Interesting points from Tom Curran

[DaBruinz]

curren, who is solid, is dead on on this article... although i dont know about the moss comment...

How can he be "dead on" when so much of his information is wrong?

 

[Deus Irae]

While I agree with the general notion that BB has been screwing up a lot since 2008, you're way over the top here:

Bodden didn't work out fine. They paid in 25 million over the two contracts and he had one good year. What the heck are you talking about. you can't say, well he had one good year. That's foolish.

The second contract was a terrible signing, no question. It's one of the worst signings you'll ever see.

Maroney was a MAJOR bust, one of the biggest this team's had. Adalius Thomas was good for one year?

Both suffered injuries, and both played well, or at least effectively, for the team before the injuries took their toll. MJD would have been an interesting player to follow as a Patriots fan, though.

NEWSFLASH FOR FANBOYS. One year does not make it a good signing when you sign him for multiple years. Corey Dillon was good for ONE year. And then they wasted big money on him. And can we please stop with the 2007 draft. They still fanned on Meriweather when they had Beason sitting right there and they had a defense that was old. Meriweather was a good not great college player who was most famous for stomping on someone's head.

Dillon was a great signing, and they needed a safety to replace the aging Harrison. Meriweather was good enough, in the system, to get to the Pro Bowl twice. That's not the end all and be all, but it shows he had some skills.

2008 - How many players still on the team.

3 counting Guyton. Not a great draft, it was the first real sign of trouble. The Crable pick was a bad idea from the start, and the O'Connell pick was inexcusable.

2009 - Is looking worse and worse.

2009 still looks pretty solid. It just doesn't look as unbelievably good as many first thought. It's actually a pretty good example of the trade down theory working to help cover for bad choices with lots of extra choices.

2010 - IS there only good draft.

Hell of a good draft

We are talking about 5 drafts now. And almost no impact players.

Mayo, Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, Moss for a couple of years... That's five impact players in 5 drafts. It's not the greatest run in history, but it's not godawful. The issue really isn't about a small number of hits. The issue is about the number of misses being too large.

This team traded Richard Seymour for crying out loud. For a tackle. A tackle who they could have got in any of the last 3 drafts. Asante Samuel, gone.

The Seymour deal was absolutely moronic. Samuel wanted to be overpaid so, by the time his deal came up, it was too late for that situation to be resolved.

This team is currently starting Three former released players.

Ellis, Carter, Ninkovich.

That happens with most teams. Being released, in and of itself, doesn't mean a player sucks, although it can be an indicator depending upon circumstances. Ellis has aged and looks bad. Carter looks pretty good. Ninkovich is a backup being forced into a starter's role.

Three undrafted players. Brown, Love, Arrington

I've got no problem with Love, who's a find, or Arrington, who's played well for his situation even if he's being forced up too high on the depth chart by injuries, poor drafting and failed free agent signings. Brown, on the other hand...

Three of there OWN first round picks, one is having a historically horrible year. maybe that is coaching. McCourty, Mayo and Wilfolk and Vince was drafted 7 years ago.[/QUOTE]

With the switch back to zone, McCourty is playing better.

And two second rounders, in Chung and Spikes. And let's face it Spikes doesn't fit in today's NFL.

Spikes fits fine in this era of specialization. He'll be an excellent substitutional player in the 3-4 defense when they get back to it.

Then you have Phillip Adams, Mouldon, Guyton and Haynesworth. All Cast offs and undrafted players. There is NO TALENT on the team. So you either blame Belichick for the lack of talent or you blame him for the lack of development. Either way he is to blame.

The defense is not the whole team, and there is SOME talent on the defense. It's just not enough to consistently cover up for the world class suckage at other positions.

And, yes, that's on BB.

 

[DaBruinz]

DaBruinz - he clearly meant re-signing TBC to a bigger deal, which we did. At one point TBC was what, the 5th highest cap hit on the team. Was that a good move? No.

First off, when the Pats brought TBC back, it was on a 1 year prove yourself deal. It was only after that deal that TBC was given a new contract. WHO cares if he was "the 5th highest cap hit". That doesn't mean jack. What was the actual MONEY... Which was a bit over $3 million. Hardly over-paying. And that only brought him in at 9th place based on Miguel's page..

As for Bodden - hell no does one good year - which happened before the contract in question - redeem a $25 million mistake.

There was no "$25 million mistake". The contract was for $22 million and only part of that ($6 million) was guaranteed in the form of a signing bonus. BTW, when was BB supposed to have gotten precognition to know that Bodden would get injured the way he did?


As for knowing what these guys do 2 years down the line - that's the very job of a scout and a GM, so yes, Belichick should know that.

The point is, no one is infallible, and everyone makes mistakes - especially in the NFL when the success rate is insanely low once you get out of the first half of round 1 or the very top tier free agents. But making excuses is silly. There's no reason to. It's a hard job, mistakes have been made. No reason to sugar coat it.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sugar-coating anything. People on this board are over-exaggerating things to the point of absurdity.

And, NO. Scouts and GMs can not KNOW what a player is going to do 2 years down the line. They can try and project it, but there is a reason the draft is called a crap shoot. It's because it is so difficult to predict how players will react with all the money they receive and the new intensity and pressures they are under. There are so many factors that affect players that the coaches have no influence over.

 

[DarrylS]

Bodden didn't work out fine. They paid in 25 million over the two contracts and he had one good year. What the heck are you talking about. you can't say, well he had one good year. That's foolish.

Maroney was a MAJOR bust, one of the biggest this team's had. Adalius Thomas was good for one year?

NEWSFLASH FOR FANBOYS. One year does not make it a good signing when you sign him for multiple years. Corey Dillon was good for ONE year. And then they wasted big money on him. And can we please stop with the 2007 draft. They still fanned on Meriweather when they had Beason sitting right there and they had a defense that was old. Meriweather was a good not great college player who was most famous for stomping on someone's head.

2008 - How many players still on the team.

2009 - Is looking worse and worse.

2010 - IS there only good draft.

We are talking about 5 drafts now. And almost no impact players.

You cannot win a debate without facts. You don't have facts.

This team traded Richard Seymour for crying out loud. For a tackle. A tackle who they could have got in any of the last 3 drafts. Asante Samuel, gone.

Listen, I don't need to debate those who won't relent.

This team is currently starting Three former released players.

Ellis, Carter, Ninkovich.

Three undrafted players. Brown, Love, Arrington

Three of there OWN first round picks, one is having a historically horrible year. maybe that is coaching. McCourty, Mayo and Wilfolk and Vince was drafted 7 years ago.

And two second rounders, in Chung and Spikes. And let's face it Spikes doesn't fit in today's NFL.

Then you have Phillip Adams, Mouldon, Guyton and Haynesworth. All Cast offs and undrafted players. There is NO TALENT on the team. So you either blame Belichick for the lack of talent or you blame him for the lack of development. Either way he is to blame.

This means nothing, until you put it into a context of what happens to every team in the league.. wake up and look at the number of highly rated/recommended college players who poop the bed every year.. Vernon Gholston and Aaron Maybin immediately come to mind.

The draft is a crap shoot and for every failure there is a success... this team is built with football players who would get a solid B and that has been the hallmark of this team.

 

[BradyManny]

First off, when the Pats brought TBC back, it was on a 1 year prove yourself deal. It was only after that deal that TBC was given a new contract. WHO cares if he was "the 5th highest cap hit". That doesn't mean jack. What was the actual MONEY... Which was a bit over $3 million. Hardly over-paying. And that only brought him in at 9th place based on Miguel's page..

Again, I assume he was talking about the ensuing contract extension with something like $14 million over 3 years (I'll have to check Miguels to confirm) - which turned out to be an overpay.

And, NO. Scouts and GMs can not KNOW what a player is going to do 2 years down the line. They can try and project it, but there is a reason the draft is called a crap shoot. It's because it is so difficult to predict how players will react with all the money they receive and the new intensity and pressures they are under. There are so many factors that affect players that the coaches have no influence over.

I'm sorry - but it is the job of many people in many fields, some much more important and difficult than football, to know what is going to happen two years from now. No one said it's easy - and I explicitly said that it wasn't - but it's still part of the job requirement and doesn't give someone a free pass when they fail to have the foresight the job requires.

 

[Patjew]

Must be hard to come up with 48 lines every week. Some are bound to be shakey.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

WOW.. Curran is such a sanctimonious ASS.. He clearly is bitter for having lost out on whatever "inside" information he was getting previously.

Talk about over-exaggerations..

TBC? The guy was a 7th round pick for the team? Yet he was a mistake? The fact the Pats got ANY production from him is a plus.

TBC the 7th round draft pick worked out well. Resigning him to a large multimillion at 4-5 million dollars a year was a mistake, he was never worth that kind of money.

Curran writing off Haynesworth already? Same with Ellis?? Guess that Curran hasn't actually watched any of the Pats games.. Probably too busy trying to kiss ass to anyone who will give him the time of day..

Ellis has very done little, and he's getting paid $4.5 million for this year.

Curran must have missed the good season that Bodden had when he first signed with the Pats. Funny how that works..

Bodden was ok, not worth the contract they signed him to, he's being paid $4.5 million (thanks Mark Sanchez) this year to sit at home. They should have used that money to go towards signing Nnamdi this offseason.

Curran must have missed the memo that a majority of the GMs missed out on the 2007 draft. And they had Meriweather for 4 solid years. Umm.. That's not missing out on the "entire 2007 draft".

Meriweather was here for 4 years, he was not a solid player those 4 years. Barely played year one and awful in year four.

The 2006 draft? The Pats actually got some key role players out of that draft. Hell, even Maroney was decent until his immaturity wrote his way out of town. Same with Willie Andrews. Got two very good seasons out of him.. Then Drugs.. Is BB supposed to know what these guys do 2 years down the line??

Maroney did ok one year splitting time with Dillon, did not even come close to justifying the #1 pick spent on him. And you would ideally make note of immaturity issues and proclivity for drugs when researching the player before investing a draft pick on them.

Tom needs to do better homework. The only "Top 50 pick" the Pats had in 08 was Mayo. In 09, they have Chung, Butler and Brace. One hit. One miss. One the story isn't done yet. But it's really convenient that he stops at 50.. Why not say Top 64.. Then you could include Wheatley and Vollmer.. OH.. I know. Because if you did that, you'd have to ignore the ALL PRO OT..


Brace (pick #40) is in year three now, has 21 tackles, (played in 22 out of a possible 39 games) has done very little, he's a lot closer to miss than to hit at this point. Butler has been cut. Chung has a good amount of room for improvement but even if you consider him a good pick , one out of three in the top 41 is not acceptable.

As for Caserio, I guess that Curran missed out that the Pats also have a guy by the name of Floyd Reese helping out the Pats. I bet that Curran thinks that Reese wouldn't tell Belichick the truth either.. Caserio has the balls to tell Belichick the truth. Belichick has the balls to weigh the advice, but still make his own decisions. Funny how that works.

BB ignored coaches and scouts who wanted no part of either Maroney or Chad Jackson, he chose them anyway, funny how that works.

Tom Curran has officially fallen into the sewer as a reporter. He is barely above the likes of Ron Borges, the CHB, and Tomase...

What did Curran say that's inaccurate? That Bodden, TBC and Ellis didn't turn into good FA signings? That Brace and Butler haven't proven worthy of picks #40 and 41? Maroney? Meriweather? What's the issue here?

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm sorry - but it is the job of many people in many fields, some much more important and difficult than football, to know what is going to happen two years from now. No one said it's easy - and I explicitly said that it wasn't - but it's still part of the job requirement and doesn't give someone a free pass when they fail to have the foresight the job requires.

I'm not giving anyone a "free pass". I just choose not to blame Belichick for things that are not under his control. Such as being able to predict injuries. Such as a player getting into drugs and going psycho.

BB is their boss. He's not their babysitter.

 

[BradyManny]

I'm not giving anyone a "free pass". I just choose not to blame Belichick for things that are not under his control. Such as being able to predict injuries. Such as a player getting into drugs and going psycho.

BB is their boss. He's not their babysitter.

Injuries and lifestyle are HUGE parts of professional football. I'll agree that the former is pretty hard to predict, admittedly, because very few injuries are actually indicative of future injury problems.

But there is no excuse for not being able to tell the character of a guy like Maroney or Chad Jackson through scouting and through the interviews. Just like with any job, its the requirement of the person doing the hiring to know who that person is, and how they will function down the road.

I, ultimately, do blame Belichick and Pioli for not getting a better read on Maroney's character. Holley's new book even says the scouts warned them in both cases - and the receivers coach said he wouldn't coach Chad Jackson. The red flags were there. We didn't know it, but the front office had the information and ignored it in favor of heeding advice from the pairs respective college coaches.

They interview these kids for that very reason - is football important to him; how will he handle money & fame; what are his priorities; does he get in his playbook, etc., etc.

 

[Rob0729]

Injuries and lifestyle are HUGE parts of professional football. I'll agree that the former is pretty hard to predict, admittedly, because very few injuries are actually indicative of future injury problems.

But there is no excuse for not being able to tell the character of a guy like Maroney or Chad Jackson through scouting and through the interviews. Just like with any job, its the requirement of the person doing the hiring to know who that person is, and how they will function down the road.

I, ultimately, do blame Belichick and Pioli for not getting a better read on Maroney's character.

And Belichick would say the same. They interview these kids for that very reason - is football important to him; how will he handle money & fame; what are his priorities; does he get in his playbook, etc., etc.

I think knowing the character of a draft prospect is a crap shoot. Many times, the player can fake his character in interviews and people around him will lie about his character for whatever reason. Sometimes, good character guys go bad after they get a several million dollar signing bonus. It is easy to stay hungry when you have nothing, but it is easier to get lazy when you have more money than you ever dreamed of. Sometimes it is hard to predict which guys are going to get lazy when they get seven figures.

I don't know if that is the case with either Maroney or Jackson, but Urban Meyer is a close confidant to Belichick. If there were any red flags on Jackson's work effort, I am sure Meyers would have divulged them to Belichick. So he may be one of those guys who just decided to coast after getting some big money and there were no or few signs he would when he was dirt poor and playing for Florida.

 

[BradyManny]

I am sure Meyers would have divulged them to Belichick. So he may be one of those guys who just decided to coast after getting some big money and there were no or few signs he would when he was dirt poor and playing for Florida.

Are we sure about Meyer? Let's consider:

a) Pats scouts, it turns out, were against Jackson & Maroney. Brian Daboll, WR coach at the time, said he wouldn't coach the kid.
b) Urban Meyer's best interest was to get these kids drafted, and drafted as high as possible. Can we trust his information? How were there no red flags on Spikes character (cheating on his high profile girlfriend at Florida, for instance)? I'm not sure Meyer's info was unbiased. And don't get me wrong - I like Spikes, but off the field he's been involved in several distractions to this point.

I agree good kids can go bad, or vice versa - but it's all about identifying red flags. The Patriots do more due diligence on this very thing than anybody in the league, so when they miss on two guys in one draft on this issue, you have to say that was a failure.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I think knowing the character of a draft prospect is a crap shoot. Many times, the player can fake his character in interviews and people around him will lie about his character for whatever reason. Sometimes, good character guys go bad after they get a several million dollar signing bonus. It is easy to stay hungry when you have nothing, but it is easier to get lazy when you have more money than you ever dreamed of. Sometimes it is hard to predict which guys are going to get lazy when they get seven figures.

I don't know if that is the case with either Maroney or Jackson, but Urban Meyer is a close confidant to Belichick. If there were any red flags on Jackson's work effort, I am sure Meyers would have divulged them to Belichick. So he may be one of those guys who just decided to coast after getting some big money and there were no or few signs he would when he was dirt poor and playing for Florida.

From Peter King's review of Michel Holley's Book.
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...peter-king-reviews-holleys-war-room-book.html

"Scouts were ticked off in 2006 that Belichick overrode their reports and picked Laurence Maroney in the first round (apparently on the strong advice of Josh McDaniels' brother Ben, one of the Maroney's college coaches) and Chad Jackson in the second round -- even after receivers coach Brian Daboll said he didn't want to coach Jackson."

 

[Sicilian]

Nah.... he makes some good points, but he makes a couple of really stupid comments, too. That line about Bristol is absolute crap, for example. There's not a team in the game that would be firing BB over his personnel moves, because his record's still been excellent.

Agreed. Even if BB were somehow fired by Kraft (which I don't think is going to happen unless we have a simply disastrous season), there would be at least 20 teams in the league willing to fire their current coach to bring him in. He wouldn't be out of the NFL for more than a month, let alone have to retire and work as a TV analyst.

 

[Rob0729]

Are we sure about Meyer? Let's consider:

Urban Meyer's best interest was to get these kids drafted, and drafted as high as possible. Can we trust his information? How were there no red flags on Spikes character (cheating on his high profile girlfriend at Florida, for instance)? I'm not sure Meyer's info was unbiased. And don't get me wrong - I like Spikes, but off the field he's been involved in several distractions to this point.

I agree good kids can go bad, or vice versa - but it's all about identifying red flags. The Patriots do more due diligence on this very thing than anybody in the league, so when they miss on two guys in one draft on this issue, you have to say that was a failure.

Meyers is trying to get his kids drafted, but that doesn't mean he has to sell out a friend like Belichick to do that. He can talk up Jackson to every team and still Bill on the sly to stay away from this kid.

Also, I don't think Spikes cheating on his girlfriend is a red flag any team looks for to exclude them from drafting them. If you did that, it would pretty much knock a large portion of the best players off most draft boards. These guys are football players, not choir boys. Cheating on a girlfriend and sleeping around is probably common practice with a lot of college football players. I mean there are a lot of rumors that Brady was already with Giselle before he broke up with Brigette Monahan who was carrying his child. If true, does that mean that Belichick was stupid to keep Brady around?

 

[Rob0729]

From Peter King's review of Michel Holley's Book.
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...peter-king-reviews-holleys-war-room-book.html

"Scouts were ticked off in 2006 that Belichick overrode their reports and picked Laurence Maroney in the first round (apparently on the strong advice of Josh McDaniels' brother Ben, one of the Maroney's college coaches) and Chad Jackson in the second round -- even after receivers coach Brian Daboll said he didn't want to coach Jackson."

Ok, I didn't see that. But that doesn't mean the scouts didn't want him because of their character. It could be any number of reasons they didn't want them. It could be that they weren't a style fit or they didn't think their skills didn't transfer to the Pros. Unless Holley says the reason why they didn't want them was character issues, my point may still be valid.

 

[Darolyn72]

The Draft is NOT a crap shoot if you know what you're doing.

The Steelers, Packers and Ravens consistency draft well. Usually, because they concentrate on their core competency which is defense and supplement on offense. That used to be what the Pats did. Why after going offense in 2010 they went offense again in 2011 in a defensive draft is mind boggling. Fine you take Solder and maybe Ridley, but why Vereen and why an injured Dowling. And stop saying he only missed 5 games his senior year, he was always hurting at Virginia and in high school. He gutted it out but when your body is ravaged in some spots it affects your whole body because you overcompensate. This ankle, becomes the knee, which becomes the hip. Same thing happens with pitchers.

Patriots 2001 - 2005 drafted exceptionally well on D, and also had a great core in place from the Parcells era.

Since then its been bad. That line from Holley's book is telling. Given that most Florida wide outs have been tremendous busts, that was telling. Running backs in the first round are ill-advised as a rule. Also, Meyer told him to take Dunlap over Cunningham. Where are all the Cunningham supporters?

 

[DaBruinz]

TBC the 7th round draft pick worked out well. Resigning him to a large multimillion at 4-5 million dollars a year was a mistake, he was never worth that kind of money.

Umm.. The Pats originally re-signed him to a 1 year- prove it deal in 2009. He was then signed to an extension that gave him a $6 million signing bonus and a 2010 salary of 800K. So, for 2 years of service, TBC got $7.62 million or so. Or an average of $3.81 million. Hardly what I'd call over-paying considering he put up 100 tackles and 15 sacks over those 2 seasons.

Ellis has very done little, and he's getting paid $4.5 million for this year.

Ellis has been ok when he's been out there. Spectacular? No. Again, 4.5 million is not a lot in this league anymore. Over-paid? Only if he doesn't do anything else the rest of the year.

Bodden was ok, not worth the contract they signed him to, he's being paid $4.5 million (thanks Mark Sanchez) this year to sit at home. They should have used that money to go towards signing Nnamdi this offseason.

Again with the facts. Bodden is being paid $2 million to stay at home. He was paid a bit over $1.94 million for his time with the team . Please look at what starting corners are making in this league. 4.5 million for a starting corner, which is what Bodden was when he signed the deal, was actually very cheap. As for signing Nhamdi, *ROFLMAO* The guy signed a 5yr/$60 million deal. With $25 million guaranteed. And that happened THIS year. Again, was BB supposed to have some sort of precognition to know that Asomougha would be available for that price 2 years ago when they signed Bodden to a deal that was 1/3 of that??

Meriweather was here for 4 years, he was not a solid player those 4 years. Barely played year one and awful in year four.

Meriweather was solid and played more than you are giving him credit for. Yes, Meriweather had his moments last year, but awful is a gross exaggeration.

Maroney did ok one year splitting time with Dillon, did not even come close to justifying the #1 pick spent on him. And you would ideally make note of immaturity issues and proclivity for drugs when researching the player before investing a draft pick on them.

Umm.. I have a news flash for you. Most 21 year olds are immature. How they develop after you've given them a job is based on the environment that he moved to. Not to mention whether or not there is an understanding about the amount of money one now has. As for the drugs, teams aren't allowed to go through these guys private lives with a fine tooth comb. And Maroney nor Andrews ever tested positive for drugs in college or with the Pats.

Brace (pick #40) is in year three now, has 21 tackles, (played in 22 out of a possible 39 games) has done very little, he's a lot closer to miss than to hit at this point. Butler has been cut. Chung has a good amount of room for improvement but even if you consider him a good pick , one out of three in the top 41 is not acceptable.

I said One hit, one miss and one that the book isn't finished on. But yeah, let's just ignore the fact that Curran claimed that they missed on on top 50 picks in 2008. And let's ignore the fact that Curran chose "Top 50" to purposely exclude Vollmer..

As for Brace. Injuries happen. To everyone. Last year, Brace showed the promise that many people felt he had until he was injured. And since when did TACKLES by a 3-4 DE become the SOLE criteria for how they are judged in their play?? Again, is BB supposed to have precognition about injuries???

BB ignored coaches and scouts who wanted no part of either Maroney or Chad Jackson, he chose them anyway, funny how that works.

Ahh.. the Parroting of Michael Holley. Love Holley's writing. But what you failed to acknowledge is that McDaniel's was the OC and his voice carried weight. You know what else? BB met with Jackson and, from all reports, Jackson kicked ass in the film review. It was on the field and with Brady that Jackson failed. And the torn ACL he suffered during the AFCCG game against the Colts.. But, Belichick is supposed to know that Jackson was going to tear his ACL..

What did Curran say that's inaccurate? That Bodden, TBC and Ellis didn't turn into good FA signings? That Brace and Butler haven't proven worthy of picks #40 and 41? Maroney? Meriweather? What's the issue here?

he got his facts wrong about the 2008 and 2009 draft picks. He was wrong about the 2007 draft.

The book is not completed on Ellis so to say that it was a bad signing is pre-mature.

Bodden and TBC were good FA signings to start with and were cut short before they became a detriment to the team.

The issue here is that you, like Curran, ignore facts.

 

[BradyManny]

Cheating on a girlfriend and sleeping around is probably common practice with a lot of college football players. I mean there are a lot of rumors that Brady was already with Giselle before he broke up with Brigette Monahan who was carrying his child. If true, does that mean that Belichick was stupid to keep Brady around?

I don't think anyone ever thought that was true, re: Brady, since their lives are so out in the open and it's well documented that's not how it went down. But you're right - that wouldn't have mattered either way.

For Spikes, I guess the more disconcerting thing is how he did it - by posting it on the internet, which shows poor judgement.

It's less the action than the general lack of common sense shown.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that went down before the NFL draft & season, it just didn't really blow-up until he was a Patriot.

It's still not enough to stop me from drafting a player I like, but it's just something to consider. Since then, he's made some other off the field bonehead decisions. In the context of his on the field play, it's not an issue.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Draft is NOT a crap shoot if you know what you're doing.

The Steelers, Packers and Ravens consistency draft well. Usually, because they concentrate on their core competency which is defense and supplement on offense. That used to be what the Pats did. Why after going offense in 2010 they went offense again in 2011 in a defensive draft is mind boggling. Fine you take Solder and maybe Ridley, but why Vereen and why an injured Dowling. And stop saying he only missed 5 games his senior year, he was always hurting at Virginia and in high school. He gutted it out but when your body is ravaged in some spots it affects your whole body because you overcompensate. This ankle, becomes the knee, which becomes the hip. Same thing happens with pitchers.

Patriots 2001 - 2005 drafted exceptionally well on D, and also had a great core in place from the Parcells era.

Since then its been bad. That line from Holley's book is telling. Given that most Florida wide outs have been tremendous busts, that was telling. Running backs in the first round are ill-advised as a rule. Also, Meyer told him to take Dunlap over Cunningham. Where are all the Cunningham supporters?

This shows that you just don't know what you are talking about. It's well know that the draft is a crap shoot.

Yes, the Steelers draft so well that they gave away Santonio Holmes even after he was a SB MVP. And Limas Sweed is just tearing up the league right?? That was Bruce Davis on the field the other day, yes? How are Mike Neal Justin Harrell doing as a startiers for the Packers? Pat Lee is such a great All-PRO CB... David Pittman, Yamon Figurs, Sergio Kindle and Chris Chester are just doing so awesome for the Ravens. [/sarcasm]

Clearly the Steelers, Ravens and Packers have had issues with high draft picks as well..

How do you know that Meyer told Belichick to take Dunlap over Cunningham? That is the first time anyone has mentioned that.

Also, Dowling was not ALWAYS hurt in college and in high school. That is just BS on your part..

 

[DaBruinz]

Injuries and lifestyle are HUGE parts of professional football. I'll agree that the former is pretty hard to predict, admittedly, because very few injuries are actually indicative of future injury problems.

But there is no excuse for not being able to tell the character of a guy like Maroney or Chad Jackson through scouting and through the interviews. Just like with any job, its the requirement of the person doing the hiring to know who that person is, and how they will function down the road.

Yet every team drafts players that bomb out because of character issues. It's not an exact science. People can and do lie and some have been doing it for so long and so well that it's nearly impossible to know.

I, ultimately, do blame Belichick and Pioli for not getting a better read on Maroney's character. Holley's new book even says the scouts warned them in both cases - and the receivers coach said he wouldn't coach Chad Jackson. The red flags were there. We didn't know it, but the front office had the information and ignored it in favor of heeding advice from the pairs respective college coaches.

The problem with King's excerpt from Holley's book is that we don't know WHY the scouts/coaches didn't want Maroney and Jackson. We also don't know what was said about other guys such as Jones-Drew, Holmes, or Jennings.

They interview these kids for that very reason - is football important to him; how will he handle money & fame; what are his priorities; does he get in his playbook, etc., etc.

Why did Daboll not want to coach Jackson? That's something that King doesn't give us information on from Holley's book. What it a personal dislike for the kid? Or did Daboll not want to have to put in the extra effort that would be required since it's well known that Jackson had trouble learning plays in college. But once he learned them, he performed them well. We don't know because King didn't give us more information than that. And, since the book isn't out yet, We're not able to say for certain. And Holley may not have elaborated on it.

Again, by all accounts, Jackson kicked ass in his film review with BELICHICK. For whatever reason, it didn't transfer onto the field.

One of the things that has been going on for years is players getting taught how to do in interviews. College students are taught that as well. I've hired people who have done well in the interview only to have to fire them because they turned out to be something they weren't. That's part of life.

People need to stop acting like Belichick doesn't accept responsibility for his actions. Everything I've seen about the man says that he DOES. But that once he has, he puts it behind him and moves on. He learns from them, but doesn't dwell..