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Is this really a defensive draft?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Mar 12, 2010.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The draft is supposed to be about 2011. Consider a projected 2011 roster and tell me if the real need is defense,

    DEFENSE
    The defense has been in a period of transformation for awhile now. We de need 2-3 front seven folks. If we get these players. the defense is set for years. We would have a solid mix of veterans and youngsters. Consider this defense with Odrick and Hughes or Dunlop or Sapp added for the future. The defense is really 2-3 players away. We may only add two.

    OFFENSE
    As we look to the team of 2011 and 2012, the offense is a mess. This may see a curious statement for me, since I have said the 2010 offense is almost set at 20 positions.

    However, if we look at the draft, which is supposed to focus of 2011 and beyond, the picture changes. We have ZERO guards for 2011. We have ZERO running backs. We have holes at WR. We need as center for 2011 or 2012
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  2. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    The pats need an even draft. Two defensive players and two offensive players with the top four picks.

    OLB, DE, RB, WR in no particular order.

    The 2011 raiders pick is going to be a WR to replace Moss.
  3. bbell31

    bbell31 Rookie

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    i dont think we need to take a rb or wr in the 1st or 2nd round this year unless an obvious value pick is there such as a bryant, tate, spiller, etc..the more i think about how the pats r goin to go about this the more confused i get, bc there are so many options and routes to go and its not possible to know the best way to go, but surely bb and co. with have plan a-z ready for what eva..all i know is the oline needs to be upgraded with more consistency in the run game and pass pro, and our d line needs to be better in the run game and we need an our olbs to generate sum more consisent pressure and mayo and guyton both need to have a better year sheddn blocks in the run game and meriweather has to work on better tacklin and not over running the play
  4. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I think its much easier to find a WR or two through FA that Brady can use to make the offense dangerous than it is to find a legit pass rusher.

    That goes for next year aswell as this year.

    Pass-rushers are now the most important defensive players on the field - look at the relative success of the two worst AFC rushing attacks last year (San Diego and Indy).

    Its all about getting to the QB.

    With that in mind the Patriots have to hit paydirt with a 3-4 DE and a genuine elite pass rushing OLB in this draft.

    No team that is a genuine contender (ie has money tied up in multiple elite players) can really afford to poach an elite pass rusher from another team.

    Belichick has shown a strong ability to pick 3-4 DE's (of course it wasn't always such a sellers market for these guys) but not the OLB so much.

    Like it or not, the Colts type defense is the future - I really thought this year might signal a turn against the tide and back towards a 4-3 a la Indy and New Orleans.
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Neal signed for 2 years so he is signed through 2011. I agree with the concept, though, that we may draft more offense than some expect and we may use more of the picks (not trading out to 2011) than we sometimes do. The other way of looking at it, though, is many of the holes that you correctly point out are of guys young enough to be re-signed as opposed to a few, like Moss, who are getting old. We could extend Koppen and Mankins and be set on the OL for a couple of years if we moved Vollmer to LT and kept Kaczur at RT. I wouldn't be surprised if we take care of RB soon (this draft or next) with one guy and let this whole crew go (and sign another low level Morris type as a backup to the new guy).
  6. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    I think we need a complete OLB and a physical DE or rotation. These will require high picks or FAs that cost, most likely.

    We also need an SILB, though ahigh mileage vet might do. Smart player, not necessarily a top athlete ro ream with Mayo.

    I think you're a bit in panic mode on the offense. Connolly Ohmberger, Bussey and Wendell are in the pipeline. Definitely not out of the question for a lower pick or free agent to develop into a solid guard under Dante, and Neal is signed. Good competition for the spot, let's get off the ledge and see what happens here.

    I don't necessarily think the top receivers thrive over smart route runners in our system, but we have picks and hopefully a learned lesson from Galloway. We have Moss for a year, so let's get crafty, complementary guys for now.

    Funny thing is, we could turn the draft upside down to pick our most successful receivers. Branch was basically a third round pick #65, Givens a 7th and Troy an 8th.

    Two high 2nd rounders were el bustos. Might be a lesson there. a lesson that could save us grief and money.


    I wouldn't mind bringing some low picks and free agents into camp for TE. In fact, I'd like some real battles in camp. If there is one thing that's noticeable about our more talented recent players is a lack of a nasty streak. Watson was a nice guy, but I swear he could run through an antique store, make a catch and not disturb a piece of crystal. We need nasty mean tight ends that want to kill someone to make the catch, not gazelles.
  7. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Agreed. The offensive players who are good bets to perform for more than the next couple of years are:

    Brady
    Welker (we hope!)
    Mankins
    Vollmer
    Whichever of the unproven youngsters you think well of
  8. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Personally, I want to see a DE, TE, and WR with 3 of our first 4 picks. Yes, OLB and RB are issues, but we have 2 1sts next year to get an elite pass-rusher and RB. Plus, I think that the Patriots are going to have a big year in 2011. Rookie RBs and OLBs have had plenty of success, but those 3 positions would all need a year before they would be worthy of a starting job on a Super Bowl caliber team. DL seem to always need a year before reaching maximum potential. A TE has a lot to learn, and I'm sure that Brady would be a lot more comfortable having a safety blanket guy that he's been throwing to for over a year, not a few months. Rookie WRs rarely have big seasons, and if Moss is gone, we'll need somebody to be that 1000 yard guy. How many 1000 yard receivers since 2000? Three: Marques Colston, Michael Clayton, and Anquan Boldin. How many 2nd year 1000 yard receivers? 16. Get those guys now, so they have a year on the team before we take a shot at one last ring for Brady.
  9. FoxboroFlyer

    FoxboroFlyer Rookie

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    What happens if there is a lock out in 2011? Is there still a draft, and does that year count in reguards to years served on players contracts? Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I was just wondering how all of that plays out?
  10. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    As easy & logical as this sounds I would bet that the same 4 picks that the Pats have in the first 2 rounds today will not be the same ones they have come draft day.
  11. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    forgot offensive draft or defensive draft. this has to be a draft where we pick up at least 3 good players. thats it. you pick the best player, regardless of position. we need guys who can play
  12. capetide

    capetide Rookie

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    Need DE, OLB, and a OG or OT who can run block. Half of this team's offensive problems were due to an inability of the offensive line to create running room. How many times was there nothing there? How many times did the RB have to cut back to gain any yardage at all? When your HOF coach has to consistently call passing plays on 3rd or 4th and short yardage, there's a huge problem.
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There will be a draft in 2011 whether there is a lockout or not. That is stipulated in the expiring CBA.

    If there is a lockout contracts will almost certainly toll or not count 2011 as a year of service on existing contracts unless they ultimately play some portion of that season. Agents will certainly be attempting to secure contracts that don't tie up their drafted player any longer than he would have been, but owners will have all the leverage since they won't have any pressure to get the kid into organized activities since there won't be any... Whereas agents will be under pressure to get their clients some bonus money to tide them over...

    It's going to be interesting for sure. The union could ultimately decertify to end around a lockout. Problem is in that scenario the owners last best offer becomes the defacto CBA until such time as the courts rule on various anti trust challenges the NFLPA would mount to that offer. And the owners last best offer will certainly include a rookie contract cap and other terms and conditions they feel they can live with. They risk ultimately having the courts force them into some terms they are not comfortable with (this is how FA was born), but it can take years for that to unfold and in the interim they get to operate on their terms so...
  14. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Or how about we get some non ancient 30 plus year old RB's that don't take forever to get to the LOS. Our O Line has to hold their blocks longer than any other Oline in football because we have Maroney the dancing bear and 3 ancient RB's taking forever to get to the LOS.
    Last season's version of the quick hitter was the five second crawl.

    Also I think last year, the plan on 3rd or 4th and short was to throw if the defense stacked the box. And given the lack of power or young legs at the RB positon, that was probably the right call.
  15. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I agree, we need playmakers. I would love to see us trade up for Suh. Best player in this draft and a rare playmaker at the 3-4 DE position. If we can get him. without losing any of our 3 second rounders, we can get a RB, TE and an OLB in round 2 and have at least 3 playmakers from this draft.
  16. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rookie

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    I am convinced that the issues we have running the ball consistently are due to the mindset of the offensive line than any lack of speed from the RB's...or even even talent on the O-line.

    This same line run blocked just fine when Cassel was QB - it was good enough for the 6th best rushing attack in football that year - because they knew they needed to be physical at the point of attack rather than defensive in pass protection.

    2 further pieces of evidence to support this:

    1. The rushing attack of the Chargers and the Colts - i'm willing to concede that LdT has dropped off but these were the two worst running attacks in football. I don't think anyone would say that Addai and Donald Brown are slow to the LOS

    2. The Ravens and Jets rushing attack. They commit to the run and are successful - look at the way the Ravens bullied the Patriots in the post-season game. They are, however, inefficient passing teams.

    It seems clear to me that as an offensive unit you can follow one of two paths -

    A. a pass first, reactive O-line that relies on finesse - think Colts, Patriots, Steelers (yes, they have made the shift in this direction too)

    B. a run first, proactive O-line that 'hits before they get hit' - think Jets, Ravens

    Its very difficult to do both - maybe only one team was successful at it and they won the Superbowl.
  17. FoxboroFlyer

    FoxboroFlyer Rookie

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    Wow. This sounds like it is going to turn into a complete cluster ****. Thanks for the info.
  18. carolinatony

    carolinatony Rookie

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    BINGO! I have said for 2 years we need a solid run blocking OG. When you can't get 2 yrds time after time and have to pass on 3rd and short; they tells you something. Get a mini John Hannah :)

    Pass rush/WR's and someone who can play TE are a must as well. I woudn't mine a RB either.
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hope your flame-proof uniform is on when you indicate that our OL is fine for years if we simply extend Mankins and Koppen next year. And just BTW, I agree with you 100%.

    However, we are always on the lookout for a RG, especially one that can be backup center on gameday. We passed on several last year. I don't think this year's crop is as good as guys like Wood and LeVitre; so I don't really expect a guard.

  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    You think Neal's going to play for "years"?
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