Jimmy Graham NE Patriot?

[Joker]

chances of the Pats ever signing Jimmy Graham....

yesterday...ZERO

today...ZERO

somewhere down the line near the end of his career...50/50

 

[strngplyr]

Scott chandler on a 4 year 8m deal. You're welcome.

Dennis Pitta just got 6.5 aav, you're not getting Chandler for under 5, let alone 2.

Pre-Deals:

Dennis Pitta (28):
4 years, 47 games, 122 receptions, 1,244 yards, 11 TD
5yr(s) / $32,000,000 (6,400,000/yr)

Jared Cook (26):
4 years, 59 games, 131 receptions, 1,717 yards, 8 TD
5yr(s) / $35,100,000 (7,020,000/yr)

Delanie Walker (29):
7 years, 99 games, 123 receptions, 1,456 yards, 8 TD
4yr(s) / $17,500,000 ($4,375,000/yr)

As you can see, incredibly average tight ends get blockbuster tight end deals in todays NFL since we reinvented the positions importance in an offense.

Scott Chandler (28):
4 years, 49 games, 135 receptions, 1,623 yards, 14 TD

Looks very similar, doesn't it? Sorry for ruining your dream, you're not getting the most productive tight end of all who got deals recently for the lowest price.

 

[VJCPatriot]

For two 1sts... no. For a 1st round pick, I'd have to highly consider it. But cap reality tells me that we probably can't afford him.

 

[nabwong]

Dennis Pitta just got 6.5 aav, you're not getting Chandler for under 5, let alone 2.

Pre-Deals:

Dennis Pitta (28):
4 years, 47 games, 122 receptions, 1,244 yards, 11 TD
5yr(s) / $32,000,000 (6,400,000/yr)

Jared Cook (26):
4 years, 59 games, 131 receptions, 1,717 yards, 8 TD
5yr(s) / $35,100,000 (7,020,000/yr)

Delanie Walker (29):
7 years, 99 games, 123 receptions, 1,456 yards, 8 TD
4yr(s) / $17,500,000 ($4,375,000/yr)

As you can see, incredibly average tight ends get blockbuster tight end deals in todays NFL since we reinvented the positions importance in an offense.

Scott Chandler (28):
4 years, 49 games, 135 receptions, 1,623 yards, 14 TD

Looks very similar, doesn't it? Sorry for ruining your dream, you're not getting the most productive tight end of all who got deals recently for the lowest price.

I'm hoping that because this is a deep TE draft that teams not be as aggressive signing FA TEs.

 

[OhExaulted1]

So, we'd give up #29 this year, and, let's say, #32 next year, with Hernandez' big hit coming off the books next season for a 27 year old who's generally regarded as the best at his position (sorry patsinthesnow, I respectfully disagree) to take the field next to the generally regarded 2nd best player at that position (who's going to be 25) to catch throws and block for the GOAT at his position.

Essentially 2 high 2nd round picks and a contract not all that insanely higher than a guy we invested in that turned out to be a thug. IDK if I'd be so quick to not at least give it some serious thought.

And BTW, this TE class may be considered "deep", but I doubt it's near as good as the 2010 class, which both these 2 players derive from.

I also look at it this way. Say we do make an offer that NO has to match or better to a guy who's already indicated he's not happy being tagged as a TE instead of a WR for millions less than he's worth. The fact that we are the team to make a substantial offer for him will quite possibly be a consideration if he ever hits the open market. They can only tag him 3 times IIRC.

I agree with borg on this one. At least make it known we want him and we're serious and let NO do damage control no matter what direction they go.

 

[Sciz]

Essentially 2 high 2nd round picks and a contract not all that insanely higher than a guy we invested in that turned out to be a thug. IDK if I'd be so quick to not at least give it some serious thought.

At the time he signed his 5-year extension, Hernandez had a total seven-year cap hit of $40M, plus $2.5M in Pro Bowl incentives. Yes, his extension was widely announced as $40M/5yrs, but that's the max value (assuming five straight Pro Bowls from 2014-2018) of the new money, not accounting for the fact that they could spread out the new money into the two remaining years. He also would have been easily cuttable in any of the last three years. Had he played out 2015 and then been cut, his total cap hit for the 4 years from 2012-2015 (plus the $2.5M in dead money in 2016) would have been $19.9M.

With Graham, there's no spreading that money over cheaper years. He's supposedly looking for somewhere in the $11-12M a year range (the Saints are reportedly willing to offer more than $9M per year but are still "several million dollars per season apart"). So compared to Hernandez's whole seven years rather than just the new money on the five-year extension, we're talking at least double what Hernandez was due to make per season. Rather than having Hernandez for $20M from 2012-2015, the Pats would have to pay Graham somewhere around $45M from 2014-2017. I'd say that's approaching "insanely higher."

 

[OhExaulted1]

At the time he signed his 5-year extension, Hernandez had a total seven-year cap hit of $40M, plus $2.5M in Pro Bowl incentives. Yes, his extension was widely announced as $40M/5yrs, but that's the max value (assuming five straight Pro Bowls from 2014-2018) of the new money, not accounting for the fact that they could spread out the new money into the two remaining years. He also would have been easily cuttable in any of the last three years. Had he played out 2015 and then been cut, his total cap hit for the 4 years from 2012-2015 (plus the $2.5M in dead money in 2016) would have been $19.9M.

With Graham, there's no spreading that money over cheaper years. He's supposedly looking for somewhere in the $11-12M a year range (the Saints are reportedly willing to offer more than $9M per year but are still "several million dollars per season apart"). So compared to Hernandez's whole seven years rather than just the new money on the five-year extension, we're talking at least double what Hernandez was due to make per season. Rather than having Hernandez for $20M from 2012-2015, the Pats would have to pay Graham somewhere around $45M from 2014-2017. I'd say that's approaching "insanely higher."

I guess mentioning AH and $$$ wasn't the greatest comparison. We paid Moss 9 mil a year with a lot less cap room. We suck in the red zone without Gronk. Gronk is injured ALOT. I don't really care what we'd have to pay Graham. He's a talent that doesn't come around often AND he's durable.

You can't tell me you wouldn't get goose bumps the first time we're on the 13 and you have Gronk on one side and Graham on the other against a terrified Jets secondary and a freaking out Rex Ryan.

You wouldn't give a damn about salary cap implications at that moment. That's all I (and borg) are getting at.

 

[supafly]

I can play too.

Calvin Johnson NE Patriot?

 

[Sciz]

I can play too.

Calvin Johnson NE Patriot?

 

[OhExaulted1]

I can play too.

Calvin Johnson NE Patriot?

The Lions can't slap a tag on him until 2019.

 

[supafly]

The Lions can't slap a tag on him until 2019.

I know. I was just being mildly sarcastic due to the low odds of something like that ever happening.

Belichick isn't giving up TWO first round draft picks, let alone one first, let alone a second rounder.....for much of anyone. Those draft picks are the only way the team can get low priced rookie pacts and build their overall plan. When have we ever seen Bill give up even a 2nd rounder? I can't think of any times.

That's not even discussing the financial implications, the possible redundancy of having 2 TEs making top notch money and the waste of targets from both players that it would create, and many other variables that point to it being a ridiculous thought.

It we're going to go after a high priced top level position for big bucks and multiple high draft picks, it would probably be on the other side of the ball.

 

[VJCPatriot]

When have we ever seen Bill give up even a 2nd rounder? I can't think of any times.

That's not even discussing the financial implications, the possible redundancy of having 2 TEs making top notch money and the waste of targets from both players that it would create, and many other variables that point to it being a ridiculous thought.

He gave up a 2nd rounder for Corey Dillon from Cinci. He also gave up a 2nd and a 7th rounder for Wes Welker from Miami. So no, it's not unheard of that BB gives up draft picks for veteran players.

However, I'm not willing to give up two 1sts for Graham. Now if BB gives up say a 1st and 7th for Graham, then I'm aboard. Because I believe he would have a plan for him if he's willing to give up 1st round capital. It's unlikely that will happen but not impossible if BB thinks that move could put us over the top.

 

[Bhelmet]

A pipe dream of all pipe dreams. Even if we wanted to give up the 2-firsts, we would have to cut too many players to pay this guy. Gronk is better than Graham and if I had to rip a player from a team - I would go for Cotchery, at least he would NO longer kill us. But in all seriousness, how do we afford this guy AND the ones we NEED to sign?

 

[Sciz]

A pipe dream of all pipe dreams. Even if we wanted to give up the 2-firsts, we would have to cut too many players to pay this guy. Gronk is better than Graham and if I had to rip a player from a team - I would go for Cotchery, at least he would NO longer kill us. But in all seriousness, how do we afford this guy AND the ones we NEED to sign?

Jerry Angelo knows how. You just cut everybody on the OL that would save money.

 

[nabwong]

Belichick isn't giving up TWO first round draft picks, let alone one first, let alone a second rounder.....for much of anyone. Those draft picks are the only way the team can get low priced rookie pacts and build their overall plan. When have we ever seen Bill give up even a 2nd rounder? I can't think of any times.

I think you've got let alone reversed

 

[supafly]

He gave up a 2nd rounder for Corey Dillon from Cinci. He also gave up a 2nd and a 7th rounder for Wes Welker from Miami. So no, it's not unheard of that BB gives up draft picks for veteran players.

However, I'm not willing to give up two 1sts for Graham. Now if BB gives up say a 1st and 7th for Graham, then I'm aboard. Because I believe he would have a plan for him if he's willing to give up 1st round capital. It's unlikely that will happen but not impossible if BB thinks that move could put us over the top.

Of course...I forgot about the Welker deal, and for some reason I've always mistakenly thought that Dillon was for a 3rd.

Good catch. You're right it's been done, but I often think that many here throw around these high draft picks like it's nothing, when the reality is that it doesn't happen very often.

 

[supafly]

He gave up a 2nd rounder for Corey Dillon from Cinci. He also gave up a 2nd and a 7th rounder for Wes Welker from Miami. So no, it's not unheard of that BB gives up draft picks for veteran players.

However, I'm not willing to give up two 1sts for Graham. Now if BB gives up say a 1st and 7th for Graham, then I'm aboard. Because I believe he would have a plan for him if he's willing to give up 1st round capital. It's unlikely that will happen but not impossible if BB thinks that move could put us over the top.

I wouldn't think that N.Orleans would be too interested in parting with Graham for a 1st + 7th, but that's just my opinion.

I agree with you that it could potentially put us over the top. I just don't think it's even close to realistic for either side.

 

[varjao]

It's a dream, but I would rather trade up and get Ebron, it would cost less and we would have him for cheap money for the rest of Brady's years.

 

[supafly]

It's a dream, but I would rather trade up and get Ebron, it would cost less and we would have him for cheap money for the rest of Brady's years.

That could certainly work nicely, if they'd be inclined to move up that far--which unfortunately probably isn't too likely. Hopefully we can grab another one of the top rated TEs in the draft though.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I know. I was just being mildly sarcastic due to the low odds of something like that ever happening.

Belichick isn't giving up TWO first round draft picks, let alone one first, let alone a second rounder.....for much of anyone. Those draft picks are the only way the team can get low priced rookie pacts and build their overall plan. When have we ever seen Bill give up even a 2nd rounder? I can't think of any times.

That's not even discussing the financial implications, the possible redundancy of having 2 TEs making top notch money and the waste of targets from both players that it would create, and many other variables that point to it being a ridiculous thought.

It we're going to go after a high priced top level position for big bucks and multiple high draft picks, it would probably be on the other side of the ball.

I'll buy a defensive guy. Of course you saw VJC mention Welker and Dillon, so they have made similar yet not as pricey moves before.

What I believe is SOME TEAM is going to make an offer on or soon after the 11th if the Saints don't get something done. Going with the non-exclusive tag on him as a TE is definitely bait, and he could even hold out. I figure why not us?

I know all the cap junkies call it a pipe dream, but you'll be thinking "why didn't we take a shot at him?" if he ends up in say GB, Carolina or [gasp] the Jets.

Why? Why is that impossible? You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Goodell's table that you've missed your God-given right to something better.-William Wallace