Just the worst ....

[patsfan-1982]

the 49ers oc is with the san diego so the young QB just might suck and they go 3-13 or they can go 13-3 what ever the point is who was we going to take at 28 ? beason was gone and i dont think they would have takeing him any way and we dont need OL help we are set there and takeing a RB with 28 would be crazy most of the people that that did not like the draft where just mad cause thew watched for 11 houers and we only picked one guy

 

[zippo59]

Whenever people bring up the value chart when assessing a trade I usually tune right out. That is an arbitrary system made up by one guy. It has no legitimacy and it is not official. The value of picks change depending on the situation and the team.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

There's no question about it, this was a tremendously boring day to be a Pats fan. However, I'm pretty sure BB doesn't factor in our entertainment into his draft day plans.

That said, it's troubling we didn't do much to improve our depth situation on defense on Day 1. We all like the Thomas signing, but if he goes down, as it stands Sat. night, we're right back to where we were last year at LB which, at least last year, and with apologies to Eric Alexander, wasn't good enough to get us to a SB.

I agree with your assesment of SF. Everyone is evaluating SF based on last year's roster. Things change. SF is a better team (on paper) than they were at the end of last year. It's reasonable to believe their record might be better as well. I expect their pick is in the 15-20 range, which is quite good, not that I'll get excited about it. For all we know BB may trade one or both of those 1st round picks for more picks in 2009.

The bottom line is we got a real nice safety on Day 1 and hopefully add some younger defensive players with upside on Day 2.

 

[arrellbee]

Ken

You have explained in many previous posts how it would be very difficult if not impossible for us, as armchair coaches, to really understand the tradeoffs on playcalling with such lack of information about situational considerations and film that is available to the team, much less the amount of hours they spend going over those things. And similar comments about evaluation of schemes and players, etc.

I am a huge fan of YOURS. Great to have an opportunity to hear your perspectives and great info.

I have to think you may be reacting to not having more players to ooh and ahh over at this point. But, similar to what I mentioned above, I think it is really almost impossible for us to have a clue as to what the professional evaluation of Belichick, Pioli, and staff is on the players that were available at the picks they had today. I really have to believe that they truly didn't think the players available had the probability of contributing at the level of value of the pick. We certainly know that the Patriots will NOT take a player just to take a player.

We also know that Pioli and his staff, and probably Belichick, are already evaluating players in future draft years. I think, despite what everyone seems to feel, that we fans have little chance of a serious high probability evaluation of any of the players in this years draft, much less future years.

I understand your comment of 'current value' versus 'future value'. But, they may have a different evaulation of what future value is worth than we might or pundits might. Without just having blind faith in BB/SP, I really would be awfully surprised if they didn't have a pretty solid notion of those relative values and that their actions today were sound with respect to their valuation.

It strikes me that the trade of a second round pick for Welker fits in closely with what we observed today. If they didn't feel there was value at the 28th pick and at the 92nd pick, they probably didn't feel there was much value for their second round pick as well and Welker represented a far much more proven and definite value than what they could see available at the second round pick. I think that's an interesting thing to reflect on.

I am also a little surprised that you feel that SF will be significantly stronger next year. My impression is that they overachieved last year and may be lucky to do even as well this year. But only next season will tell us that.

I suspect we will all be looking more closely this time at how the players that the Patriots 'could have had' do over the next 2 or 3 years. Hindsight will be fascinating.

I think my overall reaction to the tradeoff of picks was much less negative than the thought that: "Now isn't THAT interesting".

/cheers

 

[gomezcat]

I wouldn't write off this draft just yet. There are some real sleepers still on the board at CB, with people like Courtney Brown, De Andre Jackson, Fred Bennett and CJ Wilson.
At ILB, Bishop, Blades, Siler and Abbate are still there. OLB/DE has some potentially good picks left, as does WR. Tackle and Guard still have guys I'd be happy to pick for depth. I'm not so sure about RB, though.
I'm with the FO on this. You have to trust your scouts, especially as ours are in-house and not pooled with other teams. If they tell you that 2008 is a much better class, then it would be to the long-term detriment of the team to miss out on the opportunity to re-stock then.

 

[italian pat patriot]

again the NE Patriots probably surpirsed us, surely myself.

my opinion is that probably BB and SP considered next year draft much more then this year draft and probably that very few rookis this year will make the team

anyway only 1 players choosen is surely a suprise for me but i like the pick

now i would like to take 2 right picks with the 4th round (a lb with priority, if i'm not De Ossie and Siler are still free) and anyway i'm not so unhappy to have 5 picks in the next year 1 day draft

still i think that the SF pick will be in the 15-20 range

 

[Ahriman]

Oh please. You're all just jilted that you were bored out of your minds yesterday. After all of the "sexy" picks early in the draft last year, this is somewhat of a letdown. But guess what? The overall quality of this draft pales in comparison. It's a joke.

I see others, Da Bruinz and co., whining about what Dallas got or what Jacksonville did. Why is it so hard for people to figure out that the Patriots didn't have a carrot, in the form of Brady Quinn, or whoever else teams moved up to get ahead of the Pats, to dangle in front of teams. Yes, the Browns got fleeced, but that sort of deal wasn't available to the Patriots. So STOP USING THOSE TRADES AS EXAMPLES OF HOW THE PATRIOTS COULD'VE GOTTEN MORE! I mean, it's one thing if Quinn somehow made it past KC and the team did the same deal only to watch whoever was behind them cash in, but... HE DIDN'T LAST THAT LONG! Those situations were unique to the respective teams involved. Can't just superimpose the Pats over whoever traded down in those other deals and say " Hey, look what the Pats could've done!"

Yeah, sure, there is am element of risk involved with trading for a 1st next year and hoping that the 49ers continue their recent tradition of sucktitude, but the potential value in that risk, in an apparently much deeper draft, simply outweighed whatever could be had this year.

Most importantly, the team still has nine freaking picks.

 

[Watsons_buddy]

I really don't see how you could be upset. BB and Pioli didn't think the value was there. they stocked up for next year and got Meriweather and Welker in the first 2 rounds along with an extra pick for next year. I think Belichick and Pioli should have worn a ski mask for how they stole picks.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

There's a temptation to ascribe superhuman smarts like that, just because we're homers, but it looks like it boils down to moving this year's early rounds to next year's early rounds, and having done with it. Whattayagonnado. They're not superman but they're smarter than we are.

Oh, how frustrating. But next year is where they thought the value was.

I am sure the Foxboro brain trust would rather have gotten better value vis a vis the chart. Belichick did actually say a couple of days ago that people were going nuts trying to trade out of the high picks this year, and might have to throw out the chart... evidently, when it came down to it, they believed that about this year's class, period.

Well, last year's class put up some numbers and some productivity... wonder what we'll see from this group.

"We'll get 'em next year" guys. I like saying that in April rather than December.

PFnV

 

[naclone]

i think it's fair to be critical of the return on the trade of the picks because there is an established value system in place. BB did point out on friday that that system was out the window this year for whatever reasons. but still.

as far as being critical of having not picked various players. i ask you simply, based on what?

you have no idea how the pats draft board sets up. BB said on friday there will be guys drafted in the first round who we have rated as Undrafted. wouldn't it also seem likely then that the opposite is true? that they have some highly ranked guys who will go at the end of the draft?

you guys know this. the pats system is different than the other 31 teams. its certainly different than what your expectations are.

NE could wind up with 10 of their top 20 rated players this weekend you'd never know it. that is the reality.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

i think it's fair to be critical of the return on the trade of the picks because there is an established value system in place. BB did point out on friday that that system was out the window this year for whatever reasons. but still.
...NE could wind up with 10 of their top 20 rated players this weekend you'd never know it. that is the reality.

Both fair points. SF virtually raped the rest of the league in terms of the deals they got, as I recall. So okay, maybe the deals could have been better.

As to your idea that the rest of the league just cleared away deadwood in the early rounds, and now we're getting to the guys the Pats really wanted? There's some of that effect, probably, but a lot more of "Oh crap, there goes that guy. You have anybody else that good this round? Me neither... hold on, Oakland on line 2..."

PFnV

 

[dhamz]

All week everywhere you looked you read this is a weak draft. Everyone was saying on the radio and in the papers Friday/Sat that the Pats wanted out of round 1 with one if not both picks because there were not enough first round talents this year.

The Patriots CLEARLY believe that. The first sign of that should have been the Welker move. Giving a 2 for him now makes infinitely more sense when you factor in their view of the talent available in this draft. The head coach was on WEEI on Friday and said that guys who would be drafted on Day 1 had UDFA grades on the Pats board. He said in a draft that everyone wanted to move down, you can't stick to the value chart, you have to ask if the deal makes sense for what you are trying to do regardless of the chart. That is what they did.

There is little to no chance that SF's 2008 1st will be lower than 28 or that Oakland's #3 will be lower than 91. Even if the draft is just as weak which is probably unlikely as well, they think those will be better picks. I'd expect the Pats are going to continue to try to deal some of today's 9 picks for 2008 picks.

I can't get upset about the moves. Then again, I'm not a guy who is big into the draft. I spent yesterday golfing. If I spent weeks analyzing the draft and 11 hours watching that dullathon yesterday maybe I'd be upset.

 

[shmessy]

At least now I don't see anyone worrying about BB and Pioli leaving for the Giants after next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[naclone]

As to your idea that the rest of the league just cleared away deadwood in the early rounds, and now we're getting to the guys the Pats really wanted? There's some of that effect, probably, but a lot more of "Oh crap, there goes that guy. You have anybody else that good this round? Me neither... hold on, Oakland on line 2..."

PFnV

there's probably some of that going on too, tho i would argue that the pats had the ammo to move up on any of the "oh crap" guys and didn't feel a need to. so while they probably would have taken some of them if they were there at the pick, they also didn't like them enough to go get them. and we know they are willing to go get guys we've never heard of. they do it all the time. ergo, i don't think they liked any of the guys who supposedly got drafted out from under us.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

At least now I don't see anyone worrying about BB and Pioli leaving for the Giants after next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What!!!!! I thought them carpetbaggers was finally going home with their Lombardis tucked a-tween their legs? Dadblastit! What's next, one of them Jewish felluhs buying the team? Or maybe one of them sissy safety razor companies gettin' the stadium named after'em? Ain't nothin' sacred no more. :enranged:

 

[ctpatsfan1]

although I respect many of the dissenting opinions posted I have to disagree that day 1 for the Pats wasn't successful. Basically what they came out of day 1 (arguably a very weak draft class) was a future starting safety and a PR/WR replacement for an aging Troy Brown. Now in my book that fills two very specific and high ranking needs. Did they get the future starting ILB we all wanted, obviously not, but sometimes you don't always get what you want. Did they have the best day 1 draft of any team, no, but they had a successful one and IMHO that is more important. Bottomline day 1 they got two players who will contribute and upgrade the team and their respective positions immediately. You really can't ask for more than that.

 

[Brarrell]

although I respect many of the dissenting opinions posted I have to disagree that day 1 for the Pats wasn't successful. Basically what they came out of day 1 (arguably a very weak draft class) was a future starting safety and a PR/WR replacement for an aging Troy Brown. Now in my book that fills two very specific and high ranking needs. Did they get the future starting ILB we all wanted, obviously not, but sometimes you don't always get what you want. Did they have the best day 1 draft of any team, no, but they had a successful one and IMHO that is more important. Bottomline day 1 they got two players who will contribute and upgrade the team and their respective positions immediately. You really can't ask for more than that.

By the way Miami panicked and picked Ginn to replace what Welker gave them. The #10 pick in the draft.

 

[desi-patsfan]

man, i am glad BelichickFan is around. Some of the posts here have been so absurd.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Who was that Bob Sanders guy we kept hearing about last year and how tall is he ?


Nope. Wrong.

SF allowed the most points in the league last year.
SF scored the 9th least points in the league last year.

Does that sound like a team closer to 30 than 15 ? Not to me.




Sigh.

A late 3rd vs. an early third. Not QUITE a full round gain but close.

Third round picks aren't all created equal.

Seriously, Ken, this was a pitiful post from a great poster. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I agree, I think we just got our version of Bob Sanders and after the Pats win the Superbowl they will be stocked with two 1st rounders and two 3rd rounders.

 

[BelichickFan]

I know you have 12000+ posts, but I just don't agree.

I don't care how many posts I have, that means nothing. But the 49ers were awful last year, last in points allowed, 23rd in points scored.

You're right they're young and could improve. However their division is improved, their schedule is tough for an NFC schedule and they lost their OC. If they're .500 I'll be surprised.