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Is it time for the NFL to dump the Rooney rule?


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1 - Look at the discrimination against whites in the NBA, this is beyond obvious.

2 - Just because someone is a "legacy" it doesnt mean they're not qualified.

What is the discrimination about whites in the NBA?

Please tell me more.

Legacy admits are by definition NOT qualified.
 
You're making a general statement. If someone is hired who is under-qualified, hopefully they'll get canned. I wouldn't want to work with such a person and have to pick up their slack, would you?

Any system that deliberately excludes people by definition hires underqualified people. They're hired all the time. And no they are not canned.

"You're doing a good job Brownie!"

The guy was the head of the Equestrian Society prior to landing the FEMA job.
 
What is the discrimination about whites in the NBA?

Please tell me more.

Legacy admits are by definition NOT qualified.

1) There are VERY few whites in the NBA, by your logic they must be discriminated against. Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it.

2) "Legacy", at least as it's relevant in this discussion, just means they're someone's kid (Brian Shottenheimer, Kyle Shanahan). Just being their kid does not mean they're unqualified, just from a competency standpoint they've probably forgotten more about football then you or I will ever know and they probably already have relationships with many other coaches/players, essentially they've been groomed for this job most of their life.

Now, if they screw up you look at them and cry "nepotism" but if someone with no connection to a coach messes up you just write it off.
 
The people who aren't in the power structure are conspicuous by race. Obviously. That's why the Rooney Rule is about race. The GOB network is all white.

Is there active discrimination against minorities or is the whiteness of the GOB network just a by-product of relationships? Ex. Coach A knows person B that referred him to coach C, and he already has a foot in the door which gives him an advantage over everyone not in the loop.

I was able to help a friend of mine get a job at my company, he had an advantage because I previously worked with and could vouch for him. It wasn't about race, even though we have a similar ethnic background, it was about our previous relationship and the fact that he was also fully capable of doing the job.

My point is that you cannot simply point at race and claim that as de facto racial discrimination, if you do then you have the burden of explaining why the NBA isn't discriminating against white people.

If you want to lessen the influence of the GOB network then you should use the modified Rooney system I endorsed earlier, when coaches without connections would get job interviews regardless of their race. Detriot simply couldnt find a minoroty to interview when they wanted to hire Mariucci but what if a white equivilant of Tomlin could have had an opportunity to wow the Lion's, would that not have been a gain?
 
It's amazing how effective the rule has been. As you pointed out, owners are hiring the best coaches they can find, and thanks to the Rooney rule they are finding quite a few black coaches. Perhaps the rule has done it's job, and owners are now looking at potential coaches without regard to race.
 
1) There are VERY few whites in the NBA, by your logic they must be discriminated against. Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it.


Can't even imagine how in the world you came up with this. What's your reasoning? Bizarre.


2) "Legacy", at least as it's relevant in this discussion, just means they're someone's kid (Brian Shottenheimer, Kyle Shanahan). Just being their kid does not mean they're unqualified, just from a competency standpoint they've probably forgotten more about football then you or I will ever know and they probably already have relationships with many other coaches/players, essentially they've been groomed for this job most of their life.

No, a legacy is someone whose file is promoted with a rubber stamp on top of it. If a legacy wanted to stand on their own merits, they would simply apply to a school without the parent pulling strings.

As for Schottenheimer knowing more about football than me, yeah, so did my high school coach! I wouldn't want him calling plays for an NFL team though (run right, run left, run up the middle!


Now, if they screw up you look at them and cry "nepotism" but if someone with no connection to a coach messes up you just write it off.

A bunch of stuff you just made up. Do you always make stuff up when you discuss things with people?
 
Is there active discrimination against minorities or is the whiteness of the GOB network just a by-product of relationships? Ex. Coach A knows person B that referred him to coach C, and he already has a foot in the door which gives him an advantage over everyone not in the loop.

I was able to help a friend of mine get a job at my company, he had an advantage because I previously worked with and could vouch for him. It wasn't about race, even though we have a similar ethnic background, it was about our previous relationship and the fact that he was also fully capable of doing the job.

My point is that you cannot simply point at race and claim that as de facto racial discrimination, if you do then you have the burden of explaining why the NBA isn't discriminating against white people.

If you want to lessen the influence of the GOB network then you should use the modified Rooney system I endorsed earlier, when coaches without connections would get job interviews regardless of their race. Detriot simply couldnt find a minoroty to interview when they wanted to hire Mariucci but what if a white equivilant of Tomlin could have had an opportunity to wow the Lion's, would that not have been a gain?

If everyone in power is white, and you say it's ok to hire someone from your own ethnic background because you're comfortable with them--then of course black people and others won't be hired.

It's not even a hypothetical. It's a reality. When looking at resumes, white executives set aside black resumes! Until they get a letter from HR telling them they are out of compliance! So, there is obviously active discrimination. It's been proven.
 
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If we're discussing the Rooney Rule, we need to stop discussing racial quotas, affirmative action, and the hiring of less-qualified candidates. None of those things have anything to do with the Rooney Rule.

No, really, they don't.

The Rooney Rule has nothing to do with the % of black or white or yellow or neon coloured people in the sport/country/world.

Nor does it have anything to do with guaranteeing a job to anyone for anything.

All the rule asks is that you interview someone who may get overlooked due to their ethnicity. One single interview.

That's all.

Dragging up all this other nonsense is just ridiculous and totally unrelated to the topic at hand.
 
If we're discussing the Rooney Rule, we need to stop discussing racial quotas, affirmative action, and the hiring of less-qualified candidates. None of those things have anything to do with the Rooney Rule.

No, really, they don't.

The Rooney Rule has nothing to do with the % of black or white or yellow or neon coloured people in the sport/country/world.

Nor does it have anything to do with guaranteeing a job to anyone for anything.

All the rule asks is that you interview someone who may get overlooked due to their ethnicity. One single interview.

That's all.

Dragging up all this other nonsense is just ridiculous and totally unrelated to the topic at hand.

Some members brought up the % of african-americans playing in the NFL vs the % of AA coaches...to you're point, it's actually irrelevant.
 
Herm Edwards
Tony Dungy
Lovie Smith
Marvin Lewis
Raheem Morris
Jim Caldwell
Mike Singletary
Mike Tomlin
Leslie Frasier
Ron Rivera

Those are just the most recent "minority" Head Coaches from recent years. I think the Rooney rule did its job, but has become obsolete. It is ridiculous that the COwboys couldn't simply elevate Garrett to their HC job and had to conduct a sham interview first.

Time for that one to go.
 
As far as your percentages remeber the NFL has alot more than 25% black players. I'm not sure the number but just by looking at the teams it would have to be higher than 60% even 70%. So there is some disparity when comparing percentage of black players to black head coaches. That being said I think that if want to hire one of your coordiantors then interviewing a black person just to satisfy some rule is a disservice to the one you "pick" to interview knowing full well that you are not going to hire him.
 
Personally, I find the Rooney Rule to be wholly ineffective for the good of the NFL.

I see some folks cite that there are X number of African American players in the league and there is a poor representation of coaches accordingly. Because there is some/any correlation between the skill set required to be an excellent NFL player and an excellent NFL coach?

You see this all the time in other industries. A great engineer might make super crappy manager at an engineering firm. A great doctor might make a horrible direction of medicine at a hospital. What you did to get you into management is no indicator that you would be good at management.

I actually think the rule is racist in itself. It's application is not to help all minorities, just primarily to help African Americans. I don't see anyone lobbying to get Amy Trask of the Raiders a GM slot with an NFL franchise. You could argue that being a woman is a bigger drawback than being black. I don't see anyone demanding Norm Chow get an interview. Or Pete Rodriguez back in the day. Or pushing super hard for Ron Rivera years ago.

The rule, IMHO, presupposes many things

1) That there will always be a qualified African American coaching candidate available to interview. Which might not always be true. Coaching potential hires is like any other situation, some good years, some lean years. Depending on who is out there and who wants to coach and who has name recognition.

2) That losing football games is not punishment enough in the NFL. If you are a racist owner and you overlook an outstanding coach for a white one, you will probably lose NFL games. That's not enough of a punishment? Here's a business concept that pro Rooney Rulers avoid - the market corrects itself. The rule says that most people will behave in a manner that being black and punishing blacks in the NFL means more than winning. I find that incredibly arrogant

3) That a black coach will be denied opportunity simply for being black. What if he happens to be a jerk? A POS human being that no one likes to work with? Maybe the owners wife hates his wife. Maybe he spits when he talks. Maybe he's bad with the press and has a bad attitude. Sometimes people don't hate you because you are black or a woman or gay or something else, sometimes they hate you because you are a lousy human being. Some people, independent of race, are like that. They aren't good to their word. They aren't reliable. They can't get along with other people. They let their ego or insecurities rule them. This can be true for people of any race. The Rooney Rule, IMHO, locks out the possibility that a potential hire might be a horrible person that no one likes. That's super arrogant in my book

4) That there are an unlimited number of interviews. If an owner will do five coaching interviews and will give one to a black candidate because the rule says so, does it rule out the possibility that a white coach might not get an interview who might actually deserve one? The rule assumes that a black interview does not come at the cost of any other interview. What that means is it's ok to take interview opportunities away, just as long as the person in question isn't black. Real Life 101, every opportunity you get often comes at the cost of an opportunity of another. You get a job interview, they aren't likely to interview everyone. Maybe they interview the ten people. If you weren't there, maybe number 11 gets a shot.

5) That there are only 32 jobs period. And that with any high demand, high profile job where there are ONLY 32 SLOTS, and only maybe a third of them are open every year, that the process will probably be UNFAIR TO EVERYONE. Find any job with few slots and high demand and you'll find a system where lots of people will feel disenfranchised by the process. Maybe someone isn't going to hire you because you are black, maybe they won't because there are ONLY 32 FREAKING JOBS like it in the world. Plenty of deserving candidates don't get into medical school every year. Black, white, yellow, women, men, gay, old, etc. Life isn't fair because you happen to be black? No, sometimes life isn't fair because it's just not fair and no one cares if you are black.

6) There there is no other way to create a situation to improve the opportunities for head coaching slots for EVERYONE PERIOD. Something like having all owners spend a week somewhere and forced to meet and greet and deal with coaches and front office personnel of all types and backgrounds. The Rooney Rule doesn't say let's find a way to increase exposure to everyone, just, in application, African American males.

I'd like the Rooney Rule and it's proponents try to help get Oakland Raiders executive Amy Trask a GM job in the NFL. But why do that? She's not black. I'd like to see Tony Dungy reach out to not just Michael Vick to help him fix his life, but also Todd Marinovich. But why do that, he's not black. I'd like to see a sports caster walk up to Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy, headed to the Superbowl, acknowledge them as men who worked hard and love the game, instead of citing first that they are black men who happen to be football coaches and not, what I feel is more appropriate, men who love the game and bring passion to their work and love coaching and they just happen to be black. But why do that? Why bring up that a man love football first instead of pointing out he happens to be black first?

IMHO, the Rooney Rule says inequality is not ok if it is perceived to lessen the opportunities for blacks, but if blacks are benefited and a non black gets fewer opportunities as a trade off, then who really cares?

Is there probably racism against blacks in this society and in the NFL. Probably. And that's sad. I can openly acknowledge that. I can openly acknowledge that it's probably not easy to be black in this society. You know what I will NEVER EVER hear. NEVER EVER? I will never ever hear a black coach in the NFL say out loud that he might have received opportunities in the NFL at the cost of non African American coaches simply because he was black and that unfairness in his favor does nothing to promote the concept of actual equality.

I'm completely ok with people who have a problem with inequality in absolute terms.

I'm not completely ok with people who have a problem with inequality when it simply isn't working in their favor. But could care less about anyone else if it did.

I can say I don't know what it's like to be black in America and have to deal with all the issues that come with it. I just don't. I can't imagine it's easy.

But you know what African Americans, including coaching candidates, don't know? They don't know what it's like to NOT BE BLACK AND BE TOLD YOU DON'T KNOW HOW HARD IT IS FOR BLACKS and have everything you do and say that could turn into a PR disaster or a lawsuit at any moment, even if you've done nothing wrong.

The Rooney Rule, while I'm happy for Marvin Lewis and Romeo Crennel and Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy, makes me laugh. IMHO, it takes racism that isn't publicly acceptable by this society and ironically replaces it with racism that is privately acceptable by this society.

Todd Marinovich probably wants to know why no black coaches are lobbying for Amy Trask to have more opportunities in the NFL. Maybe he'd ask the question himself but he's likely still sitting in jail waiting for Tony Dungy's phone call.
 
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