Is the playoffs the difference in success between Dean Pees and Romeo Crennel?

[mgteich]

I do believe that the old defenses would have resulted in SB's in the last two seasons. And yes, I do believe that the oldsters just couldn't suck it up and stop an 80 yard drive in each of the last two seasons. I think Crennell was a much better DC than Pees, but I don't think that coaching was the difference. Talent in the 2007 defense just wasn't what it was in 2004. HOWEVER, the results were actually excellent in terms of points scored and victories. But when push came to shove in the last key defensive stand, they rolled over, huffing and puffing.
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Of course, the offense SHOULD have scored more. And they should have run better even without Morris (personally, I don't see why). Sure the offense could us a right-side road grader. Sure McDaniels could use some more flexibility.

But the season is now 2008, and the reality is that the 2008 defense needs a lot of help, and the offense is ready to play and is, without any help whatsoever, one of the top offenses ever to play the game.

 

[richpats]

I show you an obvious game where the offense is being tested (Brady off, 209 passing yards and 3 picks), and show the running game being 'worked' to the tune of 122 yards, and your argument is that because the running game got 122 yards the offense couldn't have been being tested. Are you high?

If you are claiming that Brady was "off" then you are neutralizing any argument that suggests the SD defense did in fact "test" the NE offense.

Back to the point - NE ran the ball effectively because there wasn't a big challenge to do so. When McDaniels learns how to run the ball when it IS a big challenge (a la SB42) then he will have matured as an OC. An offense simply can't go 1-dimensional because the other dimension is "hard" unless the "easy" dimension is a lock everytime (and it wasn't in SB42).

 

[mgteich]

My primary issue with Josh is that he is unable and/or unwilling to adequately make half-time adjustments or to make adequate adjustments during the game. It is reported that he purposely decided NOT to make changes during the SB. In any case, that is surely the way it seemed. In the end, the lack of offensive production put the pressure on the defense who stepped up to the plate and had allowed a measly 10 points. And then the giants had the ball inside their own 20 with a couple minutes to go, and the rest is history.

If you are claiming that Brady was "off" then you are neutralizing any argument that suggests the SD defense did in fact "test" the NE offense.

Back to the point - NE ran the ball effectively because there wasn't a big challenge to do so. When McDaniels learns how to run the ball when it IS a big challenge (a la SB42) then he will have matured as an OC. An offense simply can't go 1-dimensional because the other dimension is "hard" unless the "easy" dimension is a lock everytime (and it wasn't in SB42).

 

[richpats]

My primary issue with Josh is that he is unable and/or unwilling to adequately make half-time adjustments or to make adequate adjustments during the game. It is reported that he purposely decided NOT to make changes during the SB. In any case, that is surely the way it seemed. In the end, the lack of offensive production put the pressure on the defense who stepped up to the plate and had allowed a measly 10 points. And then the giants had the ball inside their own 20 with a couple minutes to go, and the rest is history.

What is more astonishing about the SB loss is that the D had their BEST first 3 quarters of football all year long. When an offense puts up SEVEN measely points in 57 minutes of football then their fans should be thankful they are even in the game. I know I was and I'm not terribly disappointed that we lost, considering the way we played.

 

[Rob0729]

FWIW-your secondary probably played their best ball with Mangini coaching them. Just MHO.

Anyhow-Crenell seemed to provide alot of intangibles to the Pats D as well.(i.e. He made them gel over the long-haul)

I must have posted this 100 X's in other threads, but do NOT underestimate the value of assistant coaches. Sure-BB has a knack for choosing quality assistants, but at the same time, it's hard to replace a brilliant playcaller in Charlie Weis. Or for that matter, Eric Mangini was responsible for developing 2nd day picks like Asante Samuels, Randall Gay, etc-these guys just don't grow on trees.

Just imagine how the Colts' O would turn out if Tom Moore left. The Colts may have a world of talent on the O side of the ball, but Moore is nonetheless a gifted playcaller that doesn't exactly grow on trees.

I think you are giving too much credit to Mangini. The Belichick defense has and probably always will be based on front four pressure. Going back to his days in Giants land, he has always had a great front seven and so-so secondary. In fact, while in NE the safety has been more important than the CBs.

Mangini was a very good position coach, but to say Crennel's success is because of Mangini is silly. Besides, Samuel was just a mediocre to average starter until Mangini went to the Jets. Since then, he has become a top CB in the league.

 

[Rob0729]

My primary issue with Josh is that he is unable and/or unwilling to adequately make half-time adjustments or to make adequate adjustments during the game. It is reported that he purposely decided NOT to make changes during the SB. In any case, that is surely the way it seemed. In the end, the lack of offensive production put the pressure on the defense who stepped up to the plate and had allowed a measly 10 points. And then the giants had the ball inside their own 20 with a couple minutes to go, and the rest is history.

Huh? McDaniels has made very good halftime adjustments all year. Look at the Dallas game where the Pats outscored the Cowboys 27-3 and scored on all of their last five drives after the Cowboys scored a TD on their first drive of the half. Or the Colts game where after only scoring 7 points in the first half, outscored the Colts 17-0 in the second. Or scoring 17 points in the second half vs. Baltimore after scoring 10 in the first half. Or the AFC Championship game where he successfully played ball control offense on San Deigo all second half. Or the opening Jets game where they scored 14 points in the first half and 24 points in the second.

Even with all the blow outs the Pats had where the game was basically over in the first half, you can point to a bunch of games where the offense clearly came out better after halftime.

As for the Super Bowl, of course he made changes at halftime. Anyone who believes that BS rumor that McDaniels refused to make adjustments doesn't understand football. I have not seen it in print anywhere. Not even on rumor sites like Florio's. It is a BS rumor started by McDaniels haters.

 

[cstjohn17]

Pees:

05 Vrabel, post stroke Bruschi, Beisel, Chad Brown, Colvin

DB Hobbs, Samuels, Starks, Scott, Eugene Wilson, Hawkins

I could be wrong but I think Mangini was the D Coordinator in 05, he had horse crap to work with but had the defense playing well at the end of the season.

 

[cstjohn17]

McDaniels and Weis is like comparing a subaru and a Ferrari at this point. The fact that numb nuts couldn't do anything in the super bowl with THIS talent is inexcusable. Perfect point here: Look at the talent difference. Weis didn't have the Brady of today, didn't have a 2 headed running attack, didn't have Moss, Welker, etc.

Weis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>McDaniels

Crennel > Pees

IMO.

People love to dump on McDaniels but really what game plans are going to work when 5 or 6 players cannot block 4. They made a strategic error by dressing 2 TEs, it limited their power rushing formations. The Giants pretty much played like Indy, rush the passer and if it is a running play hope you get lucky. They played their lightest, fastest defensive players and dominated the line of scrimmage.

Still, if the D doesn't allow a 83 yard drive none of this matters.

 

[Rob0729]

McDaniels and Weis is like comparing a subaru and a Ferrari at this point. The fact that numb nuts couldn't do anything in the super bowl with THIS talent is inexcusable. Perfect point here: Look at the talent difference. Weis didn't have the Brady of today, didn't have a 2 headed running attack, didn't have Moss, Welker, etc.

Weis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>McDaniels

Crennel > Pees

IMO.

But you can make the argument that Weis never had as bad of talent as McDaniels had to work with last year. Weis never had a #3 WR as his primary WR, an aged RB who was usually so spent by halftime that he rode the bench quite a few second halves, a revolving door for back up WRs, etc.

Everyone is focusing in on one game too much. McDaniels did not call a great game, but the players didn't execute either.

 

[Deus Irae]

If you are claiming that Brady was "off" then you are neutralizing any argument that suggests the SD defense did in fact "test" the NE offense.

Where the heck do you get that ridiculous idea? Oh, yeah.... you must made it up.

Back to the point - NE ran the ball effectively because there wasn't a big challenge to do so. When McDaniels learns how to run the ball when it IS a big challenge (a la SB42) then he will have matured as an OC. An offense simply can't go 1-dimensional because the other dimension is "hard" unless the "easy" dimension is a lock everytime (and it wasn't in SB42).

The defense played well enough to pressure Brady into 3 picks and, reportedly, caused him to be injured. The defense only allowed 209 yards passing for the #1 scoring offense of all time. The running game, which was far better all season long than people gave it credit for, was good enough for Maroney to get 122 yards rushing. Naturally, that means that you just change your definition of "tested" rather than admit you're wrong.

How sad.

 

[richpats]

The defense played well enough to pressure Brady into 3 picks and, reportedly, caused him to be injured. The defense only allowed 209 yards passing for the #1 scoring offense of all time. The running game, which was far better all season long than people gave it credit for, was good enough for Maroney to get 122 yards rushing. Naturally, that means that you just change your definition of "tested" rather than admit you're wrong.

How sad.

Yes, sad that I made an argument based on my own perceptions and beliefs. Thankfully the people that run this great nation don't make that mistake. Oh wait.....