Josh Norman is now a free agent - Panthers removed franchise tag

[borisman]

I had some doubts about Butler after that first game. But A.Brown abuses pretty much everyone and Butler did make some plays vs. him and never gave up trying. He's not a true #1 shutdown but there aren't that many out there. We need to re-sign him and the other FA's to be. Man, I hope they're (HT, JC) not thinking "Brady has a couple of years left and why should I leave money on the table if we won't have the GOAT shoulder a lot of the load in 2 or 3 years".

 

[JMC00]

Out of curiosity, did Butler prove himself last year to be the kind of #1 CB that demands the best kind of money to keep?

As much as I love Butler, intellectually I think of him as a #2 kind of talent (but still improving).

I would definitely love to be wrong about this.

If it wasn't for a McCourty rare brain fart he would have completely shut down Beckham and it would have been Beckham's worst game of the season. After that long TD which was the giants 1st drive, Beckham had 3 rec for 17 yards the rest of the game. That game right there was example enough that he is a #1.

 

[jimnance]

Out of curiosity, did Butler prove himself last year to be the kind of #1 CB that demands the best kind of money to keep?

As much as I love Butler, intellectually I think of him as a #2 kind of talent (but still improving).

I would definitely love to be wrong about this.

Well then, I guess you can thank me, because you definitely are wrong. He was a probowl #1cb who was better than revis last year by almost any measuring stick you wanna use. If he's not a #1cb, then there's no such thing

 

[Danger Zone]

Hey, I'm glad to be wrong. I just felt that he was too (understandably) struggled to remain consistent over the stretch (despite moments of greatness) to be considered a true #1.

But maybe the better argument to be having with myself is not whether he is a true #1 CB, but whether he is a top 5/top 10/shutdown kind of CB.

Either way, I'm more than glad to acquiesce the point. Butler is a #1 CB. I'll take that.

 

[jimnance]

Hey, I'm glad to be wrong. I just felt that he was too (understandably) inconsistent over the stretch (despite moments of greatness) to be considered a true #1.

But maybe the better argument to be having with myself is not whether he is a true #1 CB, but whether he is a top 5/top 10 CB.

Either way, I'm more than glad to acquiesce the point. Butler is a #1 CB. I'll take that.

No prob man. As far as "elite", I guess it depends on your definition. Cant remember what site it was, but they had him ranked#5 in the entire NFL last year based on a bunch of different metrics. That would certainly make him "elite" in comparison to all the other cbs in the NFL right now. Is he revis from 5-6 years ago? No, but who is. Like you said in your op post tho, he IS improving. How much remains to be seen.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I had some doubts about Butler after that first game. But A.Brown abuses pretty much everyone and Butler did make some plays vs. him and never gave up trying. He's not a true #1 shutdown but there aren't that many out there. We need to re-sign him and the other FA's to be. Man, I hope they're (HT, JC) not thinking "Brady has a couple of years left and why should I leave money on the table if we won't have the GOAT shoulder a lot of the load in 2 or 3 years".

How is he not a true #1?

 

[Marinlik]

Yea. Logan Ryan is solid. Someone just might shell out the coin.....

BOLD PREDICTION: Roberts takes over by mid-season for Logan.

I don't really expect anything from Roberts. The odds for a late round guy spending his first year on IR is not good. Most don't make it. But it would be really good if be could turn his athleticism to solid play.

The thing with corners is that a few teams see a guy play really good as a nr2, and then think "OMG, he can shut down people. We need him". And they seem to forget that they meet the second best WR. Will be interesting. It will be interesting to see if teams start to go back on that because they see how it fails.

What is also interesting is how BB often places his best CB on the second best receiver, and doubles the best WR. It's a different tactic that kind of works on how few CB can actually shut down a top WR with how good the WRs are today, and what the rules are. That kind of changes the CB dynamic of the Pats.

 

[Tony2046]

OBJ vs Josh Norman two times a year? Finally a reason to put the NFC East on all those primetime games.

That will be fun to see.

 

[Marinlik]

He was a Pro Bowl cornerback, and not as a replacement. Plus, it isn't like he is one of those guys who gets voted in past their prime due to past achievements. It would seem to me that at the very least he is a #1 CB.

The Pro Bowl is still very much a name competition. I'm not so sure that he would have gotten voted in if he didn't have the super bowl pick. I'm not saying anything on his 2015 performance. Just that I put very little value in players making the pro bowl, because it is a name and fame competition.

 

[lurker1965]

Then he signed with Washington and was never heard from again.

 

[chasa]

Then he signed with Washington and was never heard from again.

50 million guarenteed is a nice little golden parachute for a guy.

 

[borisman]

How is he not a true #1?

I just think there are very few shutdown corners and even though Butler had his moments I still don't consider him, right now, as a Sherman, Revis (prior to last year), Harris Jr., Talib (say what you will but when healthy...), Peterson (another one with off year) and Joe Haden types. Maybe even Vontae Davis.
One game and one year (where he wasn't shutting people down every game but did make a lot of plays) doesn't make Butler as a shutdown corner IMO.
He's #1 on this team, yeah, but let's see if joins the elite group this year.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I just think there are very few shutdown corners and even though Butler had his moments I still don't consider him, right now, as a Sherman, Revis (prior to last year), Harris Jr., Talib (say what you will but when healthy...), Peterson (another one with off year) and Joe Haden types. Maybe even Vontae Davis.
One game and one year (where he wasn't shutting people down every game but did make a lot of plays) doesn't make Butler as a shutdown corner IMO.
He's #1 on this team, yeah, but let's see if joins the elite group this year.

Respect. But there's a difference between shutdown and #1 corner. I think Butler has proven he's a #1 kind of guy. He may not be "shutdown," but I've always wondered what that is. LOL Also, you're comparing him to guys that have played a while in this league, even Harris Jr. Butler was an undrafted guy really playing a rookie season since he didn't play much as an actual rookie. Lastly, I think he's already better than Haden, getting better than Peterson (who really just had a bounce back year) and will soon be better than Talib (all just my opinion).

 

[borisman]

Respect. But there's a difference between shutdown and #1 corner. I think Butler has proven he's a #1 kind of guy. He may not be "shutdown," but I've always wondered what that is. LOL Also, you're comparing him to guys that have played a while in this league, even Harris Jr. Butler was an undrafted guy really playing a rookie season since he didn't play much as an actual rookie. Lastly, I think he's already better than Haden, getting better than Peterson (who really just had a bounce back year) and will soon be better than Talib (all just my opinion).

You asked "how is he not a true #1 corner?" True #1 means shutdown, elite types, so I listed some guys who's class he isn't quite in (yet). I hope he is what you think he is and we get him signed before the season starts. I've seen him play all year and he's not a true shutdown but man do I want him on this team, without question, and there aren't many I'd trade him for.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

If BB let Law walk sadly Butler will be no different

They paid Law with a first big contract, one of the biggest for any defensive player at the time... when it came time for his second big contract, he had missed the entire season with injury and they still won the SB with Troy Brown, etc at CB.. They also offered Revis a big contract, the Jets just went absolutely insane and made him the highest paid CB at like 30 years old which is foolish IMO

BB will pay corners top market, he just has to be certain that they're the real deal