.

2.) Find even ONE young linebacker that has made an impact in New England in his first or second season as something other than a special teams player. New England plays a 3-4 system which uses big linebackers across the board.

3.) Tell people which trades you would not have made, and why.


It's easy to comment about what you perceive needs to be, but does your list of needs mean that you wish they hadn't given up a second and a seventh for Welker, for example? After all, at the end of last season, it was wide receivers that everyone was clamoring for. Also, I'm pretty sure that the Patriots addressed their linebacker issues in the past offseason when they brought in the #1 free agent on the market, Adalius Thomas. It's clear from some of Belioli's comments that they felt last year was a very weak draft, at least as some positions. Patrick Willis didn't drop to the 4th round, after all.

 

[primetime]

Chad Brown brings nothing to the table, as evident during the 2005 NFL season.

They played him at ILB that year. He had never played that position before. He is a OLB, and always has been. At his more natural position, you have to believe he has some worth; Belichick wouldn't have brought him back if that wasn't the case.

 

[loosebearing]

The most active threads on this site the last few days have been about the value of the 2006 and 2007 Draft.

The team is 11-0
They have gone to the playoffs 6 out of last 7 seasons
They have had 7 straight winning seasons
They have won 21 straight (24 counting playoffs)
They MIGHT go 16 (19) this year
Ohh and they have won 3 (4) SuperBowls in the past 6 (7) years

And the ARROGANCE of posters to evaluate one small aspect of what MIGHT come to be a problem is what members of this site focus on???

I'll take Bellicheck and Pioli's thought processes and decisions over any of the get a lifer's babbling.

The only MIGHT problem that will matter in the foreseable future is either Kraft, Bellicheck, or Pioli leaving.

 

[godef]

Defensive lineman Kareem Brown, who was waived by the Patriots on Tuesday, has been claimed by the New York Jets.

The Ravens and 49ers had also placed a waiver claim on Brown. But since the Jets have the worst record among the three teams at 2-9, they were awarded Brown.

The Patriots drafted Brown in the fourth round out of the University of Miami. Brown did not appear in a game this season and it was presumed that he would return to the Patriots' practice squad if he cleared waivers.

Whoops. Add another Pats touchdown to the final score vs the Jets in 3 weeks.

 

[captain stone]

There are 3 things you should have before posting something like you did, though, given your stated parameters above:

1.) Search the NFL to find all the cornerbacks who were drafted in rounds 4-7 in the past two seasons and are playing significant time for good teams or have shown true quality as players. Unless you find dozens of them, your point really has no validity.

2006: Alan Zemaitis (inj.), Will Blackmon, Charles Gordon, Marcus Hudson, DeMario Minter (inj.), Derrick Martin
2007: Tarell Brown, David Irons, Anthony Arline, Courtney Brown, Michael Coe, Corey Graham
EDIT: I should have included Tim Mixon from our PS in my prior post. He may have a better career than Mike Richardson.

2.) Find even ONE young linebacker that has made an impact in New England in his first or second season as something other than a special teams player. New England plays a 3-4 system which uses big linebackers across the board.

The only LBs drafted since 2000 are: Casey Tisdale, TJ Turner, TBC, Ryan Claridge, Jeremy Mincey, Justin Rogers and Oscar Lua. Only one of those were selected earlier than the 6th round, and - with the exception of TBC -for good reason. Maybe if BB/SP had brought in a young, better-regarded LB earlier in the draft, he would have made a more immediate impact and, not unimportantly, would know this defense by now.

3.) Tell people which trades you would not have made, and why.
It's easy to comment about what you perceive needs to be, but does your list of needs mean that you wish they hadn't given up a second and a seventh for Welker, for example? After all, at the end of last season, it was wide receivers that everyone was clamoring for. Also, I'm pretty sure that the Patriots addressed their linebacker issues in the past offseason when they brought in the #1 free agent on the market, Adalius Thomas. It's clear from some of Belioli's comments that they felt last year was a very weak draft, at least as some positions. Patrick Willis didn't drop to the 4th round, after all.

No, that does not mean that I wish the FO had not given up a 2nd and 7th for Welker, or a 4th for Moss. I thought that those were good trades then. What that does mean is that there were still 9 picks remaining, and the FO did not maximize those picks, IMO.

Signing AD was excellent; a couple more LBs were/are needed, through either free agency or the draft. Again, JMO, but there is no reason why young LBs cannot be drafted, perhaps - mirabile dictu - in the top 100, and developed over the years to learn from these outstanding veterans who, unfortunately, are nearing retirement. We may shortly see whether Woods and Alexander have learned anything. Heaven help us if they haven't.

 

[JustWinBrady]

They have won 21 straight (24 counting playoffs)

The above is an incorrect statement. The Pats have an NFL record 18 game regular season win streak and a NFL 21 consectuve game win streak, including playoffs.

 

[Deus Irae]

Captain Stone, I'll address your points one at a time, and I'll start with #2:

2.) Find even ONE young linebacker that has made an impact in New England in his first or second season as something other than a special teams player. New England plays a 3-4 system which uses big linebackers across the board.

The only LBs drafted since 2000 are: Casey Tisdale, TJ Turner, TBC, Ryan Claridge, Jeremy Mincey, Justin Rogers and Oscar Lua. Only one of those were selected earlier than the 6th round, and - with the exception of TBC -for good reason. Maybe if BB/SP had brought in a young, better-regarded LB earlier in the draft, he would have made a more immediate impact and, not unimportantly, would know this defense by now.

First, you concede the point that none of the players drafted for the position have started off as impact players. You then attempt to 'defend' this by denigrating the players that were actually chosen. However, as you note, TBC made it as a 7th rounder and, as people keep trying to point out, he was a converted defensive end (and had been a linebacker prior to that).

Now, given that not a single one of Belioli's first round draft picks have been busts to date, exactly how would you have made this move? Remember that Ted Johnson retired early due to concussions, Vrabel was just a backup in Pittsburgh, Thomas played multiple positions in Baltimore and Chad Brown and Monty Biesel (among others) couldn't handle what was asked of them. It's clear that a "Belichick" linebacker is a rare and special breed of player. Vilma, for another example, whom some wanted so desperately, has been a washout in a similar system in New York, and TBC hasn't exactly set the world on fire in San Francisco. Despite the way it's portrayed, Belioli have brought in many linebackers in an attempt to bolster the corps. It's simply been a case where most of them have not been up to the task. I'm sure he'll keep looking.

 

[psychoPat]

....

In other words, in the past two drafts, the Patriots have drafted 19 players, with 15 of them being drafted in the 4th round or lower. Of the 19 players, only 1 is not currently on an NFL roster or practice squad. The notion that this team has drafted poorly in the last two seasons is not only wrong, it's ludicrous. Let's look at that number set again:

2 draft classes
19 picks overall
4 first day picks
15 second day picks
15 players still on NFL rosters
3 players on NFL practice squads
1 player out of the league entirely


....

Don't you really hate it? when someone
interrupts and deflects the free flow of
misinformation and misguided opinion
with a totally unwanted, careful array of facts
that cannot be disputed !

Whatever happened to free speech on this messageboard?

 

[tombonneau]

I think people who try to gauge Day One prospects before three years have passed, let alone 2/3 of his rookie year should be summarily BOUNCED from any discussion of football outside of two-hand touch. This site used to be a good source of savvy, mature insights. Sad.

Really? I can't make a judgment on Adrian Peterson?

 

[ATippett56]

They played him at ILB that year. He had never played that position before. He is a OLB, and always has been. At his more natural position, you have to believe he has some worth; Belichick wouldn't have brought him back if that wasn't the case.

Chad Brown is useless, worthless, and washed-up. If you like your linebackers steamrolled, Chad Brown is the man for the job.

 

[primetime]

Chad Brown is useless, worthless, and washed-up. If you like your linebackers steamrolled, Chad Brown is the man for the job.

Glad Pioli and Belichick are the talent evaluators and not you.

 

[danny88]

Glad Pioli and Belichick are the talent evaluators and not you.

It is quite funny to watch some posters asking for others to be banned if they think the pats might have ( oh my) done something questionable. Or like your post above just dismiss anyone who may think Pioli and Beli are human and could make a mistake.


Chad Brown is terrible.